What will happen if there is a civil war in America?

Insurrection and the Southern Border.

One element of successful insurgencies is foreign support. Most insurgencies would never succeed without (and sometimes even with) money, comfort and arms from abroad. The US was sustained by imperial France throughout the American Revolution. The Vietnamese got major support from Russia and China. Mujahideen got support from the USA. Of course, the insurgents in Iraq were getting help from Iran, but it didn't save them as long as the US was in-country.

So... in the event of a rebellion in the US...

There's a 2000-mile border with Mexico, with no natural boundaries and through badlands that are difficult to police. In addition, the narco-trafficos would be happy to finance a revolution using drugs as the medium of exchange for heavy military supplies.

It happened in the Opium War, it happened in Vietnam, it has happened in Afghanistan: foreign support and drug trafficking finances the insurgency

Something to think about.

reply to post by tovenar


You, Tovenar, with you're pencil-drawn, wizard likeness, have posted some good stuff. I'd venture a guess that you really know your :poop:

Thanks for the input, and that goes to everybody, this is the most successful thread I've authored, and we've had some good discussions, I hope they continue.

reply to post by fawlty


Replying too SUPERMAN (that's funny and ironic):

I can build A home from scratch with my hands, i can build a fire, i know local antibiotics from the
Plants around me. I was raised in the SF world, i became SF, my family and me could survive for years
Off the land and be safe. It only takes intelligence, common sense, and the desire too do so.

You, though, sir, mr. "superman" and you're family would be screwed.

reply to post by Generator85


Replying to your comments, the military wouldn't have a say.

As i stated before, a "new" war would breakout sending those troops overseas, thuskeeping them
Out of the fight, and controlling their Intel.

Originally posted by AutomaticSlim
reply to post by Thunder heart woman

 

I agree with your assessment. At the end of the video clip, the soldier plainly states, that "you don't want to think about what you are gonna have to do, if someone pops around a corner..." The newsguy says, " you mean shoot an American." The soldier says, "Yeah."

This is one soldier, but it makes one wonder, how many others would shoot an American as part of doing their job.

I could be waaay off on this, since I did not watch the video... But I'm gonna take a wild leap here and say that I'm pretty sure he meant if someone pops around the corner with a gun. Anybody would have to make a decision at that point. Kill or be killed.

It is interesting though to consider whether or not it could be considered self defense on part of the soldier. He's entered someone's home to take property, which is grounds to get your head blown off in some places.

Originally posted by JerkyBeer
reply to post by fawlty

 

Replying too SUPERMAN (that's funny and ironic):

I can build A home from scratch with my hands, i can build a fire, i know local antibiotics from the
Plants around me. I was raised in the SF world, i became SF, my family and me could survive for years
Off the land and be safe. It only takes intelligence, common sense, and the desire too do so.

You, though, sir, mr. "superman" and you're family would be screwed.

Oh yah? Well I can skin a buck, I can run a trout line, make my own whiskey, and my own smoke too.
I say grace, I say mam, if you ain't into that I don't give a damn.

Originally posted by k1k1to

Originally posted by wulff
To K1K1

Sir, I think you are the one that in your liberal thinking has been brainwashed by the media 'hook line and sinker'!
You have a very low opinion of our warriors in uniform!
You can sit out the coming (possible) war in "Peace" along with your friends in your hippie communes while others (defenders of the constitution) protect your a$$.
Sorry but I really don't believe you when you say you have a lot of friends that is in the military,

edit on 16-1-2013 by wulff because: (no reason given)

haha oh friend, i am far from a peace loving hippie.

i think you might have misinterpreted my posts..you underestimate me...i like that, maybe that gives me an advantage in a SHTF situation...but thats another story...

i am far from a tree hugging "peace pipe" hippie...in my opinion i think the media and people in general romanticize and gives them more credit than they deserve to the people in uniform... i dont want to give any information that will compromise me, but i have worked very closely with both military and police men and women, and i will tell you that they are some of the most corrupt people in society. and i stand by that statement

if the time to TRULY defend or get back our freedom comes...i will be at the front lines

but dont be surprised if you get your door kicked down one night and it turns out that it is a fellow "man in uniform" doing it.

I stand corrected and see where you are coming from now, I just think that if we are indeed heading for a 2nd civil war there will be a lot of uniforms that will be on 'our' side, I am aware that in any war there are people in uniform that has more respect for the man in office than the country (Hitler's SS is a good example) and that makes me think of a statement Obama said during his 2008 campaign where he talked about a "special group that will be better equipped than the military!" why did this not get any attention? What exactly was he saying? It sounded so much like Hitler saying he couldn't trust the regular Army so he needed the SS as a group of 'bodyguards' that only had allegiance to him!

reply to post by wulff




This "secret" strike force group that he mentioned is what scares the crap out of me...i think we have all watched too many movies, to be honest and realistic i would probably end up dying within the first months of any kind of turmoil that would occur in this country...especially if they bring out the elite SS task force.

