The titles of Allah and the Bible.

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

I think that's exactly what he was saying... Jesus didn't use the name Yaweh, or Jehovah...

He called him God or Father...

There is a reason for that...

There was no reason. He just didn't address God but his name but chose to call him as his God instead. And im not a trinitarian if that's what your getting at.

deeezbeats

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

I think that's exactly what he was saying... Jesus didn't use the name Yaweh, or Jehovah...

He called him God or Father...

There is a reason for that...

There was no reason. He just didn't address God but his name but chose to call him as his God instead. And im not a trinitarian if that's what your getting at.

edit on 26-3-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

No that's not what I was getting at...

What I was saying is God has no name... The names used in the OT were tribal gods...

Gods name isn't Jehovah, or Yaweh... That's why Jesus didn't use a proper name...

We don't know Gods name, IF he even has one... Jesus addressed him properly... Father.... or God

deeezbeats

sk0rpi0n
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

I'm not doubting that he did. But for one, the name of the God of Israel is YHWH. It's spelled like that because Hebrew uses vowel points instead of actual letters that have vowel sounds. YHWH means He causes to become. Allah means The God. There was already a chief pantheon God that existed during and Before Islamic times. What was he called? Allah. Google for yourself. Allah was found in pre-islamic Arabic bibles, why? Because the true pronunciation of YHWH was lost by the time Christianity spread to non-jews. Arabic speaking Christians just put Allah. Which is only a title. The arabic alphabet has the necessary alphabet to produce a YHWH variant so if Israels God truly did appear to Mohammed his name would've resembled the Hebrew. But he didn't.

"Only a title", huh?

So, what did Jesus cry out on the cross?
"YHWH, YHWH... why have you forsaken me"???

No. Instead He used a word that resembled "Allah".... he said "Elah". Only a title.

So who was "Elah"? Why did Jesus use the generic Aramaic term for God "Elah" instead of YHWH?

After all, YHWH appears in the bible around 6,900 times. I don't see why he would just not reveal it to Mohammed if he was his chosen prophet.

So who was "Elah"?
I don't see why Jesus would not use YHWH....after all, YHWH appears in the bible around 6,900 times, right?

Let me rephrase. Allah is Arabic for God. Theos is greek for God. El/Elohim is hebrew for God. God is english for Elohim. Dios is spanish for God. So YHWH is God/Allah/Theos/Elohim/Dios.
Jesus said MY GOD why have you forsaken me. I don't see what's wrong with Jesus saying calling YHWH His God since he is his God and Father. That like my calling my dad "Father"

but ''YHWH'' appears 6000+ times in the Bible. How could Jesus say ''Elah'', which resembles ''Allah'' in arabic! Don't tell me ''Allah'' is false because it doesn't resemble YHWH...but ''Elah'' is true....even though it resembles ''Allah'', but not ''YHWH''.

Akragon

deeezbeats

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

I think that's exactly what he was saying... Jesus didn't use the name Yaweh, or Jehovah...

He called him God or Father...

There is a reason for that...

There was no reason. He just didn't address God but his name but chose to call him as his God instead. And im not a trinitarian if that's what your getting at.

edit on 26-3-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

No that's not what I was getting at...

What I was saying is God has no name... The names used in the OT were tribal gods...

Gods name isn't Jehovah, or Yaweh... That's why Jesus didn't use a proper name...

We don't know Gods name, IF he even has one... Jesus addressed him properly... Father.... or God

Just because the Quran doesn't mean YHWH doesnt mean that isnt his name. Muhammed wasnt a prophet of my God. I don't know if you guy are trolling or if not. YHWH is the name of his God. I've never ever called my dad by his first name before. I just call him daddy. Jesus did the same thing. But if your gonna deny that God's name appeared around 7000 times then I guess it's no point debating with you. How can YHWH because "tribal gods" when there is only 1 YHWH?

deeezbeats

Akragon

deeezbeats

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

I think that's exactly what he was saying... Jesus didn't use the name Yaweh, or Jehovah...

He called him God or Father...

