US gun debate: Obama unveils gun control proposals

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by xedocodex

 

You wanted Obama to come out and say he is signing an EO to start confisicating guns, and instead he came out and made logical steps into making schools safer, making background checks better, and allowing health care providers to let authorities know if someone tells them they are about to kill people without worrying about HIPPA.

Don’t forget national gun registry (complete violation of privacy) and a halt to the sale and manufacture of several types of weapons and magazines.

I wonder how many people he will be putting out of work?? 10,000??

NDAA, Patriot Act, SOPA, ACTA, gun bans, 6 trillion in debt, higher unemployment, more on welfare.....YES, he's such a GREAT POTUS, isn't he?

edit on 16-1-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

He didn't do any of that today, stop your lies.

He asked Congress to work on these...and if Congress acts, then it is Constitutionally legit. If you don't like it and your representative votes for it, feel free to vote him out. I'll be sure to vote my rep out if they don't support it.

Originally posted by eriktheawful

Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

Uhm.....what?

Okay. I understand that there can be substances, drugs and yes, even some sort of diseases out there that can affect a person's mental health, leading them prone to violence, etc.

While I can support that, I'd really like the CDC concentrating on life threatening diseases that claim all too many lives (much more than guns ever have).

Well, the first thing that comes to my mind on this matter is that maybe he wants violence classified as an official disease. Lord forbid if that were to occur, because if something like that happened then anyone who expresses anger about anything (especially the actions of the government) could be locked up as a potential "terrorist" you know, just in case the disease takes over. I know that is stretching it a bit, but with this administration who knows?

My hope is that maybe he wants the CDC to look into the effects of medications and GMOs on this sort of violence. Crossing fingers on that one.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


The manufactured outrage over this matter is hilarious!

Constitutional conservatives, who decry big government more than establishment Republicans, consider tyranny as the enemy. Government that increasingly violates the Constitution under Republicans or Democrats is, in measure, increasingly tyrannical.

The fact is that government no longer treats the Constitution as law binding it. As a result, government not only violates the Constitution with greater frequency and even more contempt, but government bureaucrats violate the very laws they enforce that are subordinate to the Constitution.

Obama Lurching Toward Tyranny

Manufactured by Obama, and a Congress's hellbent on Tyranny.

We are all to blame.

Originally posted by Mamatus

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by seabag

I have 2 things to say - 1) I TOLD YOU SO!! and 2) 'Thanks a lot' to all of you who voted for this man and his evil tyrannical machine...

You are Welcome Bud.

Always willing to help a Bloke out.

Well enjoy your Kool Aid and your neutered, dependent, helpless, cradle to grave, government controlled lifestyle that Obama intends to create for all of us.

You folks are proud of yourselves, aren't you? You should be ashamed!

You think it is just Obama? Methinks you are not seeing the entire picture......

WHO JUST GAVE THAT SPEECH???

MICKEY MOUSE???

The law Obama suggested is very similar to gun law in Finland... even the law is strict it didnt work to avoid 2 school massacres Jokela and Kauhajoki. In these shootings one used his fathers guns and the other used the legal way to posess a gun.

Finnish Gun law

In general there is less guns in the streets, even the amount of guns are great per capita most are collectors.

reply to post by seabag

Originally posted by seabag
You must be kidding....did you hear his speech? He wants to reinstate the 94' ban. The 94' ban halts the manufacture of assault weapons.

Yes, I heard his speech. WANTING to do something and doing something are two different things. CONGRESS needs to reinstate the ban.

This entire effort (with the exception of stronger background checks) is a travesty.

Which of Obama's Actions, specifically, do you disagree with? Providing resources to schools? Funding educational programs? Looking into the culture of violence? Or investigating the mental health link?

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

You have changed my views, while say a month ago I was for a total ban on guns I am now an advocate of the Second Amendment. I believe that Americans should have the right to own a gun to defend themselves and that this right should not be taken away by government. That said however I do still believe that something does need to change in the American attitude to guns and the laws that regulate guns. I disagree with these changes unveil by Obama I think in some ways they go too far, what exactly the solution is I don’t know, all I know is that this isn’t it.

Holy Cow!
Welcome to the fold.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
Then In that case I would have to say I am opposed to these changes.

Which Executive Actions do you oppose?

Oppose the wording of this entire thing, what actually constitutes a “military style” weapon, that could be anything and I do not support a complete ban.

I also disagree with the mental health aspect of it, I think mental health is such a important issue that it requires a wider debate separate from the issue of gun control

reply to post by dollukka


Did Finland's law prevent the other 10 school massacres that would have happened without it?