Those who surive would most likely run for the woods..eventually many would die of starvation..finally about 3/4 of the initial survivors will give up and give in...only those who die will experience true freedom and liberty...eventually an international government would be installed.

Sadly the story that the OP described sounds like something out of terminator or something...highly unlikeley..the majority of human beings are cowards and would stab their own kind in the back for some hot soup and a roof over their heads...

Freedom in death

I read through several pages and signed up for an account. I have a question and am unsure if it has been answered in replies past page 5. Replies have been made that the Gov would send "spies" into "rebel" encampments but I have not read about the likelihood of Rebel spies/cells in the cities acting much like the terrorists that plagued Britain during its many years fight against the IRA. It doesn't take large scale assaults to break the morale of people. Small attacks against targets in rather comfortable places will make everyone uneasy. Perhaps the continuing atrocities of starving and executions and the destruction of what is at the heart of all Humans the family structure. From this you may get your McVeigh or Collins that some may act on their own accord others maybe more capable of getting unity to fight the same enemy. Similar to how we assisted the Afghan fighters battle Russia. In history a disorganized allies have proven to take a well armed and trained military if not defeat inflict mass causalities to weaken the stronger opponent. This can be applied to both sides, If the UN intervene and sides up with the Fractured US Government. While place like Iran and groups like Al Qaeda may fight the the UN countries that have sent soldiers if not directly attack government installations in mainland USA. I have thought of this in the past and in the end it may go either way has posted earlier it is a scenario of attrition for both sides. One side is reliant on technology the other side is reliant on perseverance and the general guile of those who make their ranks. Skill is one attribute both sides will have. How ever we have a military that is battle hardened after 11 years of conflict in the middle east. I do hope this fails to come but it does happen I have already planned what I will do to ensure safety of friends, family, and neighbors. I apologize for a long scrambled reply it is very late for me and I am tired.

Originally posted by candlelight
reply to post by dave_welch

 

Click on the page I posted eariler and think about what kind of force we could be facing, then post your take on that, It might open your eyes a bit.

I didn't see any kind of force at all. All I saw was several minutes of a black dot. I have no idea how to fight black dots.

Originally posted by sensible1
Are you sou POWERFUL that you can Tell THE REST OF AMERICA that WE HAVE TO GO YOUR WAY OR YOU WILL KILL US IN WAR???

Only when you try to enslave us first. Probably better to just stop trying to do that. Otherwise, if "your" section of America persists, you should expect a backlash.

I'm not going to dignify the charges of "racism" or the partisan rant with a response. They are too obviously a delusion. Please, seek help.

reply to post by nenothtu


I'm also tired of being called a racist all the time. If I had said something that was racist, then I could understand it. People say "when Clinton banned assault rifles you didn't complain.". When that Happened, I was 7 years old, so no, I didn't complain since I didn't understand what was going on. I can tell you that my parents did. I have no problem with anybody because of their race, and anybody who uses that for an excuse may be racist their self. This issue has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with unlawful action. End of story.

reply to post by dave_welch


No, it really has nothing at all to do with race. "Racism" is a charge Obamites lay at your feet when they have nothing logical or substantial to bring to the table. They use it as a weapon to try to shut you up, hoping to "shame" one into submission. Luckily for me, I have no shame. Call it a personality defect. Even if I DID have any shame, false and ludicrous charges have virtually no effect on me. I know me far better than any net warrior for the Administration possibly could, so fanciful products of a diseased mind roll right off my back.

Re: the Clinton AWB, anyone who says we "didn't complain" is too young to have lived through it. Hell was raised, by the bucketful. Bloody murder was screamed. In the end, they ignored us, just as they appear willing to do this time.

You can only ignore a pissed off person for so long before they WILL get your attention. Steamrolling them does not help to get their mind off the troubles you are causing them. It generally just makes it worse. Some folks will NEVER learn, I suppose.

Originally posted by nenothtu
"Racism" is a charge Obamites lay at your feet when they have nothing logical or substantial to bring to the table. They use it as a weapon to try to shut you up, hoping to "shame" one into submission.

Dude.
I dont think I have ever agree with you on anything, But I respect your point of view, as well Spoken and Researched.

