Neanderthals were more advanced than us. THEY were one of the megalithic cultures of the remote past

reply to post by Ghost375


here George...sources...though a little on your part before you insult people for THEORIZING would be nice..

Neanderthal Brains

A Neanderthal brain volume equals or exceeds modern human dimensions (Deacon, 1994), ranging from about 1200_1750 ml, and thus on the average about 100 ml larger than modern humans (Stringer and Gamble, 1993). Holloway (1985: 320) has stated "I believe the Neanderthal brain was fully Homo, with no essential differences in its organization compared to our own."

Although there is no direct correlation between brain size and intelligence, Neanderthal brain volume certainly does not support views that argue for an evolutionary expansion of "Hominid" brains.

www.icr.org...

and

if you want to argue over thier intelligence compared to ours lets see how this article inspired by research of well respected and published scientists suits your disgust for open thought.

New Evidence Debunks 'Stupid' Neanderthal Myth

Aug. 26, 2008 — Research by UK and American scientists has struck another blow to the theory that Neanderthals (Homo neanderthalensis) became extinct because they were less intelligent than our ancestors (Homo sapiens). The research team has shown that early stone tool technologies developed by our species, Homo sapiens, were no more efficient than those used by Neanderthals.

Published in the Journal of Human Evolution, their discovery debunks a textbook belief held by archaeologists for more than 60 years.

The team from the University of Exeter, Southern Methodist University, Texas State University, and the Think Computer Corporation, spent three years flintknapping (producing stone tools). They recreated stone tools known as 'flakes,' which were wider tools originally used by both Neanderthals and Homo sapiens, and 'blades,' a narrower stone tool later adopted by Homo sapiens. Archaeologists often use the development of stone blades and their assumed efficiency as proof of Homo sapiens' superior intellect. To test this, the team analysed the data to compare the number of tools produced, how much cutting-edge was created, the efficiency in consuming raw material and how long tools lasted.

Blades were first produced by Homo sapiens during their colonization of Europe from Africa approximately 40,000 years ago. This has traditionally been thought to be a dramatic technological advance, helping Homo sapiens out-compete, and eventually eradicate, their Stone Age cousins. Yet when the research team analysed their data there was no statistical difference between the efficiency of the two technologies. In fact, their findings showed that in some respects the flakes favoured by Neanderthals were more efficient than the blades adopted by Homo sapiens.

Many long-held beliefs suggesting why the Neanderthals went extinct have been debunked in recent years. Research has already shown that Neanderthals were as good at hunting as Homo sapiens and had no clear disadvantage in their ability to communicate. Now, these latest findings add to the growing evidence that Neanderthals were no less intelligent than our ancestors.

Metin Eren, an MA Experimental Archaeology student at the University of Exeter and lead author on the paper comments: "Our research disputes a major pillar holding up the long-held assumption that Homo sapiens were more advanced than Neanderthals. It is time for archaeologists to start searching for other reasons why Neanderthals became extinct while our ancestors survived. Technologically speaking, there is no clear advantage of one tool over the other. When we think of Neanderthals, we need to stop thinking in terms of 'stupid' or 'less advanced' and more in terms of 'different.'"

www.sciencedaily.com...


ALSO
Like I said it is pretty much still in the air and there are as many respected scientists and specialists that say size does matter as those that say it doesnt.

Contributor
Charles W. Bryant Co-Host, Stuff You Should Know

Depending on whom you ask, the brain's size has everything or nothing to do with the intelligence of an animal. Some scientists contend that a bigger brain means a smarter animal. As evidence, they might point out that humans have larger brains than our primate cousins. That additional brain tissue could be correlated with a higher capacity to perform mental tasks associated with intelligence, like thinking, deducing and, of course, remembering the things you've learned and deduced.

There is some consistency in the animal kingdom between brain size and intelligence, but just because a rhinoceros has a larger brain than a lab rat doesn't mean it's more intelligent. It's simply a larger animal. Because of this reality, scientists have devised a brain-to-body-size ratio curve that allows them to account for overall size when measuring the brain and intelligence.

Other scientists argue that the physical size of the brain isn't what's important, but that intelligence lies in the number and firing power of the neurons. Physicist Albert Einstein is one example often used to support this hypothesis, as his brain was average in volume and weight, but more densely packed with neurons

curiosity.discovery.com...

AND
did you even bother to look at this post?
reply to post by zedVSzardoz

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
well thanks for the responses.

For everyone asking for sources, I DID provide a study done on all of the great apes and by and far the ones with larger brains were found to be more intelligent correlating the larger brain size to body size belief...

