Should the US must keep supporting Israel?

IAF if u are so good in history i am sure u remeber why u made a peace proccess with egypt cuz u were in a big load of trouble with egypt from south and syria for the north . Now that u are feeling more secure with a the pressures on syria and the new threatless iraq nothing will make u want peace anymore.

And a note, by the way... it is always those who stand for peace who are killed. Christ, Abraham Lincoln, Mahatma Gandhi, John Lennon, Itzhak Rabin. It seems that war and hate is indeed the driving force of humanity.

And I see that IAF and Tut are playing the "He started it! No he started it!" game.

Trust me US was always behind ur asses , I would tell u honestly that israel is the strongest country and yes most probably u will win the next war again. but through viloence u will never be secure. Do u know that jews and arabs go back in time to have the same blood and race. and look at u. all that is in ur head is killing and solving the problem with ur tanks. ISrael should be a peacful country and that will reward her.

Thats what they told you to cover the fear of Egypt...
Israel could not make peace if Egypt and Jordan didnt want to. When they agreed for peace then peace was there.

We will make peace with those who want peace and looks for better life in the middle east, but we will make war with those who wish to destroy us.

Once again you are messing the history upside down.

You know what? All right continue to think that Israel is the one who looked for wars, and pleace you are so not intelligent that it hurts, thinking Israel sstarted the wars, dont say I am playing the game of "he started it" when you claim the same thing.

The arabs were and still trying to destroy us, and we will fight them, but we will make and we had made peace with those who want to leave in peace with us.
From my side you can contniue blaming Israel for messing teh regeion. Your choice. Good Night, unlike you, I have important things to do tomorrow.

Hmmm, was that last post directed at me?

And if so, why the hell are you angry? I said Israel had the right to exist and defend itself, didn't I? What I mean is, of course if each side keep on rejecting all of the blame on the other for this happening - and there's been a cycle of provocation and counter-provocation going on for decades - nothing will be accomplished.

Ah, but I forgot. Israel can do no wrong.

yeh sure i bet u wana go kill couple of palisitinains tommorw , sleep well, anyways u got so used to it its so easy now. in 1973 Egypt and syria with the help of Iraq so muh capable of earasing newly born israel and still egypt went for peace and syria pulled its army. Everyone claims to want peace but it is hard for someone to take the step. Poor Rabin did and wat he got was a bullet form ur fundimentalist jews. Goodnight anyways no hard feelings.

Yes I am going to take my F-15I and bomb palestinian children tomorrow before breakfast, and at lunch i'll take again my F-15I and bomb innocent Huzballa terrorists in Lebanon, and at supper I am going to take my F-15I again, together with my wingman and we will blow up Iranian innocent nuclear reactors.
Whoa I am so evil.

No hard feelings.
Good Night

Originally posted by IAFthunderpilot
Yes I am going to take my F-15I and bomb palestinian children tomorrow before breakfast, and at lunch i'll take again my F-15I and bomb innocent Huzballa terrorists in Lebanon, and at supper I am going to take my F-15I again, together with my wingman and we will blow up Iranian innocent nuclear reactors.
Whoa I am so evil.

No hard feelings.
Good Night

thats the spirit

well thats what you lot are good for droping bombs in crowded area's hoping to kill a few

Blood in the water, FRENZY

both sides are equally to blame.

I also noticed that when a pro-isreali person debates they get like a wounded cat backed into a corner. Why do you think that is? I have been insulted by words by at least three people. I never insulted them. I think I spoke with respect. Just like most except for the pro-isreal group. Anyway, that's all for me.

Well our support of Isreal isn't cheap, take a look...

www.csmonitor.com...
Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.

Now keep in mind that isn't even getting into the hundreds of billiions more from this fiasco...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
They do this world wide by the way, not just here in the US. Do the math...

All of this support and we still have a mossad spy ring running around in the US, that sure I one heck of a way to say thank you. Think about it, Israel is one of the wealthiest nations, but they don't export anything but Mossad. I'm sick of Israel and I'm sick of being called anti-semitic because of it. For example, Do you know why we attacked Lybia in the 80's?