Are you really going to own your above Quote, as something you believe?

reply to post by Tw0Sides


I Am. I own it to the nth degree, and stand by it. I've seen it time and again, right here at ATS. More so directly after his first election, but evidently it still gets trotted out upon occasion.

If you would, please re-read the OP, the re-read the post containing the charges of "racism", and explain to me how they are related. I'm not overly bright, but I AM educatable. Educate me.

reply to post by dave_welch


I hate to be a buzz kill but--- come on you don't honestly believe a few guys with their AK's and M4 clones could stand up to the real military, do you?



Look I'm all for private ownership of firearms too but you have no idea what today's modern military is capable of



The days of one man and his rifle are over... in today's battlefield targets are engaged from hundreds if not thousands of miles away! Most SWAT teams could deal with a small group of malcontents but if you brought in the Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force...



It's not going to be like that TV show Revolution or Mad Max. Deserters wont have a chance to turn their weapons, ever hear of summary execution?

Trust me it would be bad, very very bad--- but it would 'not' be another civil war.

Air Calv and Mech units up against Bubba and Bobby Joe... 556 vs 20mm. my moneys on the big TWO OH...

reply to post by MajorMayhem


Well, we would like to think the majority of the military would be on our side! Are you saying if the leader of the United States decided the Constitution was worthless and wanted to take over, you would follow along? As a vet that really makes me sad.... if that happened and I could get back into the left hand seat of our B-52, my buddies that fought by me said they are ready to defend the country from tyranny... are you?

Originally posted by wulff
reply to post by MajorMayhem

 

Well, we would like to think the majority of the military would be on our side! Are you saying if the leader of the United States decided the Constitution was worthless and wanted to take over, you would follow along? As a vet that really makes me sad.... if that happened and I could get back into the left hand seat of our B-52, my buddies that fought by me said they are ready to defend the country from tyranny... are you?

No,
what I'm saying is that I trust that the civil population, as well as my brothers in arms... would fight and solve any unjust law in the right way... In court, or recall elections, marching on our capital and generally doing the things we Americans have always done!

But I am also saying that a small group of radicals falls into that "all enemies foreign and domestic"

Domestic Enemies, is a concept a lot of folks have trouble with. but in reality its simple. A group or organization that threatens to destabilize our government and or the safety of our citizens.

When I say that ,groups like al qaeda, spring to mind, but any group that tries to start a civil war, willing to combat anyone who opposed their views is a Domestic Enemy. Law enforcement and the military are not conflicted in this. they exist to preserve and protect the whole.

Originally posted by MajorMayhem
reply to post by dave_welch

 

I hate to be a buzz kill but--- come on you don't honestly believe a few guys with their AK's and M4 clones could stand up to the real military, do you?

I can see that you are an AH-1 pilot. Who doesn't love air support? I love it and thanks BTW for all the ground pounders who never say it.

As for me my MOS was 18A with s few special skill identifiers in there as well. I was an Enlisted guy for 10 years too with three MOS's 11B, 97B and finally 18C.

My specialty is Special Forces - unconventional warfare so our two skill sets are different and thus we may have differing viewpoints as to what is possible and what is not regarding guerilla warfare.

I was reading this on a break from the first round of early calving and don't have much time to address it at this point so unless I end up on a cot in the birthing stall I will respond more comprehensively later this evening.

Based on my analysis of your choice of name and in combination with your MOS that you were/are a Major as was when I retired.

If so I have noticed a trend growing on ATS of Majors being members. I have seen a bunch of enlisted folks of course, don't see many Junior Officers and I know of only one 05 or higher. However, O4's - being the bastards/mavericks of the officer ranks are well represented.

Bottom line is - one does not fight and enemy force in a guerilla war at the tip of his spear so to speak, it is hard and made of metal you will just impale yourself on it. The shaft; however being wood regardless of its hardness can be broken and that is where the guerilla strikes. A deadly platform like the AH-1 is worthless if it has no fuel or ammo or pilots. Sniping a few in the mess line will make the others a think a little harder about taking to the skies. Blowing up a few fuel trucks will do the same.

One must remember than if it is American citizens fighting the military there are no language or cultural barriers to fitting in and conducting infiltration and subterfuge.

One must be highly skilled and trained in language/culture to assume a cover and conduct activity in a foreign land; however, a good liar who believes in the cause can easily get access to a base as the military support structure now relies on so many contractors it can't function without them.

Any civil war in America will be catalysed from within the Armed forces,and it will be swift and decisive and over within hours in a co-ordinated change of structure.

There can be no other dynamic possible considering todays military strength and structure combined with realtime communication globally,no one can ever get the drop on anyone.