Thanks for this thread. I really enjoyed the first two pages. I must have poor reading skills, but I thought you pretty much said upfront that this was just your theory, based on years of reading and interest. Some people don't seem to know how to discuss, or even disagree, without being accusatory, demanding, and putting someone else down. I guess it may be part of our society now where everyone looks at everyone else as an opponent, or thinks they have to somehow prove they are the best.

I don't know if your theories are right, or even close to right, but I do find them very interesting. Definitely food for thought.

reply to post by fleabit



They were smart enough to adapt and survive where we could not and employed many advanced tactics for survival as well as developed as complex tools as us, and in some cases more advanced.

They actually mined the flint they used. they didnt just pick it up and smash it without care.

They studied the material and chose where to hit it so it would break the way they wanted. We didnt really do that. Thats why we now have to say that in some cases their flint tools were better than ours.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz

reply to post by Kissplash


hi,

You are right. There is no way to REALLY know without looking at an actual neanderthal brain. THAT is also a reason not to assume they are dumber than us while ignoring the piling PROOF that says differently. They had everything we attribute to an advanced culture like homo-sapiens.

if took all neanderthal artifacts and saw them with a "they are homo-sapien tools", we would praise them for their intelligence. We seem to have a knee jerk reaction when thinking about any group that came before us that places them instinctively behind us on our neat little chart of progress known as the evolutionary time line. We even project our fantastic intellect into the future imagining a homo-superior, which would undoubtedly be better and smarter then us........just because its next...

I dont think they are Nephilim either. I liked what they guy wrote though. He also made an excellent break down of neanderthals in general.

reply to post by Jubosh


agree on all counts.

I dont know how to make a cell phone, or like even fix a car without just changing parts I would get from a store.

That is basically what I am saying. If I saw a tribe eating, being warm, and like NOT dying of exposure, I would copy them or try to become one of them...

reply to post by ProfessorAlfB


THANK YOU

for such a great summary of neanderthals and proto man.

I enjoyed it very much. I am wondering though, I just presented evidence just a couple posts above this one which suggests that neanderthal MAY have used projectiles. They had more wear and tear in one arm over another and showed signs of damage from repeated motions similar to that a base ball player may suffer (pitcher)

Also, Neanderthals developed much of the same technology as homo-sapiens and as it has come to be known in Italy for example, independantly from Homo-sapiens. Would the cultural exchange be entirely one sided?

What I mean is, if from their supposed inferior intellect and mental capacity, wouldnt the nonzero-sumness of the exchanges between neanderthals and other groups not lead to them becoming isolated instead of them developing stronger bonds with other groups of proto man due to their inability to provide useful and valuable information in exchange for the same?

Why would WE teach them if they could not teach us?

Thanks in advance....

reply to post by SoulVisions


I was very intreeged by the carbon dating issue. I have heard similar cries of foul before but didnt really sit withit as I did with this article.

I ultimately disagree with the theory of neanderthal being a sort of hybrid. I think if they were, they would be infertile. Since they are not I do not agree with it....

BUT

it is fantastically written and like I have said several times, I enjoyed the break down very much. It also goes along with a similar belief of mine which entails that ancient man, with complex society, knew of the earlier versions of us and had actual names or "identities" for them that we think refer to groups of fellow homo-sapiens since the others have supposedly all died off by then. What the bible calls "nations of men" when referring to a foreign group NOT chosen by God....as alluded to on the first page of this thread.

Thanks man.

reply to post by Murgatroid


I agree that there is a sort of stigma on this subject. I could guess why the Egyptian government or others would want to keep their claim to cultural sites that may have been built by others. Also as a species we dont want to even contemplate being inferior to anything.

We have placed ourselves at the pinnacle of evolution in a system we made. I do believe in evolution. I just dont think it is nice and neat with us at the crown of it. We assume it is from less to better in terms of adaptability and intelligence as well as complexity. We dont account for flukes unless they are dead ends, and we dont account for randomness of better and stronger becoming unsustainable for what ever reason.

there is allot of bias. Science is becoming a new sort of religion you better not dare question unless you are a science God, and then you better careful....how dare you be so brazen or dumb.....

I see what you are saying. I dont BLAME academia or formal science since it is the source of all we know and they arent that shabby.

I just dont like how when certain celebrity scientists say something all findings are looked for to prove thier theory, instead of letting them speak for themselves.....

We look to prove ourselves right allot of times instead of learning where and how we got it wrong...

reply to post by pacifier2012


simple answer....

no...not even close

reply to post by Hanslune


like I explained, I was providing mythological beliefs from geographically and chronologically separated cultures in an effort to see if a cross disciplinary approach using myth and folklore coupled with what facts we can prove might then reveal any insight or clues that ancient people had concerning this subject and my theory.