There is a reason for that...

There was no reason. He just didn't address God but his name but chose to call him as his God instead. And im not a trinitarian if that's what your getting at.

edit on 26-3-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

No that's not what I was getting at...

What I was saying is God has no name... The names used in the OT were tribal gods...

Gods name isn't Jehovah, or Yaweh... That's why Jesus didn't use a proper name...

We don't know Gods name, IF he even has one... Jesus addressed him properly... Father.... or God

Just because the Quran doesn't mean YHWH doesnt mean that isnt his name. Muhammed wasnt a prophet of my God. I don't know if you guy are trolling or if not. YHWH is the name of his God. I've never ever called my dad by his first name before. I just call him daddy. Jesus did the same thing. But if your gonna deny that God's name appeared around 7000 times then I guess it's no point debating with you. How can YHWH because "tribal gods" when there is only 1 YHWH?

First off I don't troll anyone...

secondly im very serious... IF YHWH is Gods name it was given by man...

God has no name... For one who has a name is a creation of another... and God was not created...

And comparing your use of Dad with Jesus use of Father is hardly relevant... Unless of course your daddy is God...

sk0rpi0n

deeezbeats

sk0rpi0n
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

I'm not doubting that he did. But for one, the name of the God of Israel is YHWH. It's spelled like that because Hebrew uses vowel points instead of actual letters that have vowel sounds. YHWH means He causes to become. Allah means The God. There was already a chief pantheon God that existed during and Before Islamic times. What was he called? Allah. Google for yourself. Allah was found in pre-islamic Arabic bibles, why? Because the true pronunciation of YHWH was lost by the time Christianity spread to non-jews. Arabic speaking Christians just put Allah. Which is only a title. The arabic alphabet has the necessary alphabet to produce a YHWH variant so if Israels God truly did appear to Mohammed his name would've resembled the Hebrew. But he didn't.

"Only a title", huh?

So, what did Jesus cry out on the cross?
"YHWH, YHWH... why have you forsaken me"???

No. Instead He used a word that resembled "Allah".... he said "Elah". Only a title.

So who was "Elah"? Why did Jesus use the generic Aramaic term for God "Elah" instead of YHWH?

After all, YHWH appears in the bible around 6,900 times. I don't see why he would just not reveal it to Mohammed if he was his chosen prophet.

So who was "Elah"?
I don't see why Jesus would not use YHWH....after all, YHWH appears in the bible around 6,900 times, right?

Let me rephrase. Allah is Arabic for God. Theos is greek for God. El/Elohim is hebrew for God. God is english for Elohim. Dios is spanish for God. So YHWH is God/Allah/Theos/Elohim/Dios.
Jesus said MY GOD why have you forsaken me. I don't see what's wrong with Jesus saying calling YHWH His God since he is his God and Father. That like my calling my dad "Father"

but ''YHWH'' appears 6000+ times in the Bible. How could Jesus say ''Elah'', which resembles ''Allah'' in arabic! Don't tell me ''Allah'' is false because it doesn't resemble YHWH...but ''Elah'' is true....even though it resembles ''Allah'', but not ''YHWH''.

If your gonna debate me, please have respect for me and stop recycling the same argument. Jesus said Elah because Elah is Aramaic for God. Arabic the language came from aramaic, that is why Allah is close to Elah.
Before we continue, since i'm sure you agree with the fact that Elah means God, then Allah also means god, which of course is undeniable. Likewise, there are many God's that exist within polytheistic cultures. In the same sense there are many Allah's that exist. The point I am making is that Allah is not exclusive, and can be used towards anyone or anything that is called God or "The God". Elah is just as true as Allah is in the sense they both mean just God. Just like hebrew for brother is akh. Still means the same as the english. And greek for mother is mitera. Do you see the point I am making.

Akragon

deeezbeats

Akragon

deeezbeats

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

I think that's exactly what he was saying... Jesus didn't use the name Yaweh, or Jehovah...

He called him God or Father...

There is a reason for that...