Originally posted by twitchy
Well our support of Isreal isn't cheap, take a look...

www.csmonitor.com...
Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.

Now keep in mind that isn't even getting into the hundreds of billiions more from this fiasco...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
They do this world wide by the way, not just here in the US. Do the math...

All of this support and we still have a mossad spy ring running around in the US, that sure I one heck of a way to say thank you. Think about it, Israel is one of the wealthiest nations, but they don't export anything but Mossad. I'm sick of Israel and I'm sick of being called anti-semitic because of it. For example, Do you know why we attacked Lybia in the 80's?

didnt you attack libya because they bombed israel and killed a couple of americans?

Why do Israeli posters get hot under the collar?

Hmmmmm maybe its because out of all us posting here they are the only ones who feel they live in small country that is under seige, under threat of destruction and constant terrorist attack by factions that are only agreeable to thier existence while they are strong enough to fight for it, while having to put up with ever increasing vilification and abuse from western nations while doing so, and foreigners comfortable and safe in thier homes in London, NY and Sydney judging them.

Many Israelis I think (PHO) see this as a fight for survival, and probably are not far wrong about what will happen to them if they give up the hardwon strategic advantages they have gained in nearly sixty years of existence. I also dont blame them for not putting much trust in Westerners to safeguard thier security, especially Europeans.

If Israelis were as bad as the Nazis, if they really were as bad as some of the lefty and uninformed posters here accused them of there wouldnt be a West Bank or Gaza. If they wanted to tomorrow they could level those settlements by fire and woe betide any arab state that tried to intervene, because Israel has the bomb and will take you to oblivion with them rather than go quietly.

They are struggling with the balance between trying to protect thier own and becoming what they dispise.....the shift towards trying to target specific terror leadership targets rather than more mass incursions (yes I know they still happen but targeting has become the more preferred weapon of choice) with resultant fewer innocent casualties should be noted, where groups like Hammas still target buses and grocery cues.

Ive noticed two things. While there are still more Palestinians on the casualty lists the ratio between them and Israelis seems to be declining. Secondly, terrorist attacks in Israel stay at thier lowest when thier security is at its toughest. If they were to stop tomorrow, they would be dogmeat.

Many of the same Israelis want peace but they are not going to agree to it while groups like Hammas send bombers into the markets, schools and transit stations of Israel everytime they relax thier guard.

While most Palestinians may also want peace they are not going to get it while militant clerics and the "big men" of the resistance justify thier existence by perpetuating the terror campaign against Israel provokoing responses, and thus ensuring bitter young men and women willing to soak up the lies for a martyrs cause abound. Take away the struggle and these "leaders" are nothing but bitter old men without real power, and no gullible young recruits to send off to martyrdom.

At the moment Israelis and Palestinians are thier own worst enemies and to an extent deserve each other.

Sorry. But it struck a nerve of my own when one person described thier defensive responses to criticism as touchy....it just summed up the whole isolated safe view of many westerners (I'm Anglo-Irish-Australian myself) to the issue.

Here is hoping they are now both moving back in the right direction, and stuff Hammas and the extreme right wing settlers.

(Eventual) Peace to Israel and Palestine.

PS. To those few out there who think that the Suicide Bombers are heros who kill them selves to kill Israelis (and others abroad) don't kid yourselves. They are, next to the old men who send them out of the shadows, the biggest cowards on the planet, men and women who have the one luxury of not being around to look right into the eye of the carnage and misery they create or live with the consequences. At least the uniformed troops who get vilified have to try to live with themselves when they stuff up and get it wrong or kill innocents in the cross fire. Some should start telling the would be martyrs THAT!

Excellent observations craigandrew. It is pure logic. It is common sense. Look at the facts and try to make an honest decision on who is wrong and who is right.

Right: Israelis trying to build bridges between Arabs and Jews.

Wrong: Arabs won't acknowledge Israel should exist.

Verfed...thanks but you may have missed the point of part of the post.

I honestly beleive the majority on both sides want peace, but it is a extreme minority on both sides who don't and have the means to keep it that way....strange bedfellows indeed.