Stichen´s translations are complete and easily available, that is why he was included. They are SIMILAR in certain aspects of the stories to accepted translations. THAT is why I TOOK artistic license like I said I would and implied HE did as well, to summarize the story that ancient Sumerians knew. The reason why I and probably HE did is because we are trying to transcend vast cultural differences and spans of time that would make it impossible to do so without bridging the gap somehow...

describe, using words from ancient Akkadian, to refer to a mechanical lighter, or car... or in ancient Hebrew...if you can.

The off topic aspect was the validating Stichen as a CREDIBLE SOURCE. People are free to disagree with his choice of words when translating. I know I do in my amateur attempt at it. That said, those that say he made stuff up or could not even read it are either being foolish or disingenuous. Just LOOK UP his credentials and his experience as well with collaborators over the years....

Originally posted by pacifier2012
Yet they no longer exist.

Does not that explain all we need to know about them?

But they still exist, within all modern humans!
Neanaderthals beat extinction by inter-breeding with Cro-Magnon man, thus allowing their gentic heritage to live on within us.

Originally posted by SoulVisions
reply to post by Kissplash

 

When I say "nephilum" here, I am speaking only of the large men borne. Not the fallen angels, that had either materialized, or inhabited their (for the sake of argument) possible creations.

Here's a theory I postulate. Please read on through it. I have my own beliefs, but I feel that this would be an interesting subject to discuss related to this forum topic. Have a look.

I dunno. It's all guesswork. I could easily say that perhaps, the demons created the Neanderthals as a life-form similar to humans that didn't have the "fences" (so-to-speak). As in, they functioned like humans, but due to specific trait/genetic differences, they were easy to possess/control/influence.

Perhaps neanderthals had no spiritual defenses, even created specifically for this reason. A race of "men" imperfect compared to Creator's mankind. The demon-borne neanderthals created with the sole purpose of being controlled by spirits unquestionably, and their heirs then to inherit traits that they could use to subjugate the humans already on the earth. From this point in time then, they (the wicked "men") slept with the human women, and bore the corrupted Nephilim/Giants that then ... well, you get the idea.

Seeing as how the Demons/angels were around during the time that humans were created, they most likely knew how to exploit genes in a way to enhance strength, size, gigantism, ferocity, and other things. If something like an army of these came into your town taking your women or killing everyone they saw, it's likely many would subjugate themselves due to fear and worship them, for fear of their own lives. Perhaps even act as slaves, also.

As for why did an "advanced race" need hammers and the like.. Ten thousand years from now, archeologists will find much the same regarding us, also. Stone/steel tool, and ruins of buildings, possibly just stone foundations... anything that erosion and the weather hasn't destroyed. Everything else, like electronics, will have rusted away centuries prior.

Who knows?

As for that article however, the notes about the water vapor layer above the earth, along with the scriptural reference to God separating the atmosphere with "the water above" and "the water below," it makes a lot of sense as to how the great historical deluge came about. (Most of this information was found in the footnotes of his report.)

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

This article link explains why carbon dating material more than 10,000 years old, does not really work anymore.

In depth, it goes over what C12 and C14 carbon saturation means, and how it ends up showing that neanderthals were not some 100,000 years old. Rather, they were shown to exist during a time after man's creation, but prior to the great historical worldwide deluge.

I HIGHLY recommend reading this report. There are many excellent findings backed by historical records, bible scriptures, and if that doesn't interest you, then science and archeological finds, themselves.

Again, it is an amazingly well-written article.

edit on 23-1-2013 by SoulVisions because: (no reason given)

I see no benefit whatsover of bringing religion into genuine scientific discussions of pre history, especially when you start throwing around passages from the Christian bible!
So much of its original Hebrew and pre-Hebrew content was literally lost in translation over time that all that is left can be said to be a work of pure fiction, with a rare inclusion of oral myth and legend thrown in. There may be a tiny bit of truth thrown in too but its impossibe to know how much.
All one can say is that the Bible should never, and can never, be taken as gospell. No pun intended!
Besides if you want to go down that route then your discussians MUST include the fact of worldwide extra-terrestrial contact with man in the ancient past, as recorded not only in the Bible, but in even older texts such as the Mahabharata and pictorially in Australia and in the many artifacts unearthed in ancient South American sites.
Yes, I am saying that "God" was simply any alien who decided to fly down to Earth in their awesome Vimanas (flying saucers) to have contact with primative ancient man. Once you factor in some of the obvious technological contributions they made to human pre-history it all starts to make sense. Take the giant worked stone blocks in the ancient city of Baalbek in Lebanon (later called Heliopolis, under the Romans) for instance, some weighing up to 2000 tonnes. Scholars cannot tell you how they were transported or how they were lifted into place in their raised horizontal positions...Even today we don't have the technology to do this!...Only ET's would have had this technology.
Your Nephallims, if they ever existed, were probably alien in origin too.

reply to post by seamus


Yeah this has always fascinated me.