In this day and age a civil war like the olde days isnt possible because people can hear the truth of their neighbors and countrymen online in realtime and they cannot be manipulated as in the past.If Obama trys to enact a presidential technicality and most Americans disagree and choose to disobey then Obama will be forced to back down with no fight in him.With todays social media and real time information exchange globally the liklyhood is that American military people globally would put down theri weapons and walk away from them and simply go home and load up their own weapons in preperation for the New America.Seriously I think this scenario would play out.Very little bloodshed and a resulting massive armed force of Americans with a united cause.america cant nuke itself,ha ha ha.

In order to defy the peoples wishes you need their unknowing support,but in todays information age it just wont happen.Modern governments all have recently learned this.

All you need to do is go online and see what all your friends are doing at that exact moment and coordinate yourselves enmasse.and your government is changed by people laying down their guns and going home not by shooting guns at each other. Americans are more armed than ever and also smarter and more connected than ever,so no worries there wont ever be a civil war but there could be a newage change in government peacefully ,unless you happen to be somone dumb enough to not see this dynamic and you try to force Americans to bend to your wil,ha ha ha.

America wants a leader who will listen to them and they are sick of their president enacting technicalitys of law to usurp their rights as they collectively interpret them,and really who could disagree with the people??It isnt as if they dont have a consensus,cyberspace has replaced the ballot system of voting,social media is a more accurate barometer of the future than the news because its the PEOPLE speaking for and by the PEOPLE,so there are no lies.As I said any government stupid enough to pull the types of things Obama and his guys are pulling is looking to be usurped themselves by a social media blitzkreig that cripples them federally and militarily with lightening speed when people simply stop what they are doing and go home to wait for the polling booths to be set up so they can vote for their new Government.

If you want to prevent a civil war in America you will need to regalvanise the people ,to get ALL their attention ,traditionally government has used war to do this,today that wont work so they need to openly and publicly solve the JFK murder and replace the false government that was installed by coup de tat back then,Obama has a chance at reelection if he spearheads this movment if he doesnt who knows what the peope will do.

I think this is the ONLY thing that will prevent a change of government by non-traditional means in America--the internet has given names and numbers of those people involved in corrupting a once great nation and the children of its founders are and have been seeking justice in a futile effort for generations,I have a feeling the worm is turning and justice is within reach for America after a long and decietful time in the countrys history.Honestly l am born of the 60s and Americas neighbor and even I have spent me lifetime shocked and angry at what was done in Dallas,my ENRITE life i have felt this way and I am not even American,you see you TRUE Americans out there you need to understand that your country has ALWAYS had a sphere of influence that has been bigger than you have known,your rights are bigger than real life but so are your wrongs,Kennedy must be given justice and NO ONE in the world will accept National Security reasons for his public execution no matter how deep the false evidence is.LBJ and his cabal will all be brought to justice,their legacys defiled and their present day assets and the fiscal assets of ALL of their co-horts domsticlly and abroad will be seized and frozen ,this will be possibly hundreds of billions of dollars seized and reclaimed by a rightful government and people.America could rip herself out of a recession by simply freezing and reclaiming the many many billions of dollars siphoned out of her ,and it can be done overnight and with the muilitary might of the greates nation on the planet.Bye bye Rosthchilds and every other family that can be connected vid data to this murder for profit,believe me by now the assets and interest are in the hundreds of billions collectively globally.I am sure these criminals built some of the biggest businesses on the planet after that murder for profit.,now all of that power and influence can be returned to its rightful owners,the American people.

For generations these people who committed a coup de tat have hidden by redirecting Americas pain and passion at conflicts all over the world,kept the smartest people on the planet dumbed down,now the people are beginning to look inwards for solutions to their countrys problems,to the place close to home where all of the evil was spawned and nurtured.America has a chance to STOP the decay that decimated the Roman empire from within and threatened to destroy the British Empire before they speperated into well camoflaged and managed colonys,all over the world.The same enemies of these great empires murdered an American President and got away with it until today and the information age came along to crucify them with the data they had been able to keep hidden.These enemies are MEN OF INDUSTRY,powered by money,money STOLEN from the American people.We KNOW who to target now and all of the data is available and all the money and power in the world will never remove the ability to forensicly track and trace every dime of the money and power,even destroying the records in the Twin Towers was not enough,every bit of data is still online somewhere and available somewhere,and it aint going away.The Peoples Court of global cyberspace will have its day sooner than later or America will fall as Rome did destroyed from within by men and women who craved power and money more than their National Identity---I say rock and roll and bust this one open ASAP and save a country that could either be in its death throes already or could simply be waiting to be reborn stronger than ever through the pursuit of justice and fairplay,the founding principals of its beginnings....