Tell me what you know about Islam

reply to post by wildtimes

A woman's attitude is far more important than what she is wearing. A woman who is confident in her brains and in her composure doesn't need to "cover up" -- her ability to look people in the eye, to speak her mind in a moderate voice, and to effortlessly exude "self-respect" is plenty. For heaven's sake, if a woman has to be completely covered up to be taken "seriously", well, that's just weird, to my mind.

i agree completely with the initial part.
The "completely covered" part is a problem of more than one normals. A jeans and top is your normal and its fine. A cloak and scarf is normal for a muslim woman. Many muslims wear a jeans, top and scarf. A hooded t shirt and jeans is great too according to me but will you ask a muslim woman to wear jeans and top just because you think she is over covered?

reply to post by wildtimes

I want to add that you seem to have a "warped" idea of how Western women dress, just as we have a "warped" idea of why Muslim women would want to be "veiled" in fabric as though ashamed of themselves.

i did have a warped idea till a few years back not anymore. I just presented the ideas from a stand of how an unexposed to west muslim thinks and so feels to protect their womenfolk from the "evil" West.
I also feel protective about people i care but not from "evil" West but from evils of west and east and all around.

reply to post by ZeroReady


you do have good knowledge about Islam but from a biased source, its sure is objective from an outsider view but with some errors. Its more of an interpretation of events to downplay islam and prophet than a reporting of events.

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
Lets see...some random things I remember...

There are five "pillars" in Islam...(sort of like religious tenets)

Mohommad basically "bargained" with God over how many times his followers would pray durring his "night journey" to Jerusalem. He recieved some bargaining advice from Noah.

The king of what is now Ethiopia harbored Mohammad and his followers after they were driven out of Mecca by the local pagan merchants. (polytheism was big business, and he was cutting into it)

Those are really the only interesting ones that I remember. I'm sure everyone already talked about the kabba with the black rock inside and jihad and all that other stuff.

You do have a bit idea of "night journey" just the black rock is not inside but at one corner outside Kabbah. It doesnt have very high significance not as much as the critics of islam put on it.

Originally posted by Severin
I must admit that I don't know a lot about Islam. Although I do have an interesting story/anecdote to share...

Recently i had a very long overnight stay at an airport (in Germany). During this time I saw a guy in a robe who looked very Islamic and immediately thought he looked kinda out of place. A few hours later I saw him again, standing in a corner away from everyone preparing to pray. After a minute or two another guy came along who looked Arabic but dressed in western clothing. They spoke for a minute and then started to pray together, as I'd never seen this before i was interested to watch. Once they'd finished they took a photo of themselves together, shook hands and went their separate ways.

It just seemed so cool to me that two strangers would come together in such an artificial place as an airport, pray and then get on with their journeys.

Sorry, but no major insights into Islam apart from the fact that I witnessed something special (from my point of view) between two total strangers that shared a common belief but something that was probably absolutely normal to them.

thats an interesting story. Yes that feeling of universal brotherhood is great to watch. I have personally felt it in similar ways, great to feel too.

reply to post by logical7

A hooded t shirt and jeans is great too according to me but will you ask a muslim woman to wear jeans and top just because you think she is over covered?

Actually, I can answer this from personal experience (although not from a "muslim" dress standpoint.) When I was in high school and college, my "best friend" (who was a cheerleader, yes, and flaunted herself) told me "You should wear tighter clothes, you have such a cute figure!"

I told her I wear what I'm comfortable in. People found me attractive for WHO I was, not HOW I LOOKED.

If a woman is dressed from head to toe in the west, it looks like she is "hiding" something. People who are "hiding something" are seen to "have something to hide" - and especially over the last decade, women "advertising" their faith by wearing the scarf are sending a very clear "I'm not like you" signal which is quite unnerving and off-putting. It doesn't say "don't flirt with me" - it says "trouble". It says "Muslim", and we as a country (the USA) have an understandable discomfort due to the trauma of Sept 11, 2001.

Whether or not it was a "false flag" conspiracy, a pack of lies, or just maniac extremists with a boss living in a cave somwhere - we were affected VERY NEGATIVELY -- prior to that, Muslims were not "suspect", they were just different in customs. Now, however, things are different. That's what happens when "conquering" or "attacking" out of the blue occurs. We were taken by surprise - ambushed...(at least we regular citizens)...shocked, horrified, and suddenly Muslims weren't just different. They were SCARY and DANGEROUS and CRAZY.

I'm sorry for this, and my efforts here are to expose these misconceptions so that on both sides we can understand. This may seem very abrupt and "combative", but, there it is. I've never been one to "keep silent" -- and often people tell me after my brazen "outspokenness" that 'I didn't say anything that everybody else wasn't thinking' (in meetings, classes, etc - I'm not on the MSM doing it).