The structures off of Cuba are not entirely explained either. The networks of what seem like roads and the now (I think) debunked pyramid complex. I have read theories that during the first ice age much of the land around the Caribbean was connected to south America much like we know how the UK was connected to Europe around the same time.

The Olmec have been stated by archeologists NATIVE to area to have been constructing as far back as 5000 BC.

The fact that Roman and Greek ports and parts cities have eluded us even up to now is telling to say the least of how little we look to the oceans for clues of lost structures and civilizations that could have had the entirety of their construction efforts and so their very existence lost to us.

IMO we have only just begun using satellites to track structures previously unknown of to us in dense jungles. We have not even seen everything above water level. What remains below will arguably be OLDER since the timeline for rising water lines goes back into the remote past where we dont have the luxury of written history or oral tradition.

The land masses lost to southern India have just begun to reveal their treasures, and we are facing the increasing reality that our "timeline" is far from accurate. It is an estimation based on available data.

Even written history from antiquity does not clarify when a leader or conquerors changed history to his version as was done in Egypt under various rulers, or in south America even before the Spanish arrived.

India and its remote past IMO is such a puzzle for its contributions to the world that I dont even know where to begin. There are linguists and scholars that have argued that even ancient Chinese was derived from a form Sanskrit so what a extremely interesting and ancient culture like that of ancient India has to offer is truly a treasure trove that goes unnoticed really.

Taking into account things like the similarity of the I-ching (book of changes) to other works like those of the Cabala for example that MUST have been influenced by other unknown traditions we are left with SO MANY more questions than answers when trying to say this came from that or these people did or did not do such and such.

That is why I say that we must be as skeptical of "accepted" history and archeology as we are of other nonsensical ideas and explanations.

I need to catch up on the Mahatma habra and other such works. it has been a while since I just skimmed them. maybe later I will do another comparison with them and perhaps Chinese myth I am more familiar with to see if any mention of races of man show up...

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by fleabit

 

They were smart enough to adapt and survive where we could not and employed many advanced tactics for survival as well as developed as complex tools as us, and in some cases more advanced.

They actually mined the flint they used. they didnt just pick it up and smash it without care.

They studied the material and chose where to hit it so it would break the way they wanted. We didnt really do that. Thats why we now have to say that in some cases their flint tools were better than ours.
reply to post by zedVSzardoz

 

edit on 23-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

Actually Neanderthal finds show that their stone tools were pretty basic in their design and production compared to Cro-Magnon tool finds, and they never managed to reach the highly sophisticated level of stone working that Cro-Magnon man achieved in his stone tools.
So just because they had bigger brains, it does not necessarily mean they were any smarter than us!
Perhaps what we should be asking is, what they were using all that extra brain matter for?
Perhaps they were better problem solvers and inventors than the Cro-Magnons but once they found a solution that worked they stubbonly stuck to it (In the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset), whereas Cro-Magnon man continually sought to improve his level of technology and this was obvious in his stone tool work.
Neanderthals were using stone tools long before they made contact with other human species so it obvious that were were certainly inventive and that Cro-Magnon man may have copied their tools and then developed them further.
One can think of it this way...The British have always been an extremely inventive people, practically inventing everything that is important to modern civilisation today, but it is the Japanese that took many of these basic British ideas and then developed them to a much higher technological level.

reply to post by Phantasm



hey,

1st question: Do you think it's possible that Cro-magnons & Neanderthals were Homo-Sapien's attempt at cloning? I mean if there was a high advanced human (homo-sapien) civilization might they have advanced to a point where they tried cloning or creating a superior species...or perhaps it was for a more diabolical reason like using cro-magnons and/or neanderthals for mining gold?

There is countless instances of folklore and myth saying that the "Gods" made mankind. That there were several attempts and that each was progressively worse than the first version that was near perfect and lived in harmony with the gods but had varying flaws which caused them to fall from grace. Or there was direct interference from other Gods or entities out of hate, spite, and jealousy. I think the most controversial and most revealing is that of the Sumerians and Babylonians. Their origin story for man says just what you are asking here. There are others though that imply an artificial touch to humanity by combining an animal and the essence of the gods...(DNA?)

Also South American gods usually have to mix their blood after each age with the bones of the last one to bring them to life in their creation myths. The result is different sized people from the different sized bones. Perhaps this is trying to explain different species of man they may have coexisted with.

2nd question: Do orangutans and chimpanzees "realize and recognize" that humans look a lot like them? Head, eyes, nose, ears, mouth, etc. What's holding them back from being as smart as us...smaller brains, missing DNA?

