Should Churchill be seen as a warmonger and partial escalator of WW2?

whatever dude, you just want to frame me as a bad guy anyway, so I'll just stop posting in my own thread, it's senseless to talk about this if you can't concede anything bye

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening
whatever dude, you just want to frame me as a bad guy anyway, so I'll just stop posting in my own thread, it's senseless to talk about this if you can't concede anything bye

You've proved nothing, you've shown a poor grasp of facts and you've shown that you don't understand some aspects of warfare and politics. No-one's saying go away - welcome to the forum! But for pities sake if you have an argument to make, make sure that it's a coherent and well argued one, with cites and verifiable facts! The moment that you claimed that Poland stole 99% German land after Versailles loud alarm bells began ringing for me.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening
whatever dude, you just want to frame me as a bad guy anyway, so I'll just stop posting in my own thread, it's senseless to talk about this if you can't concede anything bye

You've proved nothing, you've shown a poor grasp of facts and you've shown that you don't understand some aspects of warfare and politics. No-one's saying go away - welcome to the forum! But for pities sake if you have an argument to make, make sure that it's a coherent and well argued one, with cites and verifiable facts! The moment that you claimed that Poland stole 99% German land after Versailles loud alarm bells began ringing for me.

Poland DID receive 99% German land lol...

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening
whatever dude, you just want to frame me as a bad guy anyway, so I'll just stop posting in my own thread, it's senseless to talk about this if you can't concede anything bye

You've proved nothing, you've shown a poor grasp of facts and you've shown that you don't understand some aspects of warfare and politics. No-one's saying go away - welcome to the forum! But for pities sake if you have an argument to make, make sure that it's a coherent and well argued one, with cites and verifiable facts! The moment that you claimed that Poland stole 99% German land after Versailles loud alarm bells began ringing for me.

Poland DID receive 99% German land...

(Facepalm) If you are referring to West Prussia and parts of Silesia, then strictly speaking it was German because it had previously belonged to Germany. However demographically speaking the majority of people there were Poles. That's why they got transferred to Poland. They were only in Germany because of Prussia's participation in the deeply shameful Partitions of Poland, when the Prussians stole Polish land. By the way there were numerous plebiscites in the disputed areas. Some were won by the Germans. Some were won by the Poles. There. Lecture over.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening
whatever dude, you just want to frame me as a bad guy anyway, so I'll just stop posting in my own thread, it's senseless to talk about this if you can't concede anything bye

You've proved nothing, you've shown a poor grasp of facts and you've shown that you don't understand some aspects of warfare and politics. No-one's saying go away - welcome to the forum! But for pities sake if you have an argument to make, make sure that it's a coherent and well argued one, with cites and verifiable facts! The moment that you claimed that Poland stole 99% German land after Versailles loud alarm bells began ringing for me.

Poland DID receive 99% German land...

(Facepalm) If you are referring to West Prussia and parts of Silesia, then strictly speaking it was German because it had previously belonged to Germany. However demographically speaking the majority of people there were Poles. That's why they got transferred to Poland. They were only in Germany because of Prussia's participation in the deeply shameful Partitions of Poland, when the Prussians stole Polish land. By the way there were numerous plebiscites in the disputed areas. Some were won by the Germans. Some were won by the Poles. There. Lecture over.

are you Polish by any chance? Then I would understand and I would stop if this is personal for you, I could totally understand. I still stand by my own thoughts, the later allies secretly influenced the plebiscites, some were practically "bought". But I'll stop for you, sorry if you feel offended, I have my opinions, you yours...

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening
are you Polish by any chance? Then I would understand and I would stop if this is personal for you, I could totally understand. I still stand by my own thoughts, the later allies secretly influenced the plebiscites, some were practically "bought". But I'll stop for you, sorry if you feel offended, I have my opinions, you yours...

No, I'm Welsh. Hence my user name. However, I have a degree in History and I have studied this period. Your thoughts appear to be at variance to the actual facts on the ground.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening
are you Polish by any chance? Then I would understand and I would stop if this is personal for you, I could totally understand. I still stand by my own thoughts, the later allies secretly influenced the plebiscites, some were practically "bought". But I'll stop for you, sorry if you feel offended, I have my opinions, you yours...

No, I'm Welsh. Hence my user name. However, I have a degree in History and I have studied this period. Your thoughts appear to be at variance to the actual facts on the ground.

then we agree to disagree, as long as you don't give my (factual, but you wont admit that) claims a chance, there's no use, so thanks for contributing to this discussion, bye

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening
are you Polish by any chance? Then I would understand and I would stop if this is personal for you, I could totally understand. I still stand by my own thoughts, the later allies secretly influenced the plebiscites, some were practically "bought". But I'll stop for you, sorry if you feel offended, I have my opinions, you yours...

No, I'm Welsh. Hence my user name. However, I have a degree in History and I have studied this period. Your thoughts appear to be at variance to the actual facts on the ground.

then we agree to disagree, as long as you don't give my (factual, but you wont admit that) claims a chance, there's no use, so thanks for contributing to this discussion, bye

Running away from people who say that they have better facts than you do is not a good idea on this forum. In this case I know that I do have better facts than you do, so I'm chalking this one up as an overwhelming victory and moving on.
Mods, please close this thread!