I know good land must be scarce but seriously...."go UP young man/woman, go UP" instead of slidding a bit more behind that wall.

No comparison to the Berlin Wall by the way. The main purpose of the Berlin Wall to stop people escaping to the west. The Israel wall is mainly to keep suicide bombers and gunmen out. Any other unfortunate side effects to the Palestinians wouldnt be desired by the Israelis but no doubt the Palestinian extremists welcome them. Its feeds thier power by embittering more Palestinians. But hey.....Now the Israelis are blamed for building a passive defense line. Maybe they should just stack thier arms at the open checkpoints, go home and hope for the best while they are at it.

BTW I am seriously interested. Has anybody figured out if the barrier uniformly establishes a set distance between the wall on Israeli settlements on one side and the Palestinians on the other, or if Israeli and Palestinian land have swapped over in the process of building it. Or is the give all one sided?

It irritates me however it is so much more acceptable to some for Palestinian anger against Israel incursions to be vented so publically in rallies, yet when you see Israelis expressing outrage following a suicide attack on a marketplace a slanted opinion says WTF have they got to be angry about?

At the moment, right wing settlers and Palestinian extremists are both sh**ting me.

Originally posted by IAFthunderpilot
Thats what they told you to cover the fear of Egypt...
Israel could not make peace if Egypt and Jordan didnt want to. When they agreed for peace then peace was there.

We will make peace with those who want peace and looks for better life in the middle east, but we will make war with those who wish to destroy us.

What is the insider view of the peace proccess in whole as it pertains to the Road Map. It has yet again stalled and I'm finding frustration expressed in the Israeli and EU and US points of view. Is it really the last of participation is voluntary or does it have to do with the senility of PA President Arafat. I understand the Israeli's had a change in view and decided him to return to his compound after treatment if he survives.

Why the change from an exile view to this new compassionate view of a humanitarian relief from the house arrest type exile he has been under for the last three years. Is this an effort to restart the Road Map project by showing compasionate actions do you think the PA will be more apt to deal now.

No one here so far is arguing that the Israeli nation doesn't has the right to exsist, I think the main purpose of this thread is/was to discuss the current unillateral level of support the US offers Israel in light of the reprocussions we face from terrorism because of this support. Trillions of dollars and thousands of dead americans are a pretty serious call to examine our roles in the Israeli Pallestinian conflict. 2000 years is along time to pop up one day and say you want your land back, so yeah it is logical to assume there is going to be some friction in the reigon. Honestly, why not recognise Palestine as a soverignty, after all they spent 2000 years there themselves you know. This conflict has peaceful solutions, but not until BOTH sides are willing to stop shooting at each other. Yes both sides.

Originally posted by twitchy
No one here so far is arguing that the Israeli nation doesn't has the right to exsist, I think the main purpose of this thread is/was to discuss the current unillateral level of support the US offers Israel in light of the reprocussions we face from terrorism because of this support. Trillions of dollars and thousands of dead americans are a pretty serious call to examine our roles in the Israeli Pallestinian conflict. 2000 years is along time to pop up one day and say you want your land back, so yeah it is logical to assume there is going to be some friction in the reigon. Honestly, why not recognise Palestine as a soverignty, after all they spent 2000 years there themselves you know. This conflict has peaceful solutions, but not until BOTH sides are willing to stop shooting at each other. Yes both sides.

Thanks for putting this thread back on track. On 9/11 the US support for Israel was the first to cross my mind. I didn't need OBL telling me that

Originally posted by judge

Originally posted by Vladtepes
Should USA must keep supporting Israel?


[edit on 28-10-2004 by Vladtepes]

Perhaps the USA should support the relocation of Israel?.

Just a thought.

You can not be serious trying to take God's Gift from his children in Israel.
It was given as a covenant to the children when they were persicuted and inslaved and he freed them and gave them their own land so that wouldn't be gypsy castouts and would have a place to stay out of the borders of those who didnt want them in the first place. Just let them have their land and leave them in peace and not only would you have their respect in return , But God blesses the defenders of Israel who would help them in their times of need selflessly with no other motivation but love for God and his children your brothers and sisters in God's eyes.