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Originally posted by Akragon
I don't think there was anything wrong with Abraham, he was only following what his God wanted him to do...Just more evidence this isn't the true Father of creation in my humble opinion
Originally posted by Akragon
Technically as the story goes... an angel stopped him from killing his son... Not this God
In ancient times, was he aware of how low the infant mortality rate was? I doubt so, as the current amazing figures blinds him to the facts of during that in ancient times. It wasnt so during the times of our ancestors.
Do you claim that circumcision at 8 days kept the infant mortality rate lower? I doubt that to be the case given the infections that can occur due to an open wound in those days, not to mention the diseases, such as herpes, that the Moleh who performs the circumcision may transfer from licking the effected area, as a part of the ritual!
The Hebrew chronicles is the only reliable source that mankind had depended on for centuries. Today, we realized that they may be older civilisations, but then again, in Genesis, it had already been mentioned, proving the ancient book had not been a lie. So, which civilisation that exist today is older, based upon written analyzed records and not stones of imagination and speculation?
Many of the writing on the pyramid walls are older than the the Bible's books, and were there before Moses supposedly wrote the first 5 books of the Bible.
The Vedas have been found to be older than the texts that the Bible has been derived from. BTW, just because the Bible acknowledges the fact that there were societies that existed before the "biblical flood" doesn't make the book the definitive truth. The Bible is the Hebrew version of their conquests and belief systems. In no does the Bible proof it's own validity.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Interesting catch ... I missed that. So then technically God told Abraham to kill his son .. but then one of God's angels disobeyed God's Will and went and told Abraham not to kill the child. That's a whole new twist .. that angels in heaven would go against God's word and save humans from a psycho God or something ...
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Originally posted by Akragon
I don't think there was anything wrong with Abraham, he was only following what his God wanted him to do...Just more evidence this isn't the true Father of creation in my humble opinion
Okay ... that's interesting. Abraham was sane, in your opinion, and was following what 'God' told him to do. So, if Abraham wasn't hallucinating, who do you think was talking to Abraham? The real creator ... an imposter .. an evil spirit ... an alien .... something else?
If it was the real creator .. what does that say about him (it)??
Interesting catch ... I missed that. So then technically God told Abraham to kill his son .. but then one of God's angels disobeyed God's Will and went and told Abraham not to kill the child. That's a whole new twist .. that angels in heaven would go against God's word and save humans from a psycho God or something ...
But for the ignorant, ignorances are their only shield to fight realities, to foolishly condemn and deride without first attempting to comprehend in full what the scriptures and the central tenets meant.
Deuteronomy 21:10-14
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you."
Judges 21:20-23
"So they instructed the Benjamites, saying, "Go and hide in the vineyards and watch. When the girls of Shiloh come out to join in the dancing, then rush from the vineyards and each of you seize a wife from the girls of Shiloh and go to the land of Benjamin. When their fathers or brothers complain to us, we will say to them, 'Do us a kindness by helping them, because we did not get wives for them during the war, and you are innocent, since you did not give your daughters to them. So that is what the Benjamites did. While the girls were dancing, each man caught one and carried her off to be his wife. Then they returned to their inheritance and rebuilt the towns and settled in them."
1. How much do we know of ancient hygiene standards? There isn't much to know. But we do know today with our advances in science is that there is no harm with circumcision, and hygiene is a personal issue, not with the nanny secular state.
This study finds that approximately 117 neonatal circumcision-related deaths (9.01/100,000) occur annually in the United States
www.circumstitions.com...
46 And the day arrived when the sons of God came and placed themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with the sons of God before the Lord.
47 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? and Satan answered the Lord and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
48 And the Lord said to Satan, What is thy word to me concerning all the children of the earth? and Satan answered the Lord and said, I have seen all the children of the earth who serve thee and remember thee when they require anything from thee.
49 And when thou givest them the thing which they require from thee, they sit at their ease, and forsake thee and they remember thee no more.
50 Hast thou seen Abraham the son of Terah, who at first had no children, and he served thee and erected altars to thee wherever he came, and he brought up offerings upon them, and he proclaimed thy name continually to all the children of the earth.
51 And now that his son Isaac is born to him, he has forsaken thee, he has made a great feast for all the inhabitants of the land, and the Lord he has forgotten.
52 For amidst all that he has done he brought thee no offering; neither burnt offering nor peace offering, neither ox, lamb nor goat of all that he killed on the day that his son was weaned.
53 Even from the time of his son's birth till now, being thirty-seven years, he built no altar before thee, nor brought any offering to thee, for he saw that thou didst give what he requested before thee, and he therefore forsook thee.
54 And the Lord said to Satan, Hast thou thus considered my servant Abraham? for there is none like him upon earth, a perfect and an upright man before me, one that feareth God and avoideth evil; as I live, were I to say unto him, Bring up Isaac thy son before me, he would not withhold him from me, much more if I told him to bring up a burnt offering before me from his flock or herds.
55 And Satan answered the Lord and said, Speak then now unto Abraham as thou hast said, and thou wilt see whether he will not this day transgress and cast aside thy words.
www.sacred-texts.com...
65 And Abraham bound his son Isaac, and placed him on the altar upon the wood, and Isaac stretched forth his neck upon the altar before his father, and Abraham stretched forth his hand to take the knife to slay his son as a burnt offering before the Lord.
66 At that time the angels of mercy came before the Lord and spake to him concerning Isaac, saying,
67 0 Lord, thou art a merciful and compassionate King over all that thou hast created in heaven and in earth, and thou supportest them all; give therefore ransom and redemption instead of thy servant Isaac, and pity and have compassion upon Abraham and Isaac his son, who are this day performing thy commands.