It is what it is, and your culture now has a HUGE uphill battle to overcome the fear and mistrust that the events of 9/11 produced.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
Religion is a massive Illuminati tool with a stealth agenda that is used to deceive the masses.

Religion is used to cause people to HATE God and blame HIM for all the atrocities and deaths.

This is how the real agenda behind Illuminati religions works:

1) Create a "religion" that commits horrendous atrocities and kills millions.

2) Make it grow by threatening all those who try to leave.

3) Blame all these atrocities on God and His "Religion".

"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati to enslave and brainwash society. In essence, religion was the first form of mind control."

All false religions are illuminati created

did you forget to mention, "all religions other than mine are false"!!!?
Come on, lets not do that, because illuminati can equally have demonised the right religion to keep people in control and away from enlighment. So the best way to foil their plan is to honestly learn about all of them and then make up our own God given mind.

Originally posted by darkstar57
my take is mohammed toked too much hash, read the torah, wrote the koran, then killed all the jews that could show how he did it.

Mohammad pbuh couldnt write, he was illerate, couldnt read either ofcourse. Then someone must helped him?right, so you sure need to learn more and let go what you assumed. Next step. His wife's cousin Waraka helped, then unfortunately he died but Qur'an kept coming for 23 years commenting on events going on during that present times, oh! would need a newer assumption, keep going..
All the best.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
I know that Mohammed was white and his last wife before he died was a Jew. I know that the black rock in Mecca is a meteorite, and I know that Islam will be the one world religion spoken of in the Bible in the Book of Revelation.

interesting! I dint knew about the Book of Revelation part, can you tell me about it?

Originally posted by wildtimes
It occurs to me, logical7, that you may have more exposure to European young women and those "fashion slave" types - I am curious what part of the world you live in.

Yes, there are "body image" issues among young women who are shown an impossible "ideal" - and that is something our society is dealing with. We don't want women to feel "not good enough", but the capitalists sure know how to sell their products and portray the "ideal" in order to sell makeup, salon services, etc.

I'm not promoting that at all. I hope you understand.

i am from india. I dont have exposure to western women in person but i am a curious soul and i have internet.
I understand you.

reply to post by wildtimes

It is what it is, and your culture now has a HUGE uphill battle to overcome the fear and mistrust that the events of 9/11 produced.

yes i understand that but it wouldnt help to bend over backward to keep people comfortable in their ignorance. Better to show who muslims are. Isnt that about being confident about oneself?
Actually after 9/11 the younger generation went for hijab because suddenly their patriotism was questioned and they felt unaccepted, so the thought was better have a muslim identity in full, the american identity is anways stripped away.
Its a cause-effect cycle, behaviour of each party involved makes a difference. Labelling all muslims as terrorists makes hot blooded teens to withdraw among their own "kind" easy catch for extremists and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Everyone has a responsibility.

reply to post by logical7

Actually after 9/11 the younger generation went for hijab because suddenly their patriotism was questioned and they felt unacceped, so the thought was better have a muslim identity if full, the american identity is anways stripped away.

I don't understand this. Their patriotism TO WHOM was questioned? Unaccepted by WHOM?
"Better to have a Muslim identify in full," when all of America (and later citizens of other countries who endured bombings)...felt attacked and hated, and targeted by them?

Why would you advertise being in any way sympathetic to a culture that IS PERCEIVED (whether wrongly or not) to have committed such atrocities? Seems to me, better to keep a low profile when tensions and suspicion are so high.

If the idea is to "prove we're not like that" - well, fine, but that's still an uphill battle.

If it's to strip away "identification" with the West in any way, as 'in Americans are evil and horrible and I'm not one of them', when you are IN AMERICA, is something entirely different. It can easily be taken as "hostility" even though the person's actions are benign and totally innocent.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time.

The verse says that war has been decreed for mankind, whether we like it or not. My interpretation is that It was probably a part of Adam and Eves punishment. God knows best.

Allah said, "Descend from Paradise - all, your descendants being enemies to one another.
-Koran 20:123

(OP, whats your take on this?)

Even the bible teaches us that wars would be used to bring judgement to the nations.

If you really want to learn about Islam, start by looking at the Islamic view and avoid biased websites that are inclined towards bashing Islam.

Jesus said turn the other cheek.
...Jesus came to show that violence could never lead to submission, but rather only to separation and destruction.

All that sounds fine and dandy. But Christians also believe that Jesus comes back to kill millions of people, especially non-Christians. Turn the other cheek and then destroy them?

