UK.. We Messed Up Letting The Government Take Our Guns..

reply to post by skalla


I was rhetorically answering

Seems you need to look into it more.
Gun cabinets are very expensive. A new rifle is closer to a few thousand. (dependent on what you get, of course)
I'm sure secondhand would be a lot cheaper - though i cannot say i have looked into that.

It has nothing to do with budgeting - the issue is not cost as such. The issue is the hurdles required to be jumped through in terms of background checking, club memberships, continual intrusion into your home by the police to 'check it'..... etc etc....... This is why i stated the affluent/well connected seem to be whom it is aimed at. Joe Public will find it more challenging - and it is this way by design.

Look into it chap. Not as simple as you are making out. Not by a long shot.

reply to post by Quadraphobe


join a gun club and network a bit, the example of a gunowner i provided is not the only gun owner i know either, so my own experiences inform my opinion, and as you said on the exoskeleton thread, poverty is a neccessary evil and we cant all be equal.

if you really wanted a rifle that bad you would have been able to get one by now, and when we start to drive we cant mewl about not affording a mercedes, we start of with a nissan.

reply to post by Quadraphobe


As another member said on this site somewhere......it's your RIGHT to own a shotgun, the onus is on the police to prove you are not fit....however, it is up to you to prove why you want to own a rifle.

And it isn't that expensive, I've seen them as cheap as £400 new, and I wasn't even looking.

reply to post by skalla


Again - a GROSS oversimplification..... To put this to rest, i shall i guess have to explain why it is not a simple as you make out..... I assure you money is not the issue as if it was, i could buy 10 guns a month practically.
Nor do i have a criminal record that would make me struggle to pass the disclosure - on the contrary, i work in a job that has me hold several classes of security clearance WAY above any clearance they require for a firearm - so that also isnt the issue. The issue is what they make you do to get one, and to continue owning it.

The FAC license (Firearms Class xxx) that can be acquired in this country has certain caveats to it.
First of all, you CANNOT own your own firearm from word go. You simply cannot just apply for a FAC1 license, get it, and buy a gun legally. It is more complex and convoluted than that.
You first have to be member of a gun club (which is not cheap btw).
You then have to have attended a certain number of times, regularly, spread over a few months - and have a membership attendance form signed by the chairman of the club each time you attend.
You can then apply for a weapon in the class you are attending the club for, if the club signs off on it.
Then you have to pay for an Extended-CRB background check after you have the club permission to use a weapon of your own on their premises. This costs money, and takes a while to achieve.

Then you have to have a certain class of cabinet rated to protect your firearm - and i assure you, look around, they are A LOT of money. It must be placed where the police instruct you to place it.
You are only allowed a certain number of rounds per FAC licensed firearm you hold and must account for every single round shot, every shell casing, the location you were shooting, the name of the person/club that authorized you to shoot on their premises, when this was, who was in attendance etc.

And, oddly, i can have a military caliber weapon quite legally, 5.56/.223, called a Fullbore License in the UK - yet a smaller 9mm round pistol is illegal (im sure the argument is its easier to conceal) - which would b more useful for home defense than a rifle IMO.

I agree, all are not equal as i said in another thread. It seems this inequality is widening with each passing day, to the detriment of all.

So, a LOT or hurdles to jump through. A hell of a lot. Not a simple process by any means. I agree there must be measures and checks - but that is SEVERE overkill.

reply to post by Quadraphobe


then why dont you have a gun?

Originally posted by glen200376

Originally posted by faryjay
I am happy we don't have guns in UK and I'm sure I speak for a lot of the people in UK.

I feel a lot safer without gun wielding crack nuts running around.

i take it you dont live in a city.i can assure you there are plenty of gun wielding crack nuts running around with guns,a lot of them drug dealing nigerian scum.you better hope they dont come to your leafy hamlet or your views may change drastically.