We have what some have speculated as evidence of what you asked in the last question. Humans have 46 chromosomes, while the great apes have 48. We have a fusion of the last 2 pairs. That is not seen anywhere in nature. Basically it is a cris-cross of 4 of chromosomes making just 2 weird chromosomes. That is the biggest difference.

Whether they have a gnosis of their difference to us is unknown for the most part though there is a wealth of studies done in recent years that suggest just that. Their social concept of "group" may not be limited to "race" or species. Like the way a wolf pack can assimilate a human, or another species can care for the young of its predator in some cases. I would GUESS that they are conscious of it, but it is not as important to them as it is to us. They do understand that food goes into our mouth like them, that we have hands like them, ect...similar parts and functions.....

3rd question: As an advanced civilization WE created a DOOMSDAY SEED VAULT and placed it in a frigid and desolate area to withstand some global extinction-like event. Wouldn't an advanced civilization from ancient times have prepared for catastrophe on a global scale and construct their own DOOMSDAY SEED/KNOWLEDGE VAULT? Maybe they did and we just haven't found it yet? Maybe it's buried under permafrost. They would've had to construct their vault in a place deemed survivable geologically.

Again the Sumerian account says just that. They recorded all they had achieved and all of their story and hid it under a mountain they made. Some have said it is the chambers under the pyramid (cave system), or the chamber under the paw of the sphinx. Also there has been lots of speculation to a hall of records in South America consisting of cave systems as well.

In total there are supposed to be 3 of these vaults made in the antediluvian times just before the great flood every culture tells of.

On a side note, we should look for a common place that could have dispersed a group of people globally which did flood, instead of looking for evidence of a world wide flood.

Perhaps the flooding (creation of the Mediterranean seemed like a world wide flood to the people living there.....

Also worth mentioning is that at some point myths changed drastically when the female creator gods were replaced by male creator gods. It has been attributed to our leaving the nomadic life and establishing cities where roles then favored the male fathers over the previously supremely important mother of the family who was similar to nature in giving life.

Also myths of Creator gods making man sometimes explain it as that they did so by accident. A trick or happen-stance causes humanity to form the flesh of a male creator god. An armpit, or other vaginal looking area allows us to emerge form the body of the male God. The bone or rib being used to create us is repeated allot. To the Greeks rocks /stones of the old world were used mixed with a gods blood...

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by seamus

 

Yeah this has always fascinated me.

The structures off of Cuba are not entirely explained either. The networks of what seem like roads and the now (I think) debunked pyramid complex. I have read theories that during the first ice age much of the land around the Caribbean was connected to south America much like we know how the UK was connected to Europe around the same time.

The Olmec have been stated by archeologists NATIVE to area to have been constructing as far back as 5000 BC.

The fact that Roman and Greek ports and parts cities have eluded us even up to now is telling to say the least of how little we look to the oceans for clues of lost structures and civilizations that could have had their entirety of construction efforts and so their very existence lost to us.

IMO we have only just begun using satellites to track structures previously unknown of to us in dense jungles. We have not even seen everything above water level. What remains below will arguably be OLDER since the timeline for rising water lines goes back into the remote past where we dont have the luxury of written history or oral tradition.

The land masses lost to southern India have just begun to reveal their treasures, and we are facing the increasing reality that our "timeline" is far from accurate. It is an estimation based on available data.

Even written history from antiquity does not clarify when a leader or conquerors changed history to his version as was done in Egypt under various rulers, or in south America even before the Spanish arrived.

India and its remote past IMO is such a puzzle for its contributions to the world that I dont even know where to begin. There are linguists and scholars that have argued that even ancient Chinese was derived from a form Sanskrit so what a extremely interesting and ancient culture like that of ancient India has to offer is truly a treasure trove that goes unnoticed really.

Taking into account things like the similarity of the I-ching (book of changes) to other works like those of the Cabala for example that MUST have been influenced by other unknown traditions we are left with SO MANY more questions than answers when trying to say this came from that or these people did or did not do such and such.

That is why I say that we must be as skeptical of "accepted" history and archeology as we are of other nonsensical ideas and explanations.

I need to catch up on the Mahatma habra and other such works. it has been a while since I just skimmed them. maybe later I will do another comparison with them and perhaps Chinese myth I am more familiar with to see if any mention of races of man show up...