There was no reason. He just didn't address God but his name but chose to call him as his God instead. And im not a trinitarian if that's what your getting at.

edit on 26-3-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

No that's not what I was getting at...

What I was saying is God has no name... The names used in the OT were tribal gods...

Gods name isn't Jehovah, or Yaweh... That's why Jesus didn't use a proper name...

We don't know Gods name, IF he even has one... Jesus addressed him properly... Father.... or God

Just because the Quran doesn't mean YHWH doesnt mean that isnt his name. Muhammed wasnt a prophet of my God. I don't know if you guy are trolling or if not. YHWH is the name of his God. I've never ever called my dad by his first name before. I just call him daddy. Jesus did the same thing. But if your gonna deny that God's name appeared around 7000 times then I guess it's no point debating with you. How can YHWH because "tribal gods" when there is only 1 YHWH?

First off I don't troll anyone...

secondly im very serious... IF YHWH is Gods name it was given by man...

God has no name... For one who has a name is a creation of another... and God was not created...

And comparing your use of Dad with Jesus use of Father is hardly relevant... Unless of course your daddy is God...

No YHWH's name was always YHWH, you don't even have proof of the claim that it was given by man. The prophet ELijah's(Eliyahu in hebrew) name in Hebrews has the shortened for yahu. Just because the muslims God has no name doesn't mean the same applies with the God of Israel. My anology with calling my Dad father is very relevant and I'll tell you why
-My dad has a personal name
-I cally him by the common noun Daddy
- He still has a proper name which is (not going to be mentioned)
- Jesus still used God's name, just not when he was dying on the pole.
- His God's name is still YHWH.

deeezbeats

Akragon

deeezbeats

Akragon

deeezbeats

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

I think that's exactly what he was saying... Jesus didn't use the name Yaweh, or Jehovah...

He called him God or Father...

There is a reason for that...

There was no reason. He just didn't address God but his name but chose to call him as his God instead. And im not a trinitarian if that's what your getting at.

edit on 26-3-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

No that's not what I was getting at...

What I was saying is God has no name... The names used in the OT were tribal gods...

Gods name isn't Jehovah, or Yaweh... That's why Jesus didn't use a proper name...

We don't know Gods name, IF he even has one... Jesus addressed him properly... Father.... or God

Just because the Quran doesn't mean YHWH doesnt mean that isnt his name. Muhammed wasnt a prophet of my God. I don't know if you guy are trolling or if not. YHWH is the name of his God. I've never ever called my dad by his first name before. I just call him daddy. Jesus did the same thing. But if your gonna deny that God's name appeared around 7000 times then I guess it's no point debating with you. How can YHWH because "tribal gods" when there is only 1 YHWH?

First off I don't troll anyone...

secondly im very serious... IF YHWH is Gods name it was given by man...

God has no name... For one who has a name is a creation of another... and God was not created...

And comparing your use of Dad with Jesus use of Father is hardly relevant... Unless of course your daddy is God...

No YHWH's name was always YHWH, you don't even have proof of the claim that it was given by man. The prophet ELijah's(Eliyahu in hebrew) name in Hebrews has the shortened for yahu. Just because the muslims God has no name doesn't mean the same applies with the God of Israel. My anology with calling my Dad father is very relevant and I'll tell you why
-My dad has a personal name
-I cally him by the common noun Daddy
- He still has a proper name which is (not going to be mentioned)
- Jesus still used God's name, just not when he was dying on the pole.
- His God's name is still YHWH.

NO Jesus did not use any name for God... He knew better...

And again, Perhaps if your father was the creator of all things that argument might be relevant... but we both know better....

And I don't need proof of this fact... Its simple logic...

God has no name because there was nothing before God to give him a name... as I've said, one who has a name is a creation of another...

Children do not give their parents a name.... Like wise the created as no right to name the creator...

And don't believe everything you read in the OT... You might notice when moses supposedly spoke to this "burning bush" where he received "Gods name" it was an angel of the lord, not God... a few verses later it was changed to God...