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin

I also disagree with the mental health aspect of it, I think mental health is such a important issue that it requires a wider debate separate from the issue of gun control

Rome wasnt built in a Day.

Im sure those Aspects that concern you, and other details will be tightened up in the Following weeks.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin

I also disagree with the mental health aspect of it, I think mental health is such a important issue that it requires a wider debate separate from the issue of gun control

I guess Obama putting a dirty band-aid over it, will fix it.



Its all about Mental health, and that's where we have to look first.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Oppose the wording of this entire thing, what actually constitutes a “military style” weapon, that could be anything and I do not support a complete ban.

What "wording"? What are you talking about? I see you don't know what you're talking about. Thanks for clarifying. Nothing Obama signed today has anything to do with "military-style" weapons.

I also disagree with the mental health aspect of it, I think mental health is such a important issue that it requires a wider debate separate from the issue of gun control

They are linked! Where have you been? You're making up stuff to dislike, can't name anything specific and grasping at straws. There's nothing in Obama's actions today to disagree with. Educate yourself about what he actually did.

reply to post by Tw0Sides


Very true but still maintain that mental health is such a important issue that it should be opened up for debate outwith the debate about gun control I just think it sends the wrong message, it associates guns with mental illness and I don’t think that is right.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Which of Obama's Actions, specifically, do you disagree with? Providing resources to schools? Funding educational programs? Looking into the culture of violence? Or investigating the mental health link?

They don't know what they are angry about...it was already decided that they would be angry with whatever Obama did today. Turns out it was completely logical actions that address gun violence and not ownership of guns...for gods sake, even Fox News is admitting that these aren't controversial actions.

For weeks now gun advocates have been saying we should focus on those that are mentally ill, focus on making schools safer, and focus on what is causing PEOPLE to go on mass shootings...and that is exactly what Obama did and they are mad?

I think the real reason they are mad is because Obama came out today and made logical decisions that are all perfectly withing his Presidential powers...and for the most part, deep down they agree with these actions...and they don't know how to process that. How can they support something Obama did, even though it is what they have been asking for?

I remember the dark, dark days between 1994 and 2004 when tyranny ruled supreme and the FEMA camps were always full of the rebellious. Obama wants to return us to those dark times in his bid for world domination.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Its not that I disagree with the idea of further investment in mental health, I just don’t think it should be included into a debate about gun control.

Mental health, like gun control is a massive issue and the issue of guns are just a small part of a bigger problem that is why I object to it being included in these announcements.

Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I'll start off by saying my thoughts are in a haze of shock to see what he's really done here.

You wanted Obama to come out and say he is signing an EO to start confisicating guns, and instead he came out and made logical steps into making schools safer, making background checks better, and allowing health care providers to let authorities know if someone tells them they are about to kill people without worrying about HIPPA.

.

The only logical steps he made were more incremental steps toward total disarmament in the agenda to totalitarian control of the USA. Nothing he did makes anyone safer or protects schools. it in fact makes people more vulnerable. It is proven fact that when law abiding citizens have free access to guns of all types crime rates drop dramatically. Even the UN studies show this. And so called gun free zones are always the place these tragedies happens.

On another note the bovine excrement in your particular posts is just excessive, troll much do you ya?

reply to post by butcherguy


I see ATS as a learning tool as much as I see it as a communication tool as such it is only right that as I learn more I adapt my views to reflect as much

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
Very true but still maintain that mental health is such a important issue that it should be opened up for debate outwith the debate about gun control I just think it sends the wrong message, it associates guns with mental illness and I don’t think that is right.

People are free to talk about mental health. They have been doing so for a long time. It's not as though they have to stop addressing mental illness as a separate issue because it's been discovered that much of the gun violence in perpetrated by mentally ill people...

YOU are mixing up the idea of legal gun ownership and illegal gun violence! There's a HUGE difference. It doesn't associate guns with mental illness, it associates illegal gun violence with mental illness. If anyone is guilty of clouding the issue, it's the staunch anti-gun control people.

Obama didn't address gun control. He addressed gun violence.

What I find really telling is the divisiveness of the American populace. I find it hard to believe that Obama can win his first term on a platform of anti-war and hope and change, and then give the people even more Orwellian two minute hate and also perpetrate the biggest financial heist in history, and still have a fan club! I guess when you have 57 states it is hard to come together as a people and be resolute in your convictions. Seeing how I view my neighbors to the South as much like me, just wanting a job and enough to take home to feed and clothe the family, it makes me sad to see you all beat down with a bunch of bundled up sticks.