Ask any Egyptologist about the weathering on the Sphinx and they will quickly make their excuses and leave the room, as they still don't have any rational explanation for it.
Which just goes to show just how little "the experts" actually know!
It is obvious that the only time in the past when there would have been sufficient rain and flowing water to account for its weathering on the now highly dessicated Giza Plataeu, was at the end of the last ice age, around 12,000 years ago.
And low and behold, in exactly 10,800 BC the Sphinx, essentially a giant stone Lion, would have been looking directly towards its Astrological place in the heavens, the constallation of Leo!
To me the connection is obvious proof that the Spinx is far older than the Egyptologists think it is, and it probably pre-dates the Pyramids by many thousands of years.
It is also obvious that the current head of the Sphinx is way out of proportion to the rest of the body...My conclusion is that it orginally had the head of a Lion and it would have been in perfect proportion the rest of the Lions body but at some later date the head was recarved into the likeness of one of the Pharoes to satisfy their ego. These is also the possibility that the original Lions head may also have been so badly eroded by Pharonic times that repair was impossible so that recarving the head simply seemed a sensible idea.
They have recently discovered a submerged city lying beneath the waters of Lake Titicaca in Bolivia, the worlds highest navigable lake, that might apparently date back over 13,000 years.
If you go by ancient astronomical alignments, like with the Sphinx, nearby Tiwanaku also dates back this far, if not even older.
The problem is, this is seen as psuedo-science by the so called Experts, and rather than acknowledge the relevence of this important new evidence, they choose to ignore it instead. They prefer to bury their metophorical Ostrich heads in their out of date text books, so to speak.

reply to post by ProfessorAlfB


How then do you explain recent findings which suggest the same quality if not better in some cases, of tools used by them than even homo-sapiens as I presented earlier?

Also things like flutes, those tools used in trapping birds and fish, as well as the homes they built?

That is not even mentioning their ability to work wood. Though there has been little found of their wood working and wooden tools for obvious reasons, testing on their stone tools they would have used to shape wood show that they did engage in ALLOT of woodworking.

?

Archaeologists have recreated the stone tools made by Neanderthals, and found them to be as useful and efficient as those made by the earliest Homo sapiens, who survived while the Neanderthal line died off. The new research is one of many recent studies claiming that Neanderthals weren’t just dumb brutes that were out-competed by early humans. Says lead researcher Metin Eren: “When we think of Neanderthals we need to stop thinking in terms of ‘stupid’ or ‘less advanced’ and more in terms of ‘different’”

blogs.discovermagazine.com...

Disc flakes, Eren’s team discovered, waste less rock, suffer fewer breaks and have more cutting edge for their mass compared with straight blades. “We found that with every respect the Neanderthal technology was just as efficient, if not slightly more efficient, than modern Homo sapiens blade technology,” he says. “This was a very strong indication that Neanderthals did not go extinct because of any cognitive inferiority”

www.newscientist.com...

reply to post by ProfessorAlfB


agree 100%.

Dont know what else to add to that. 100% spot on and true.....STAR!!! lol

reply to post by SoulVisions


I wanted to get to your post when I had a little more time since you touched on something I have been considering since 2007. It is the main reason I included the other article that had the similar theory of Neanderthals being much more advanced at some point, but IMO failed to correlate the Nephilim connection.

Anyways, the waters of heaven above the waters of earth. I intended to remake a thread I had made under another profile when I first joined ATS that speculated about the earths early atmosphere. I will instead just post the revised content here.

basically I argue that the early earth had a sort of hyperbolic chamber effect on all life. The reason why plants and animals were so large in prehistoric times was because of a highly oxygen rich and pressurized atmosphere.

I will provide what material I can scrounge up that I can remember but first I want to just expand a little on this sister theory I have had about the remote past.

A hyperbolic chamber is the capsule you go into to regulate the oxygen in your blood when you go diving to equalize the pressure of your body when you rise too quickly after diving too deeply. It is also employed in beauty salons and other health spa type places since it has been discovered that it has beneficial effects on our body.

They are:
1. Your body can absorb oxygen more efficiently and so your organs can function MUCH better.
2. You heal very quickly. Burn victims sometimes use them to speed up skin growth.
3. Toxicity in blood is reduced due to your liver and kidneys functioning at over 100%
these among others I cant remember.

Basically our bodies and that of ALL life on earth are geared to function better in a higher oxygen content as well as highly pressurized atmosphere.

You may see where I am going with this.I argue that this protective layer of water vapor had an effect on oxygen levels and possibly also contributed to its more pressurized state, allowing life on earth to exert less energy breathing, allowing for them to grow much bigger.

Even if the effects were limited to plants or animals respectively, adaptation would make the other grow to compete to eat or avoid being eaten and so stay alive.

I argue that this led to longer life spans, not just animals but what ever hominids may have enjoyed this enhanced atmosphere. That as this protective layer dissipated that their offspring lived shorter life spans until leveling out at current max ages. The reduced toxicity of their blood, enhanced healing qualities as well as the excess energy they had from not needing to breath allowed MUCH larger life to flourish and do so for longer.

IMO The giants spoken of in almost all folklore and myth, of which findings have been spun along side hoaxes are a throw backs and left overs of species of man that lived during this era.