My advice is, look at the larger picture. Don't just quote the lovey-dovey parts and say "see how nice Jesus was". Jesus had a certain mission. The part about "turning the other cheek" had a specific purpose... you don't understand it. But it definitely wasn't because Jesus wanted Christians to be slapped around.

That verse is preparing the muslims to fight an upcoming battle to defend and later reclaim their homes. The pagans were not sitting idle, they wanted to wipe out muslims even when muslims had left Makkah,
The verse is motivating to fight which is the right thing in that circumstance. It was unavoidable and fighting is sure not a play and not all were so eager.
The verse will still apply if circumstances are similar. Obviously it is foolish to take it as a standing command all the time.

Okay, logical7,
I'm still confused....

is the hijab to

1) "send the signal to not flirt", (avoiding being seen as "available")?

or

2) be recognized as "Muslim" so that terrorists/extremists won't attack them?

See the difference?

reply to post by wildtimes

Why would you advertise being in any way sympathetic to a culture that IS PERCEIVED (whether wrongly or not) to have committed such atrocities?

maybe because i am muslim. I know my religion. Yes i do understand the reactions and perceptions. I am just saying its a joint responsibility.

Seems to me, better to keep a low
profile when tensions and suspicion
are so high.
If the idea is to "prove we're not like
that" - well, fine, but that's still an
uphill battle.

yes sure its uphill but keeping low profile wouldnt have helped, unless muslims even changed names, eating habbits etc
better to be what we are and interact to eradicate ignorance.

If it's to strip away "identification" with
the West in any way, as 'in Americans
are evil and horrible and I'm not one
of them', when you are IN AMERICA, is
something entirely different. It can
easily be taken as "hostility" even though the person's actions are
benign and totally innocent.

i dint say that, i said the muslims were seen as outsiders based on their name and looks, based on their religion. That was a phase, understandable but doesnt make it right.

Originally posted by wildtimes
Okay, logical7,
I'm still confused....

is the hijab to

1) "send the signal to not flirt", (avoiding being seen as "available")?

or

2) be recognized as "Muslim" so that terrorists/extremists won't attack them?

See the difference?

and the jews wear their cap so that they get recognised during false flags.
See the similarity?
.
The answer can be found very simply, were people wearing caps, hijabs, habits etc before the 'birth' of terrorism (for americans at least) at 9/11. YES!! So then its less likely that its some sort of secret plan to target infidels/goyims etc.

reply to post by logical7


Okay, I can see that we have broached some sensitive issues here.

I just want to make sure you understand that I am not Jewish, not Muslim, not Christian, not affiliated with any religion. I'm trying to understand what's going on with your part of the world.

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
I know that Mohammed was white and his last wife before he died was a Jew. I know that the black rock in Mecca is a meteorite, and I know that Islam will be the one world religion spoken of in the Bible in the Book of Revelation.

interesting! I dint knew about the Book of Revelation part, can you tell me about it?

Read the book "Unleashing the Beast" by Perry Stone. It is well researched and will explain it all. You would be surprised at how much Christianity and Islam are tied together.

reply to post by wildtimes


You are so far, the most rational poster in this very sensitive subject. I whole heartedly agree with you, they say one thing yet do another....damn, where have i seen that before...oh yeah, everywhere.

The OP asks for ourt opinions, and this is mine; don't declare Jihad on me just because I am an infidel.

The Quran, the Bible and all major religious texts are and always have been a way of controlling the people for a good purpose back in the days. Today we have a police force that will attempt to control the people, and assert a certain moral obligation to society, back then they didn't have that luxury and this belief system was born.

If you truly put aside your beliefs and research religious history back through the ages, you will find amazing similarities in ALL of the major stories. Take the main points of the religous stories, i.e the great flood...it has happened on many occasions according to the big texts, yet geological data can only account for MAYBE one. The big stories are so similiar its striking, don't believe me? Check the very ancient Greek religious stories, and you will tie up the great flood eons before christianity or islam where even thought of.

So, my opinion, is stories of stories.... sorry, but that's my belief, and ANY religion that subjugates its followers into pain/repression/control is a FALSE religion. Don't get me wrong, Christianity has more than enough to answer for, but so does Islam. The only difference is, we don't go around the globe on a crusade anymore, and the Islamic extremists make the news every day.

But just incase you want to hate me, we have some very good, honest friends that follow Islam properly, and they are truly some of the nicest people that have graced our lives.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

Okay, I can see that we have broached some sensitive issues here.

I just want to make sure you understand that I am not Jewish, not Muslim, not Christian, not affiliated with any religion. I'm trying to understand what's going on with your part of the world.

i know you are not jewish neither belonging to any organised religion. Just gave a parallel example to show how it appears to be coming from a prejudiced mind.