I pledged an oath, so what do I do?

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).


That is the oath i swore to when I joined the Marine Corps. I pledged to both defend the constitution from enemies foreign and DOMESTIC, but I also swore to obey the president. But based on what I currently see, they contradict each other....

So how can I possibly keep my oath?


I know right and wrong in my heart and am aware of what is right in this situation, but the validity of my word is also important to me.

reply to post by iSHRED


When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson

Many people "see" it for what it is.

I will tell you this. You are not alone in thinking the way you do.

Thanks for your service.

S&F

Originally posted by iSHRED
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).


That is the oath i swore to when I joined the Marine Corps. I pledged to both defend the constitution from enemies foreign and DOMESTIC, but I also swore to obey the president. But based on what I currently see, they contradict each other....

So how can I possibly keep my oath?


I know right and wrong in my heart and am aware of what is right in this situation, but the validity of my word is also important to me.

It's called lawful and unlawful orders. It's pretty easy to disparage between the two. Even in an unjust war...

As a civilian who has not personally served, I want to add my opinion. Your oath is as much to the chain of command and men appointed above you ...in that order above you ... as to the Office of the Commander and Chief or the Constitution...Either of them.

The point there is, the people at the top of the Military in Uniform today are in a position to see and know far more than we are. If...in crazy town (who knows any more, at times...-nervous laugh-) it was thought the Government went THAT far over the line....

...Then as a civilian, I would hope guys who know right from wrong and apply it WOULD be among the Marine Corps and the other services as well. Insuring that is the majority and not minority in the Services can make all the difference, really. Just my thoughts.

Originally posted by iSHRED
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).


That is the oath i swore to when I joined the Marine Corps. I pledged to both defend the constitution from enemies foreign and DOMESTIC, but I also swore to obey the president. But based on what I currently see, they contradict each other....

So how can I possibly keep my oath?


I know right and wrong in my heart and am aware of what is right in this situation, but the validity of my word is also important to me.

Yeah, I hear ya, bud. Those words still nudge at my conscience even after all these years (Navy, 1968-72)--in fact now more than ever before.

It's unfortunate that our founders didn't see their way clear to offer a little more direct method for We The People to take action in times like these when they wrote the Republic's laws. But I suppose they did all they could: They repeatedly gave broad hints about what our duty is in such a situation. And I think they may have done it the way they did for a good reason: Taking this situation in hand is an extremely serious matter, and they understood how difficult it would be--and knew that it's not to be undertaken lightly.

I'm biding my time. At a certain point I expect it will make itself very clear what we're to do....

actually, that oath is very simple, order first......Constitution first. When in conflict of each other, refer to the higher power.....The Constitution gives power to the President, so on and so forth...If an ethical situation in which an unlawful order is given, it is the duty of the individual to question that order.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The oath is in order of importance.. You swear first to the constitution, then the president, then the officers.. It's in Order of the chain of command..

It's about the constitution which takes up half the oath..

""I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same"


I WILL Keep My oath as well.. I Promised.

It reads defend the constitution against all enemies foreign or domestic, not defend the US against all enemies, which clearly puts the constitution above the US, hinting that the US isn't the most high thing to defend, and when the US goes against the constitution, they are now the enemy.. Easy.

Originally posted by iSHRED
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).


That is the oath i swore to when I joined the Marine Corps. I pledged to both defend the constitution from enemies foreign and DOMESTIC, but I also swore to obey the president. But based on what I currently see, they contradict each other....

So how can I possibly keep my oath?


I know right and wrong in my heart and am aware of what is right in this situation, but the validity of my word is also important to me.

You keep your oath by keeping it.
In order:
1st- I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
2nd- I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same
3rd-I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me

reply to post by iSHRED
your first duty and oath is to what? pretty simple and in plain text: if you know the words then you know the answer! all the rest is a judgment call, is the order give right, just and up holding to the Constitution and the nation as a hole? does it go against the USMC? if any or all are a yes then you by right can say no i will not obey

you will know what to do when that day comes.

reply to post by randomtangentsrme
not so fast, lets say I am a LT your a privet i order to you to burn down a hut do you obey?
Or i am the pres and say i want all fire arms in the city of DC to be collected do you obey?

Let's look at this part:

"...according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."

Is there something in the UCMJ that says that you do not have to obey an illegal order? Would an order that contradicts the constitution be considered illegal?

reply to post by iSHRED


Repeat this first part, once for each time you question yourself, and remember, this was placed in front for a reason.

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same

Well, if the SHTF, I'd forgive you if you disobeyed your oath to a dictator president, to help preserve liberty and freedom for the people and the constitution. I'm sure others wouldn't mind it either.

reply to post by AwakeinNM
YES if the order given is to be carried in the USA, and it does go against the Constitution, but the how many in today's mil know the US Constitution?

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
Let's look at this part:

"...according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."

Is there something in the UCMJ that says that you do not have to obey an illegal order? Would an order that contradicts the constitution be considered illegal?

You are not supposed to obey illegal orders, and under UCMJ you are protected from any blow back afterward, as long as it is true that it was an illegal order.. Now Your commander can make your life really hard in the mean time.. Seeing as I have been discharged I only can obey the constitution and State law, and morality.. Everything else better get off it.

An order that contradicts the constitution should be considered illegal, seeing as how that's the base that all power is derived from besides god as the giver of rights that are assumed, like life..

I agree with the majority but would go even further.

"I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same."

If you are asked by anyone to violate the constitution you should and must consider them a domestic enemy and take appropriate MILITARY action! You must DEFEND the constitution against ALL enemies as a soldier.

It is simple!

Remember, everyone above you took an identical oath. Just because they are willing to break their oath does not mean you can break yours.

The idea of "I was just following orders" was nullified at the Nuremberg Trials. This was largely done by the US.

P

reply to post by bekod


Oh God - I hope they all do considering they swore an oath to protect it...

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by randomtangentsrme

 

not so fast, lets say I am a LT your a privet i order to you to burn down a hut do you obey?
Or i am the pres and say i want all fire arms in the city of DC to be collected do you obey?

OK cool. I like lets pretend: You are Lithuania and I am a shrub, no I do not obey as I am unable to.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Now, if you were my Lieutenant, and I a Private, if your order was in my eyes unconstitutional, I would refuse and face court martial.
This is why I did not join the military.

While I disagree with your premise -- I don't think that the gun control measures being attempted and proposed are exactly opposed to the 2nd amendment -- I would have to say that if they are, your duty is first to the constitution. The constitution forms the basis of the united states and your authority in the military. The president is meant to execute that constitution, and were the president to, say, order you to execute people who had spoken ill but non-threateningly of him, your oath would unquestionably be first to the constitution.

Please use measured reason in your actions, though. violence is a very final decision in these cases. I urge you not to do anything rash, for all of our sakes.