Akragon

deeezbeats

Akragon

deeezbeats

Akragon

deeezbeats

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

I think that's exactly what he was saying... Jesus didn't use the name Yaweh, or Jehovah...

He called him God or Father...

There is a reason for that...

There was no reason. He just didn't address God but his name but chose to call him as his God instead. And im not a trinitarian if that's what your getting at.

edit on 26-3-2014 by deeezbeats because: (no reason given)

No that's not what I was getting at...

What I was saying is God has no name... The names used in the OT were tribal gods...

Gods name isn't Jehovah, or Yaweh... That's why Jesus didn't use a proper name...

We don't know Gods name, IF he even has one... Jesus addressed him properly... Father.... or God

Just because the Quran doesn't mean YHWH doesnt mean that isnt his name. Muhammed wasnt a prophet of my God. I don't know if you guy are trolling or if not. YHWH is the name of his God. I've never ever called my dad by his first name before. I just call him daddy. Jesus did the same thing. But if your gonna deny that God's name appeared around 7000 times then I guess it's no point debating with you. How can YHWH because "tribal gods" when there is only 1 YHWH?

First off I don't troll anyone...

secondly im very serious... IF YHWH is Gods name it was given by man...

God has no name... For one who has a name is a creation of another... and God was not created...

And comparing your use of Dad with Jesus use of Father is hardly relevant... Unless of course your daddy is God...

No YHWH's name was always YHWH, you don't even have proof of the claim that it was given by man. The prophet ELijah's(Eliyahu in hebrew) name in Hebrews has the shortened for yahu. Just because the muslims God has no name doesn't mean the same applies with the God of Israel. My anology with calling my Dad father is very relevant and I'll tell you why
-My dad has a personal name
-I cally him by the common noun Daddy
- He still has a proper name which is (not going to be mentioned)
- Jesus still used God's name, just not when he was dying on the pole.
- His God's name is still YHWH.

NO Jesus did not use any name for God... He knew better...

And again, Perhaps if your father was the creator of all things that argument might be relevant... but we both know better....

And I don't need proof of this fact... Its simple logic...

God has no name because there was nothing before God to give him a name... as I've said, one who has a name is a creation of another...

Children do not give their parents a name.... Like wise the created as no right to name the creator...

And don't believe everything you read in the OT... You might notice when moses supposedly spoke to this "burning bush" where he received "Gods name" it was an angel of the lord, not God... a few verses later it was changed to God...

edit on 26-3-2014 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Your Logic doesn't fit well with me because that also implies there was no one to invent the word GOd/Allah and apply it to them selves. YHWH means causes to become. If there used to be complete nothingness pre-universe and then there came to be something somehow, then that only further proves why his name perfectly fits Exactly what he is. Jesus did Use God name before. You wont see it it many bible because they copied the Jewish Traditions of Rendering God's name Lord. But Jesus quoted from the Old testament where God's name was mentioned

Luke 20:42,43 "For David himself says in the book of Psalms, ‘Jehovah* said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 43 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’"
Quoted from Psalms 110:1

"Jehovah declared to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”"

It doesn't matter if it said God or an angel. What are angels? Messengers of God, they carry out God's will. The presense of an angel is the presense of God. Someone who talks to God everyday and takes orders from him.

reply to post by deeezbeats

Your Logic doesn't fit well with me because that also implies there was no one to invent the word GOd/Allah and apply it to them selves.

God is a title, not a name... There is a difference... Titles are given by men...

God is a word that basically means the most high, exalted being in existence... even existence itself...

You can convince yourself that Jesus used these names all you want, but he didn't...

There has been an effort recently to put these names back into the bible specifically the NT... but they're just not there...

Jesus did not use YHWH, OR Jehovah... or any other name for that matter...

But believe whatever makes you happy....

Read this if you will... Perhaps you'll understand where im coming from...

Understanding the Indescribable

reply to post by Akragon


Another time Jesus quoted from the Old testament using God's name
Mark 12:30 "Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah* our God is one Jehovah,* 30 and you must love Jehovah* your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul* and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’"

Deuteronomy 6:4,5
“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. 5 You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength."