They got progressively smaller as this layer failed, they suddenly would have a hard time breathing and so doing just about everything else. Only the smaller of them would reproduce until their size plummeted to current sizes. I also say that life spans would have slowly reduced, which goes hand in hand with biblical accounts of generations living less and less time. IMO they are reconstructing older generations that they may not have been directly related to but knew of their being the progenitors of their tribes. The thing is, they were their progenitors but also all of mans....so the 900 years life spans, followed by 700, then something like 400, ect..are explained by this.

Also, climate change would accompany such a wide spread and epic event.

Ok, that is the gist of it. before everyone asks for a source to all this, Give me some time to supply the supporting data as I am reconstructing this from memory, but KNOW the source material is out there. I just wanted to get this all down before I went looking for it. Thank you in advance.

EDIT:
Also, could this firmament be the layer of atmosphere the Annunaki tried to heal? perhaps it was not in some distant "Niburu", maybe it WAS earth. Maybe Niburu is a place on earth, not some planet....and the characteristics described of it were in fact those of earth long ago....? I know, but if you think aliens did it all, how far off is this then...?...lol

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


ok this is going to be much easier than I thought. As it turns out I am not as original as I would like to think.


what is a hyperbolic chamber..

A hyperbaric chamber uses pumps and valves to recreate the greater air pressure experienced by divers under water. Pure oxygen or other saturated gas mixtures may also be pumped into a hyperbaric chamber for medical purposes.

The normal atmospheric condition we all experience on dry land is called normobaric pressure. When divers go under the surface, the pressure of the water and air above them increases with depth. This additional pressure causes several changes in the way a human body processes blood gases like oxygen and nitrogen.

If a diver surfaces too quickly, the gases in the blood can convert to bubbles and cause a very dangerous situation called the bends, or decompression sickness. A hyperbaric chamber, sometimes called a decompression chamber, can return a diver to the same depth and pressure experienced during the actual dive. This procedure in the hyperbaric chamber allows the nitrogen in the bubbles to escape naturally, leaving only absorbable oxygen.

A hyperbaric chamber's usefulness is not limited to decompression sickness. Certain diseases, such as diabetes or anemia, do not allow blood cells to become supersaturated with oxygen at normal atmospheric pressure. By placing the patient in a hyperbaric chamber and administering pure oxygen, doctors can increase the amount of oxygen cells carried off through the bloodstream. Patients suffering from gas gangrene or flesh-eating bacterial infections can also benefit from the hyperbaric chamber's increased atmospheric pressure.

In the United States, hyperbaric chamber treatments are recognized as safe and effective for a handful of medical conditions. European and Scandinavian countries have approved a wider use of the hyperbaric chamber, especially when used in conjunction with oxygen therapies. Treatment in a commercial hyperbaric chamber can be fairly expensive, and some divers with compression sickness can require dozens of treatments. Medical professionals are still debating any other benefits derived from hyperbaric chamber treatments, including reduced effects of aging and improved mental stamina. There are companies worldwide which can provide private hyperbaric chamber models for home use.

www.wisegeek.org...

Dr. Baugh & the Pre-Flood Environment - 03/31/01

Director of the Creation Evidence Museum in Glen Rose, Texas, Dr. Carl Baugh has invented and patented a 'Hyperbaric Biosphere' chamber to test Biblical claims regarding pre-flood atmosphere and magnetic conditions based on Genesis.

Genesis states that life on earth was created 'perfect' and designed to live forever. It also states that after the fall of man, all elements of which everything is made, were cursed. Genesis then records the gradual degeneration of the whole of creation until the flood of Noah followed by an increasing rate of degeneration as time progressed.
If the dates and years reported use the same standards we do in modern times, then there is an overlapping of pre-flood humans with that of post-flood survivors where the pre-flood humans lived many more years.

The average age of man prior to the flood was approximately 920 years, after the flood, mans lifespan declined by 250 years until the time of Christ when lifespans averaged 70 years. Tests indicate simulation of a pre-flood environment would produce conditions of increased longevity, cellular growth and a change in molecular structures.

Our friend the late David Fasold, discoverer of the Ark of Noah in Turkey provided information which was converted to various files on the KeelyNet BBS. One of these files dealt with the declining ages of the Patriarchs before and after the flood. The following information is extracted from the file NOAHARK1.ASC posted on October 29, 1990.
Here is a list showing the decline in longevity from pre-Flood patriarchs through the post-Flood generation, finally reaching the life expectancy of today. The tradition of longevity in ancient man is recorded by the following historians:

Dr. Baugh's experiments with his special hyperbaric biosphere have produced fascinating results that indicate potential methods to heal and/or rejuvenate people today. NASA has even requested Dr. Baugh's research and discoveries to determine their applicability to the space program.

