I pledged an oath, so what do I do?

The President or the officers placed over you may give you an unlawful order. The Constitution will never do that.

did the oath really have help me god in it? or was it phrased differently?

Presidents come and presidents go but the constitution is steadfast it is always there and unchanged, My allegiance is to the constitution not to the president De Jour.

reply to post by obnoxiouschick


You can see them all right here, in their historical forms as well.

Oaths of Enlistment and Oaths of Office

reply to post by ADVISOR


Your link does not work!

Looked interesting

P

Originally posted by obnoxiouschick
did the oath really have help me god in it? or was it phrased differently?

Really?

One Nation, under God, with Liberty, and Justice for all.

In God We Trust

seriously...

To the OP,

So, I will be the first to ask.. going out on a limb here.

Is there a specific reason you asked? Are you... trying to tell us something?

funny how reading things gets imprinted in my head like a recording....I clearly remember what I READ what did u read?

Be careful what you post on here, please

What should you do? Simple, head forward, and keep doing your job. The only time you should think about desertion is if a revolution begins. Until then. Don't post things like that on the Internet until you get out.

Seriously.

Originally posted by Tardacus
Presidents come and presidents go but the constitution is steadfast it is always there and unchanged, My allegiance is to the constitution not to the president De Jour.

The Constitution has been amended many times and has never been steadfast thus the genius of the document. Else we would have slaves, and only rich white men would be allowed to vote. Of course the Courts have the job to decide what is or is not constitutional and if the President or Congress actions are in violation of it.

Originally posted by Libertygal

Originally posted by obnoxiouschick
did the oath really have help me god in it? or was it phrased differently?

Really?

One Nation, under God, with Liberty, and Justice for all.

In God We Trust

seriously...

The pledge of obedience, err... "allegiance" didn't include the word "God" until 1954. The motivation for doing so is a matter of academic debate (some would argue that it was in response to and in rejection of the irreligious nature of state-communism, i.e. the Red Scare), however it shows that the wording has changed over time as a matter of political expediency. It's an empty sentiment, and a foolish one in the first place; swearing your allegiance to an instrument of your own slavery.

"In God We Trust" didn't appear on money until the Civil War, and that was only on coins until 1957 when they put it on the paper too. So it's not like "this is the way it's always been". What has remained constant is politicians' shameless use of the word "god" in pursuit of power.

While this thread is about an oath to the Constitution, not the pledge or our currency, your examples do shed light on how people are manipulated into accepting state-violence. These days, if you're in the military and want to take this oath seriously, you need to resign immediately. The president has no intention of abiding by the principles in the constitution, and he said just as much yesterday in his news conference.

So how you keep your oath is clear. You either remove all the bastards from office by force or you simply resign and refuse to follow their orders anymore. It's pretty cut & dry to me.

reply to post by NthOther


GGGEE well if u say SO .....WHAT

Uniform Code of MilitaryJustice

This is the Code by which you swear to adhere. To me this reads as tho the PUSA is the final word on pretty much every portion of this. Sets limits, is the highest authority, can dismiss charges, detail sentencing, etc.

But let's say you, Joe Dogface wants to bring charges against the president. First off, I see no precedent or by-law for that. It would be unique. Tho, in reading the above article and this one by Wiki it's not impossible. But would create a power play for the presidency pro-tem. I also would have to say could be held in a public court.

When I say "public court", the way I read this, is that as a GI you can bring about charges of a court marshal against those both above you and below you in rank. The court itself is supposed to be held in front of five, three or in the most extreme situations seen by a single judge of higher authority than the accused. According to these two links, there is no higher authority that the PUSA.

I disagree.

I voted you in. I took The Oath as a public servant in emergency services and when I worked at the post office. Should I choose to bring charges against the pres, I would think that any members of the American public whose income does not rely on government dollars should be the presiding review board.

Do whatever you think you have to.

An oath?

Hell, I'll take oaths all day long. Is there some magic oath monster that will eat my face off if I break one?

When using the measure of past behavior your "word" is worth more than any "oath" but it still isnt absolute.

Dont trust anyone to do or not do anything regardless of oath taken or word given. They're just words.

You dont know what you or anyone else will do until you do it.

While 'oaths' are just voice utterances from the human body, can considered by some as meaningless, only as good as it serves one's benefit and to be discarded when the benefit is gone, there IS more to an oath than that.

It is honor, within a CIVILISED SOCIETY, a man's word, who will live up to that promise come what may, OTHERWISE, he will be ostracized, cast out and exile from his society whom will NEVER trust him again.

We can lose our human body, but we CANNOT lose our words kept. We came with nothing and will leave with nothing, but it will be the memory of us that will be left behind to others, as role models with good will, or to be spat upon for dishonoring ourselves to the agreed upon laws of our society.

