God murdered children. Where's the outrage?

Originally posted by Minori
reply to post by bloodreviara

 

Did it ever occur to you that "man" or the deceiver may have altered the words to justify their own actions???
Just a thought.

PLPL

This.

The best example is Book of Revelations. Most Religious leaders try to put us under illusion that we are living at The End of Times.

If it was indeed, written to control the followers through the fear... then John of Patmos, probably wrote the book of Revelations with a sword pointed to his neck.

back on track for just a minute
i think you'll find the rules work differently
for dragons

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin


This is what I think...I think that much of the bible was written by men...they say that God told them to do this and that..and that the Lord said this and that....when actually it was the men saying it...not God at all. They (on purpose) use God as a way to do whatever they want to do.

Killing a group of children is wrong...and I believe that men decided to do that wrong...and blame it on God.

God didn't write that... man did.

Next!!!!!!!!

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin


God is much more intelligent than you.
Yin Yang

Text So why does god get glorified for this? You could sit and blame the pharoah but how many of those children had anything to do with the events surrounding this story. Why does god get a free pass to murder children?

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin


Why does God get a free pass? Because He is God. I think you have missed the point in life. You can't give God anything much less a free pass. It is God who gave you the free pass. In all reality it is God who should fry all of us and not that we should fry God.

God created us and gave us free will to do anything we wanted to do. But He never ever told us that there would not be rules and regulations to follow with free will. Along with the rules and regulations He also told us the punishments for disobeying those rules and regulations.

That's the problem today with people just as it was back then. We do what we want and break rules and regulations every day. Both against our own government and God Himself. Death is part of life and everything that lives must eventually die. Just because you live to be an adult does not make it any less or more to God. Eventually all must die but we value this life far more than we value eternal life.

God gave Pharaoh, as well as all people, the opportunity to live forever in His kingdom. That is a gift. Now whether you or I take advantage of this opportunity is our right of free will to do so or not to do so. Pharaoh and his people had the same free will and the same rights as we do today. Now if I experienced what the Egyptians experienced and saw all of those plagues that happened, I most certainly would have been smart enough to have realized that this God of Moses was no match for me.

Are you saying that God did not give this guy and his bunch a break? You mean to tell me that ten chances are not enough to change your mind? If your saying that, then I sure don't think you are in your right mind and I sure don't think the Pharaoh and his people were in the right mind either.

Let me ask you a question. Do you believe that God had ever loved Adolph Hitler? Think about it. Did God ever love Esau who was Jacob's twin? Mal 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Did God ever love this Pharaoh that we are talking about now?
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

What about the holocaust? Could not God have prevented it from happening? And yet Jews curse God today just as they have always cursed Him. All people curse God every day by not following the rules and regulations. Search the history books and you will see these and worse atrocities by the scores. And then when it comes to dying we all cringe in terror and blame God. We all think we are big shots just like Pharaoh thought he was a hot shot but wait till we suck that last breath.

Why are little kids any more to God than big kids? What if God would make it a rule that little kids would have to become 21 years old before they could ever die? Would that help matters ? Little Adolph grew up and became a big Adolph. Did that help matters? Little Pharaoh grew up to be big Pharaoh but did that help matters? Little Esau grew up to be big Esau and we all know that didn't help matters. What makes you think the little Egyptian kids would have been any better? All of those Egyptian first born were not little kids. Most were grown people and probably some were in the Pharaoh's army. Would those who were little kids have grown up to be servants of the God of Moses? Hardly think so. Probably would have grown up to be a Pharaoh spear chucker just like the big kids. I know that I would think twice before I would ever pick a fight with a God who created me. Stupid is what stupid does.

you know i use to wonder about this. i met a friend at work few years ago and i asked him a question. i said god killed people in the bible and he lets people die like its nothing to him i wonder why?. and he said "exactly,we are flesh, we are nothing compared to him"
i guess, don't mess with god...... but if there is a after life and he don't punish u into the 2nd death, then its actually a reward..lol

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin


Perhaps, just perhaps, God allows you (and others) the freedom to do things with evil consequence. Perhaps that is what was actually going on here.

Lets imagine you approve of gay marriage or the recreational use of drugs. Then lets acknowledge that the disease AIDS is spread primarily through these vectors. Should we then prosecute you for your part in the deaths of AIDS victims?

The Second World War ended after the American forces dropped nuclear weapons on two Japanese cities. Japan was already on the verge of surrender and without a doubt, the majority of those killed and injured were not directly involved with Japans war effort. The American people have more "innocent blood" on their hands than God.

... and the Americans are really just average out of all the empires that have risen and fallen over the centuries.

Innocence always suffers at the hands of those who propmote their personal will, comfort and position above the needs of others. We humans are tarred with the brush of evil in comparison with God and just to be clear, I'm talking about you & your family!

As far as i can see, the "innocents" that died in the Egyptian plague, died painlessly and in their sleep. God also has promised that those who are younger that the age of comprehension of their sin, will automatically be in heaven upon their death, so perhaps God was actually saving them from a life tainted by sin and guilt. When God takes life, it is for the ultimate good.

The outrage is that a presumptuous evil doer like yourself should point at a holy God and say "He did wrong".

Originally posted by Akragon
The so called "God" in that story isn't actually the true Father of creation...

I had just come across that while browsing videos & gnostic beliefs.

Apparently they believed that there is a transcendent God who is the real God, and that the OT God is a psychopathic entity called the demiurge.

As for the original post, I've also asked this question before; one answer I got was that God has the "right" to every persons life -- that by killing the babies he was simply taking what was his. & That for people it would constitute murder because it is not our place to take lives (unless he commands it, ironically).