If you wont aknowledge Jesus said this them let's just leave it at that.

deeezbeats
reply to post by Akragon

 

Another time Jesus quoted from the Old testament using God's name
Mark 12:30 "Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah* our God is one Jehovah,* 30 and you must love Jehovah* your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul* and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’"

Deuteronomy 6:4,5
“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. 5 You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength."

If you wont aknowledge Jesus said this them let's just leave it at that.

You're quoting a newer version of the bible, which I've already mentioned....

Jesus did not say Jehovah in ANY of the earliest versions of the new testament...

Jehovah is basically crudely pronouncing the letters of the Tetragrammaton... It is NOT Gods name... Nor is Adonnai or elohim

I take it you're a Jehovah's witness?

hmm.... I seem to be making that assumption a lot these past few days... I wonder why?

Akragon

deeezbeats
reply to post by Akragon

 

Another time Jesus quoted from the Old testament using God's name
Mark 12:30 "Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah* our God is one Jehovah,* 30 and you must love Jehovah* your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul* and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’"

Deuteronomy 6:4,5
“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. 5 You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength."

If you wont aknowledge Jesus said this them let's just leave it at that.

You're quoting a newer version of the bible, which I've already mentioned....

Jesus did not say Jehovah in ANY of the earliest versions of the new testament...

Jehovah is basically crudely pronouncing the letters of the Tetragrammaton... It is NOT Gods name... Nor is Adonnai or elohim

I take it you're a Jehovah's witness?

hmm.... I seem to be making that assumption a lot these past few days... I wonder why?

Of course it's not Jehovah in a Hebrew Bible. Just like it wouldnt be Jesus in the Koran but Muslims have no problem calling him this. I already told you Jesus quotes the old testament where YHWH's name is mentioned when talking in new testament. But I guess that doesn't matter.

reply to post by deeezbeats


Correct... it doesn't matter in the least

the only reason he quoted the OT at all was because it was the only scripture around at the time...

The OT has no bearing on the lessons of Jesus... his teaching stands on its own...

The fact remains, he did not use Yaweh, or Jehovah or any name... He called him Father, OR God...

Using any name for God is disrespectful in my personal opinion...

God or Father is appropriate... because both hold a certain reverence towards him which no other word holds

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

Correct... it doesn't matter in the least

the only reason he quoted the OT at all was because it was the only scripture around at the time...

The OT has no bearing on the lessons of Jesus... his teaching stands on its own...

The fact remains, he did not use Yaweh, or Jehovah or any name... He called him Father, OR God...

Using any name for God is disrespectful in my personal opinion...

God or Father is appropriate... because both hold a certain reverence towards him which no other word holds

Well you agree Jesus was a Jew right? And that the God the Jews Worshipped, the same one that held a covenant with the Israelites, Is the same God who Jesus was a prophet of right? In the Hebrew scriptures. God's name is mentioned many times. Your ignoring the fact that Jesus still quoted FROM the New Testament. The Same scriptures that had God's name in it. SO yes Jesus did say His Father's name. You can't even say that wasn't God's name because it always was. Please stop making assumptions.

deeezbeats

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

Correct... it doesn't matter in the least

the only reason he quoted the OT at all was because it was the only scripture around at the time...

The OT has no bearing on the lessons of Jesus... his teaching stands on its own...

The fact remains, he did not use Yaweh, or Jehovah or any name... He called him Father, OR God...

Using any name for God is disrespectful in my personal opinion...

God or Father is appropriate... because both hold a certain reverence towards him which no other word holds

Well you agree Jesus was a Jew right? And that the God the Jews Worshipped, the same one that held a covenant with the Israelites, Is the same God who Jesus was a prophet of right? In the Hebrew scriptures. God's name is mentioned many times. Your ignoring the fact that Jesus still quoted FROM the New Testament. The Same scriptures that had God's name in it. SO yes Jesus did say His Father's name. You can't even say that wasn't God's name because it always was. Please stop making assumptions.