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening
are you Polish by any chance? Then I would understand and I would stop if this is personal for you, I could totally understand. I still stand by my own thoughts, the later allies secretly influenced the plebiscites, some were practically "bought". But I'll stop for you, sorry if you feel offended, I have my opinions, you yours...

No, I'm Welsh. Hence my user name. However, I have a degree in History and I have studied this period. Your thoughts appear to be at variance to the actual facts on the ground.

then we agree to disagree, as long as you don't give my (factual, but you wont admit that) claims a chance, there's no use, so thanks for contributing to this discussion, bye

Running away from people who say that they have better facts than you do is not a good idea on this forum. In this case I know that I do have better facts than you do, so I'm chalking this one up as an overwhelming victory and moving on.
Mods, please close this thread!

no one's running away, and no mods, please don't close this thread, because I'm interested in what other still might have to say. overwhelming victory lol, if it makes you feel good, ok, bye

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening
no one's running away, and no mods, please don't close this thread, because I'm interested in what other still might have to say. overwhelming victory lol, if it makes you feel good, ok, bye

You're the one who decided to walk away from this. Ok, answer me this:

a) How did Churchill start the war if he was a backbencher on September 1, 1939, the day that Hitler invaded Poland without even bothering to issue a declation of war?
b) Why do you think that pre-WW1 Germany contained large numbers of Poles on land that became part of Poland after the war?
c) Do you really trhink that David Irving can still be regarded as a credible historian after being totally discredited time and again?
d) Where's your proof that the Soviets were about to invade in 1941?

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by ConservativeAwakening
no one's running away, and no mods, please don't close this thread, because I'm interested in what other still might have to say. overwhelming victory lol, if it makes you feel good, ok, bye

You're the one who decided to walk away from this. Ok, answer me this:

a) How did Churchill start the war if he was a backbencher on September 1, 1939, the day that Hitler invaded Poland without even bothering to issue a declation of war?
b) Why do you think that pre-WW1 Germany contained large numbers of Poles on land that became part of Poland after the war?
c) Do you really trhink that David Irving can still be regarded as a credible historian after being totally discredited time and again?
d) Where's your proof that the Soviets were about to invade in 1941?

I'll promise you I'll give you those points tomorrow, but for now I'll say bye, thank you, come again

reply to post by ConservativeAwakening


Please do. It should be interesting.

reply to post by ConservativeAwakening


I don't know about Churchill but you Britons ARE seen as traitors in the eyes of the Australians.

reply to post by OpenSky


What, all of them ? Bit of a generalisation there. Maybe if you refined your comment to politicians then i'd have to agree. They've been shafting all of us in every country since year 1.

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by OpenSky

 

What, all of them ? Bit of a generalisation there. Maybe if you refined your comment to politicians then i'd have to agree. They've been shafting all of us in every country since year 1.

All real Aussies should hate the British for their betrayal. You can't trust them.

reply to post by OpenSky


I'm curious as to what betrayal you think every one in the UK should be branded a traitor ? I'm incredulous that all sixty million of us have somehow offended your sensibilities.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by ConservativeAwakening

 

In Churchill's memoirs, he notes how when US President, Franklin D. Roosevelt called him and asked "What shall we call this war" he immediately retorted "The unnecessary war!"

When we look at the causes and the support and financing of Hitler's build up in preparation for war, we see all kinds of strange things, including American-based financing and support from the Vatican.

No I wouldn't lay it at Churchill's feet, nor even entirely at Hitler's. There were other forces at work and in play which helped to set the stage.

NAM...a wonderfully succinct summary...of any war really, let's face it.

One of my favourite quotes from Churchill..."History will be kind to me, because I intend to write it." Too true, it was, is and will continue to be. Only in the past twenty years or so have we started to see an honest picture of WW2 emerging from the archives, particularly since the fall of the Iron Curtain...and it will be years yet before the rest of those archives lose their official secrets stamp.

There are a lot of old chestnuts being thrown around this thread now, from all angles, and sadly what started out as a reasonably intelligent discussion has descended into the same useless posturing.

Shame, but there you go.

Thanks for that tight little summary.

I am going to leave it with that rather than further denting anyone's delicate sensibilities

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


There are plenty of facts in there. If you are referring to laying blame for these wars at the feet of international banking, as I said already, who knows how true it is, I said there are plenty of conspiracies about it, and just showing some of them here on ATS the conspiracy site.

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by OpenSky

 

I'm curious as to what betrayal you think every one in the UK should be branded a traitor ? I'm incredulous that all sixty million of us have somehow offended your sensibilities.

We Australians came to Britains call for help in WW1, ultimately sending 60 thousand of our children to be killed and over 400 thousand to be wounded.

Yet during our darkest hour, in the Battle for Australia, we pleaded for the British to come to our aid. What did they do? Spat in our faces, no help was sent.

You can never trust the traitor Brits.

Originally posted by OpenSky

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by OpenSky

 

I'm curious as to what betrayal you think every one in the UK should be branded a traitor ? I'm incredulous that all sixty million of us have somehow offended your sensibilities.

We Australians came to Britains call for help in WW1, ultimately sending 60 thousand of our children to be killed and over 400 thousand to be wounded.

Yet during our darkest hour, in the Battle for Australia, we pleaded for the British to come to our aid. What did they do? Spat in our faces, no help was sent.

You can never trust the traitor Brits.

God i love some of the comments on ATS!