I live in a city and very close to a gang area called Moss Side ... Never had any gun problems, me or my family. Please don't assume where I live without actually knowing.

reply to post by faryjay


i used to live by platt fields for some considerable time, more or less inbetween mossside and longsight and there were quite a few drug related shootings there, but it was scumbag on scumbag and i never felt unsafe in manchester either, and was never of a feeling that i needed a firearm, let alone a pointy stick.

reply to post by skalla


2 Reasons :

a) I do not live close to any shooting club. That kills it right there. No shooting club membership, no license.

b) I do not accept the need to continually check me at every twist and turn. That smacks of big brother. There has to be checks, of course - but the current system is overkill and deliberately designed as an obstruction.

I suppose i could drive to one (a club) - but the closest is quite some distance from me. It just adds to the cost.

reply to post by Quadraphobe


fair do's, but you have the finances, good standing and the neccessary knowledge of the process and have made the decision that you dont want to jump through the hoops. i appreciate that you disagree with the process involved but the checks and balances do have a value in my opinion and i'm glad that they are in place (inspite of the fact that some crim can rent a handgun in a dodgy pub for a couple of hundred quid for example, as they certainly can). if you wanted a gun you could still have gone through that process and just taken it on the chin, it's not as if the inspectors are gonna find a problem when they spend all of a minute checking your set up (which is all it takes when they visit gunowners i know).

i respect your opinion, but i'm happy with how things are

reply to post by skalla


And i respect your right to disagree. I enjoy a debate with a level-headed, intelligent individual such as yourself such that even though we dont agree, we can still discuss things like gentlemen.

I do not agree however. Too many hurdles. There has to be checks i agree. But it is just severe overkill at the moment. A new process is needed. It clearly needs reforming. This is, of course, just my humble opinion.

reply to post by Hopeforeveryone

Saying that I don't really believe we have a democracy but that's another story.

You've just highlighted the OP's point completely. The rest of your post is just a contradiction to that point.

reply to post by Quadraphobe


i take my hat off to you sir, i too have enjoyed the exchange

reply to post by Hopeforeveryone


Read history man.

reply to post by Hopeforeveryone


Get a grip! You are a fool if you think the people actually have any type of effect on who gets into office. Come on back through the looking glass Alice! Have a look at the real world!

reply to post by Quadraphobe


Where firearms are concerned, I'd rather have serious overkill than scandalous laxity. As for your not accepting the amount of hoops you have to jump through as being reasonable - tough luck, the rest of society are happy that the barrier to getting a gun isn't just down to a person never having been caught for a violent crime.

I'm glad there's a difference between us and the other side of the pond as we have different views...do i want drunken chav's running around with guns on a Saturday night? hell no....we're pretty much happy with how things are and a sudden change by allowing everyone and their pissed up uncle to go around town with a browning machine gun and a few thousand rounds just to settle a problem where someone got served at the pub before another would be an absolute license for carnage....and think about it we have enough trouble with bad kids etc...bad kids with guns will really top the biscuit

and police officers generally don't want to be armed to respond to everything from a cat up a tree and consider it a potential place where they may get fired at

reply to post by skitzspiricy


I disagree. While gun activists don't make up the whole country there are millions that are armed in this country and gun activists are some of the most passionate people about their beliefs that I know of.

reply to post by SpearMint


They would never win. How can you win when everyone is dead? The government and the army are still a minority. Also, chances are, not every soldier will turn on his own people in such a war. The US GOVERNMENT ARE TOO VULNERABLE RIGHT NOW TO EVEN RISK TAKING THE CITIZENS GUNS AWAY...

Sorry caps.

We in the UK like sheep willingly gave up our arms via fear based propaganda and marketing which has allowed successive governments to ride rough shod over us with impunity..

reply to post by EvanB


Except there are nearly 4,000,000 legal arms in England and Wales alone.

Again, ignorance and cynicism won't deter the fact that the other side of the Atlantic is ahead on the dystopian curve...

Tony Martin was woken up in the middle of the night by two burglers who invaded his rural home.. He shot them with a shotgun.. One of them died.. The other lived to claim compensation for his injuries.. Tony Martin got put in jail for manslaughter... For protecting his home and possesions..

reply to post by EvanB


A real life exception, not example.