68 Hast thou seen, O Lord, how Isaac the son of Abraham thy servant is bound down to the slaughter like an animal? now therefore let thy pity be roused for them, O Lord.
69 At that time the Lord appeared unto Abraham, and called to him, from heaven, and said unto him, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him, for now I know that thou fearest God in performing this act, and in not withholding thy son, thine only son, from me.
70 And Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw, and behold, a ram was caught in a thicket by his horns; that was the ram which the Lord God had created in the earth in the day that he made earth and heaven.
71 For the Lord had prepared this ram from that day, to be a burnt offering instead of Isaac.
72 And this ram was advancing to Abraham when Satan caught hold of him and entangled his horns in the thicket, that he might not advance to Abraham, in order that Abraham might slay his son.
73 And Abraham, seeing the ram advancing to him and Satan withholding him, fetched him and brought him before the altar, and he loosened his son Isaac from his binding, and he put the ram in his stead, and Abraham killed the ram upon the altar, and brought it up as an offering in the place of his son Isaac.
www.sacred-texts.com...
86 And behold, Satan came to Sarah in the shape of an old man, and he came and stood before her, and he said unto her, I spoke falsely unto thee, for Abraham did not kill his son and he is not dead; and when she heard the word her joy was so exceedingly violent on account of her son, that her soul went out through joy; she died and was gathered to her people.
"When El Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. For Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted inheritance."
Dueteronomy 32:26
I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men: 27 Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, and lest they should say, Our hand is high, and the Lord hath not done all this.
39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. 40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
1. Psalm of Asaph. God stands in the council of the gods; he judges among the gods.
2. How long will you judge unjustly, and show preference to the wicked? Selah.
3. Judge the poor and the orphans; do righteousness to the afflicted and dispossessed.
4. Deliver the poor and oppressed; save them from the hand of the evil. 5. They do not know and they have no understanding; they walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6. I said, “You are gods, and children of Elyon, every one of you.”
7. But you will die like mortals, and fall like one of the princes.
8. Rise up, O God, and judge the earth, for you have inherited all the nations
And the reason why the hebrews had to do what they did, as explained in the bible, was that those men in the affected cities were no longer behaving as rational beings, but beasts, full of hate, hurt and harm to all, and those had to be exterminated.
Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by windword
1. You cannot pick and choose where religion is concerned. Either you believe, or you don't. No twisting around it or only mis-interpretations will abound.
You admitted to your self belief in other gods as being more true, and that is your right, but you have no right to criticize another's belief in their version of another, which you ignorantly thought is different.
The scriptures written in that book is sworn and testified as the words of the Almighty and truth. Thus, either you accept it as a whole or you do not. You cannot claim that the ancient hebrews slaughtered an ancient beast race if you do not even believe that book is true. That would only make you look illogical if not irrational. Why bother about something that you don't even believe in it?
And worse, what do you actually believe in? Yourself as god?
2. I can understand the doubts that that book may had been written or re-written and even written with mis-interpretations, espacially over contextual issues that athiests and the moronic love to pick and choose, to illustrate their stupidity.. It is your kind's free will and choice.
But do not deny that most of the central tenets in that book had helped us through its relevancy over moral and ethical guidelines, even today, to progress and evolve.
As to the behaviour of the descendants of the Patriach Abraham of today - jews, muslims and christians, - they had not and did not use biblical laws to behave as a society now, but with full human rights as laid out by the UN Charter, and abide by the secular RULE OF LAW majority of nations follow to co-exist in peace, except for the few tyrannical and radical Islamists terrorists state that exists today.
3. Quit grabbing at straws, and just admit the ground you are standing on is untenable. There is no harm in admitting ignorances, but if such continued ignorances continues on, your credibility here on ATS will no longer count for much, not that it amounted to much anyway here, for all are anonymous.
It is your sanity that I am more concern about, as even though anonymous here, you bring back that mentality to the real world. Great if you begin the process for rational critical thinking, but harmful to yourself and others if you continue to find comfort in delusions and stupidity.
What is your agenda?
Unfortunately, people of your kind are few, and even fewer anti-semites such as you. You chosed to blame the present day Israelis for their defense of Israel, but you had not sought to mention the deprivations beasts had done to BOTH jews and muslims in the middle east and palestine.
It is true that there are discrepancies in those books, and some may wonder at the differences, but let us this modern generation BE AWARE that the authors of the scriptures were not educated as us, nor were they educated scribes/authors by profession, or went to writing schools to learn the best ways to put messages across with clarity, etc.
They were only ordinary men, men whom other humans can relate to, to understand and consider the scriptures they published, often in their own words and experiences. Our Messiah's disciples were all ordinary men - such as fishermen and workers, earning an honest living and the prophet Muhammad was only but a trader and sheep herder, whose words were recorded by equally simple men of his time, and later transcribed by the more educated scribes.
Atheists such as you did not gain moral and ethical guidelines out of the blue.
You are NOT god, as your implied in your post of being one. Your kind were not born out of your mothers' wombs comprehending civilisation, moral and ethical interactions with others. It was taught to you by your parents and teachers, they from their parents and teachers, and shaped by your good friends and experiences in life on what works and what does not, which if you analysed it honestly, resembles much of what had been taught in the Holy Books.
We all had only been worshipping the same Creator, who loved us all, including you, and through our Patriach Abraham and the central tenets taught by divine teachers sent throughout the course of over civilisation., such will be the common ground for unity with free will as gifted, to worship Him as in the manner we had been taught, and more critically, to progress and evolve our race with less misunderstanding and pain, and fulfil our destiny to the stars.