The environment in which we live with plants and other animals has changed since biological systems first appeared. The composition of the air we breathe has continued to change. For example, there is reason to believe that the concentration of oxygen found within the air has decreased over time.

The climate, including temperature, humidity, rainfall, snowfall, and the like has also been changing. It is further theorized that other important changes in the environment of the earth over time have been the marked decrease in atmospheric pressure, a decrease in the concentration of carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere, changes in the strength and orientation of the earth's magnetic field, and the change in the intensity and characteristics of the light radiation to which we are exposed. Furthermore, sounds of nature such as singing birds have become increasingly difficult to encounter due to a general decrease in the population of songbirds.

Many of the above and other changes are a natural result of the maturing of the earth. Other changes to the earth's environment are caused by purely natural events--volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, tidal waves, glaciers, and the like alter the earth itself and the surrounding atmosphere. Other changes to the earth and its atmosphere are due entirely to man.

Pollution, overpopulation, overdevelopment, overutilization of natural resources, fishing, hunting, and farming have all altered our world. As the human population continues to increase, the pace at which these changes occur will inevitably increase.

These changes in the earth and the surrounding environment have had a detrimental impact on plants and animals including man. Certain plants and animals have vanished from the earth, unable to adapt to the changed earth. Many of the remaining varieties of plants and animals have found it difficult to thrive.

The fruits and vegetables of trees and plants have lost taste and nutritional value. Animals, including humans, are increasingly disease stricken, weak, and otherwise unhealthy. Humans seem to have lost their general sense of well being, leading to an increase in depression, suicides, crime, violence, sickness, and other social and physical ailments and have become increasingly lethargic with shortened attention spans.

The increasing physical and mental ailments of humans has led to a constant search for new and improved pharmaceuticals to combat these sicknesses. As one example, scientists are constantly searching the far reaches of the planet for naturally occurring antiviral and antibiotic substances.

www.keelynet.com...

The Pre-flood Atmosphere

There is evidence that the atmosphere enveloping the early earth was very different than it is today. At one time the entire earth enjoyed a warm tropical environment and there was enhanced oxygen in the atmosphere. Organisms grew larger and lived longer as a result.

Many creationists attribute this to a water vapor canopy that was created by God on the second day, the “waters above the firmament” (Genesis 1:7).

This theory holds that a “vast blanket of invisible water vapor…productive of a marvelous greenhouse effect which maintained mild temperatures from pole to pole, thus preventing air-mass circulation and the resultant rainfall (Genesis 2:5). It would certainly have had the further effect of efficiently filtering harmful radiation from space, markedly reducing the rate of somatic mutations in living cells, and, as a consequence, drastically decreasing the rate of aging and death.”(Morris, Henry, Scientific Creationism,1984, p. 211.)

Citing evidence of denser atmosphere in the past, Morris postulates that this vapor layer could have dramatically increased the atmospheric pressure on the surface of the early earth, again contributing to a healthier environment (like a natural hyperbaric chamber). “The higher pressure could have been caused by an extensive blanket of water vapor in the upper atmosphere…It is difficult to imagine any other cause for the higher pressure. Indeed, this could perhaps explain how an ungainly pterosaur with stubby wings could fly.” Later the canopy would have collapsed in the form of rain (the “windows of heaven” in Genesis 7:11), contributing to the Flood water, and resulting in the dramatic drop-off in longevity after the deluge.

Genesis 9 tells how Noah planted a vineyard after the flood and became drunk from the fruit of it. This is an aberration in the life of this godly man. Some have suggested that Noah did not know his grape juice would ferment so quickly or so extensively in the post-flood atmosphere. Or perhaps the reduced atmospheric pressure made it harder for him to “hold his drink.” While this is only speculation, it would help explain this curious situation.

Some creationists emphasize other factors that may have caused the worldwide temperate conditions that existed before the Flood. They stress the evidence of far greater concentrations of carbon dioxide levels in the past and point out that the earth’s magnetic field was far stronger than today. This could have acted as the shield for cosmic radiation and produced the healthier environment. (Humphreys, Russel D., Starlight and Time, 1995, p. 63.) John Baumgardner of Los Alamos has suggested that the atmosphere surrounding the original earth was far thicker than it is today and that the exploding of the fountains of the great deep during the initial stages of the

Genesis Flood stripped some of this atmosphere away. Some Bible scholars cite the language of the Psalm 148:4 as evidence against a vapor canopy. If the canopy had collapsed during the flood, they reason, why does the Psalmist still reference the waters above the firmament? But this poetic allusion could hark back to the original creation, or it could make reference to waters God expanded out into deep space as part of creation, or it could refer to some of the original water vapor (left over from the canopy) still in the outer reaches of our atmosphere.

www.genesispark.com...