Next - who is the President but only the elected leader and representative of the People, another equal human but similarly has flaws just like every mortal on Earth?

In dictatorships, the breaking of oaths to the leader/tyrant is punishable by death, for the tyrant is law unto himself, as he whims it.

In a Republic, the President is answerable to the People who elected him.

If he passes a law arbitarily that the majority of the nation is against it, but is absolutely necessary and unpopular for the survival of a nation, then it IS his duty to CONVINCE fully the purpose of such a law, to help others see the importance of such a law.

However, if the President passes a law arbitarily that majority of the nation is against it, and cannot convince the nation whom are not fools and idiots, then he would have deemed to have failed as a leader, and had reverted to what he truly is - a flawed mortal who had usurp his power over the common masses.

I can see where the question aroused from, for I am not apathetic to the gun debates raging. For the President to arbitarily seek the EO is highly questionable, more so when there are had been logic and reason to keep weapons as guaranteed by the sacred Constitution, that even anti-gun lobbies cannot argue successfully against.

To ban lawful citizens from owning weapons including assualt riftes and magazines, are only depriving them of self protection of both foreign and domestic, but ensuring criminals or the insane who can get access to them dish out worse violence.

The anti gun lobby is a minority but are VERY LOUD,illogically so. They claim guns causes violence, but when challenge them if we do away with guns, can they guarantee that there WILL BE NO MORE, NOT EVEN ONE SINGLE violent incident in USA? - they dare not, but look away and mouth their illogical BS over and over again.

The solution to violence lays deeper than guns. It is the mentality of humans, not tools, that needs to be researched and addressed if we are to end violence. It will not be overnight, but long term, and have to start somewhere. Banning guns or dishonoring the sacred Constitution will get us nowhere, when gun is NOT the ROOT cause.

reply to post by iSHRED

but I also swore to obey the president. But based on what I currently see, they contradict each other....

The "just following orders" excuse doesnt fly.
Theres your answer. If given an illegal order and you obey, youll pay for it in the future.

reply to post by iSHRED


Unconstitutional or unlawful orders can and must be ignored….that's a fact. The proof can be found in the UCMJ itself.

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.

link


Semper Fi

Originally posted by iSHRED
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).


That is the oath i swore to when I joined the Marine Corps. I pledged to both defend the constitution from enemies foreign and DOMESTIC, but I also swore to obey the president. But based on what I currently see, they contradict each other....

So how can I possibly keep my oath?


I know right and wrong in my heart and am aware of what is right in this situation, but the validity of my word is also important to me.

The answer to your dilemma is there in the Document before you and that my friend is the order in which you make that Oath.

First to the Constitution.....

then...the President.

It is in that order for a reason.

I think you know where this is going.

To defend the Constitution from all enemies both Foreign and DOMESTIC.....INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT.

The people of the United States are the De-facto Sovereign Masters of the their Destiny and the Directors/Owners of the Land and all it's Wealth.

Politicians, Lawmakers and the Judiciary are endowed with powers given to them by the people, so that they may enact their various roles within the Constitution, those powers are given by consent and can be revoked by the people at any time.

The true problem you have ...is the worst nightmare scenario.

Power has been usurped from within in a slow an insidious way...such a way that many are not even aware that it has already happened.

I'm not even American...but I tell you...if the US loses it's Constitution and Bill of Rights, then that's it....we are ALL doomed to a Fascist/Communist dystopian future that we may never overthrow...they will be just too powerful.

Follow the Constitution.....trust the Founding Fathers.....they knew what they were building.....
If these traitors throw you in jail for disobeying something that contravenes the Constitution....then be willing to suffer that....for all humanity who value Freedom, Equality and Justice for all.

You will have stood by your Oath, Kept your Word and your Honor.

There is no disgrace in standing up to Treason and defending what still remains YOUR NATION.

Yes....you are in a battle....already it surrounds you......but you are far from alone.

C...

After the Vietnam war where whole villages were slaughtered they added a little bit to the oath, you do not have to obey an order that goes against your conscience. I believe Generals must obey the POTUS no matter what. Below that, let your conscience be your guide.

Originally posted by MrSpad

Originally posted by Tardacus
Presidents come and presidents go but the constitution is steadfast it is always there and unchanged, My allegiance is to the constitution not to the president De Jour.

The Constitution has been amended many times and has never been steadfast thus the genius of the document. Else we would have slaves, and only rich white men would be allowed to vote. Of course the Courts have the job to decide what is or is not constitutional and if the President or Congress actions are in violation of it.

Indeed the world in which the Constitution was created was far from perfect.....but it was written with a better world in mind.

It was also written with other counties in mind.....to be taken up by other Nations when and if the people so chose to do.

But what has changed...do slaves no longer exist ? is it not Rich White men that Dictate the Policies ?

Nothing has changed....the fight goes on.

C..