I think you mean the OT... there was no NT when he was alive...

Jesus was raised in the Judaic faith... and it was the scripture he was taught and learned from, but he wasn't a very good practicing Jew...

Im not assuming anything... I personally believe a different point of view then Christians do...

Just as Jesus was raised in that faith, I was raised in the Christian faith, but I am not Christian...

He only used the OT because he had to relate to his audience...

The people of the OT did not know God before the arrival of Jesus... HE said it himself... and it was reiterated by John in the first chapter of his gospel...

Since you're not a Trinitarian you should be more sympathetic to others in that time who did also not believe in said triune God...

Read up on the gnostics... they believed the OT God was basically a false God... which I also believe... and theres tons of evidence to prove that ideal...

Jesus Vs The Imposter

The so called OT god proves himself to be a vicious tyrant... jealous, envious... and wrathful, which are humanistic qualities... not to be attributed to the God of creation...

God is love Correct? Find a passage in the OT where This god proves he love anything but himself...

And good luck with that

Akragon

deeezbeats

Akragon
reply to post by deeezbeats

 

Correct... it doesn't matter in the least

the only reason he quoted the OT at all was because it was the only scripture around at the time...

The OT has no bearing on the lessons of Jesus... his teaching stands on its own...

The fact remains, he did not use Yaweh, or Jehovah or any name... He called him Father, OR God...

Using any name for God is disrespectful in my personal opinion...

God or Father is appropriate... because both hold a certain reverence towards him which no other word holds

Well you agree Jesus was a Jew right? And that the God the Jews Worshipped, the same one that held a covenant with the Israelites, Is the same God who Jesus was a prophet of right? In the Hebrew scriptures. God's name is mentioned many times. Your ignoring the fact that Jesus still quoted FROM the New Testament. The Same scriptures that had God's name in it. SO yes Jesus did say His Father's name. You can't even say that wasn't God's name because it always was. Please stop making assumptions.

I think you mean the OT... there was no NT when he was alive...

Jesus was raised in the Judaic faith... and it was the scripture he was taught and learned from, but he wasn't a very good practicing Jew...

Im not assuming anything... I personally believe a different point of view then Christians do...

Just as Jesus was raised in that faith, I was raised in the Christian faith, but I am not Christian...

He only used the OT because he had to relate to his audience...

The people of the OT did not know God before the arrival of Jesus... HE said it himself... and it was reiterated by John in the first chapter of his gospel...

Since you're not a Trinitarian you should be more sympathetic to others in that time who did also not believe in said triune God...

Read up on the gnostics... they believed the OT God was basically a false God... which I also believe... and theres tons of evidence to prove that ideal...

Jesus Vs The Imposter

The so called OT god proves himself to be a vicious tyrant... jealous, envious... and wrathful, which are humanistic qualities... not to be attributed to the God of creation...

God is love Correct? Find a passage in the OT where This god proves he love anything but himself...

And good luck with that

edit on 26-3-2014 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

And this whole time I thought you were muslim. Never mind. I don't spend time with people who tricked themselves into thinking God is a Tyrant.

reply to post by deeezbeats


No problem there... God isn't a tyrant

And the OT critter isn't God...

Simple solution

and By the way... that doesn't mean im a gnostic either...

deeezbeats... The point I am making is that Allah is not exclusive, and can be used towards anyone or anything that is called God or "The God". Elah is just as true as Allah is in the sense they both mean just God.

I'm going to have to repeat myself here. YOU claimed that ''YHWH'' is the only true name of God. Yet, we see that Jesus used a generic, non-exclusive word for God, ''Elah''...which sounds similar to ''Allah''.

@ deeezbeats... Jesus said Elah because Elah is Aramaic for God. Arabic the language came from aramaic, that is why Allah is close to Elah.

This isn't just about language. Its about concepts of God... Eloh/Elah/Allah mean ''God'' in Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic respectively. Conceptually, all three words in their respective scriptures refer to the Omnipotent Creator, who is seperate from His creations...NOT a part of it.