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin


Thought provoking thread! It is actually people who kill Children - the word God is just the way the bible has been written.

I always view the bible as a piece of historical literature. I also always remind myself that the book was written at a time when only a small number of people could read - let alone write.

Human beings kill Children - not God. The quote you have supplied is interesting. When I engage in conversation about a society without cash and where everyone is microchipped - I always use the same example. I explain to the people with whom I am speaking - when you are microchipped and your medical history and bank account and even your front door key is controlled via the microchip - you will be completely controlled by the government. One day the government will tell everyone that the planet is overcrowded and everyone has to kill their first born - what will you do? Of course you won't kill your first born Child but the government will turn off your microchip and you will have no money - no medical records and you won't even have access to your home. What will you do?

Again - it is people who kill Children. God is just the word that has been utilised in the writing to divert the blame from the real murderer.

Much Peace ...

Originally posted by johngrissom
reply to post by lobotomizemecapin

 

You are judging a belief that isn't even yours. I believe that is called being ignorant...

................................... .................... ...........................

Maybe do research before you blow it up for your own benefit.......................................................

Just sayin'

This one line then the last authorative comment in your post says it all for me. imo, belief without concrete, reproducible proof is the epitome of ignorance. Oh wait a minute, that's [insert religion of choice] isn't it?

not talking about any you tube clip here, but rather about actual proof that the whole fairy tale is real. As science has progressed it is obvious that the once so called miracles have now decent explainations and as science develops even more, then my guess is that the rest of the biblical unexplained (except by attributing it to god) will be seen to be nothing more than pure natural events

and reading through the posts here, i have noticed one believer stating how the bible is the word of god followed closely by another believer alluding to the possibility that what was written was done so by "the deceiver" aka not god.

added to this, if god was real, then we are well and truly screwed. Think about it. A maniac being that has no hesitation in mass murdering whoever and whatever it wants and even if we decide to do its bidding, at some later time in eternity, if we happen to disagree with it, then we will be thrown out of the house (look at poor ol' lucifer)

But actually, maybe there is a reason for its actions. After living for ever, after knowing everything, then wow, there must come a time when you look at "life" with no more surprisev, no more wonder and think depressing thoughts. I take it all back. sorry god, you have it tough ol mate. Kill and destroy whatever you want, you need to spice up your life a bit

Another atheist conversion attempt. They're just as annoying as bible thumpers. Why do these people feel the need to force their crap on everyone? You believe? Good for you. You don't? Good for you. Get over yourselves.

This isn't just a response to the OP but to everyone who supports whatever they think his side is.


So let me get this straight...


We can't trust the bible because it was written by men and because the non-existent god who none of the critics even believe in is the total suck according to the book we can not trust to begin with. The hypothetical god, that does not exist and is a construct of peoples minds ( who is used only as a tool of control apparently) is unrighteous, murderous, so on and so forth when compared to Mans' currently accepted moral guidelines. Despite the fact that mans current guidelines are constructs of humans just like anything that is laid out in any religious text. But that is OK because "experts agree." or because the book you do not even believe in supposedly says so.


You are seriously going to tell people and their god that you don't believe in are WRONG because they are human while using human methods and reasoning to come to that conclusion?


Do you see why Believers have a problem with these types of statements? It's the same reason any " GOD SAYS/DOES ____" is not a universally agreeable argument. The most honest answer any christian or non-believer can give you is that they " do not really know why, but can make a guess." and when that happens you slam them by stating that because they are christian or whatever that they can not be trusted.


I know i might as well be screaming into a dark closet since none of this will change anyone's minds.


The lack of humility between believers and non-believers is STUNNING. Btw i am not claiming to be humble here. I merely attempt to be humble, and that doesn't always work. Honestly, there is little difference between myself and others.

reply to post by Def Youth


Liars should not be exposed? Truth should not be uncovered? If somebody tries to recruit me into their cult my intelligence should not be insulted?

Originally posted by Def Youth
Another atheist conversion attempt. They're just as annoying as bible thumpers. Why do these people feel the need to force their crap on everyone? You believe? Good for you. You don't? Good for you. Get over yourselves.

Welcome to the internet bro. Nobody on either side wants to admit that they don't have it all figured out for various reasons. But don't get too disheartened, for every five froth-mouthed atheist and theist i meet i find that there is usually one or two who are humble enough to admit that maybe everything they believe in is wrong. There are good people on both sides, so really, you can't lump them all together. But god forbid you disagree with that supposed vocal majority of whoever, because then you are either ignorant or going to hell.


The idea of not knowing scares everyone regardless of faith or lack of it and nobody wants to admit it. Does this apply to all? No, like i said before, there are plenty of people on both sides who are confident enough to say "i don't know" They will always be harder to control and sway and that is what drives the positively-minded crazy. And don't think that I am immune to all this. I can be deceived just as much as anyone else. No matter how much i think i may know. BTW i myself am a christian as well as a human. I am therefore an incredulous source for this idea. Disregard everything i do and say. I can not be trusted.

Originally posted by jasonl1983
reply to post by Def Youth

 

Liars should not be exposed? Truth should not be uncovered? If somebody tries to recruit me into their cult my intelligence should not be insulted?

Who and by what are you to make the claim that anyone is a liar? How do you know it is a cult? Because other people tell you? Because it is your own personal suspicion? Isn't it possible that the truth is uknowable? What makes you think there is even such a thing as truth to begin with?

Well obviously if God invented creation by evolution then He certainly looks upon death as trivial in the long run. Typically the babies would go back to Him in Heaven.

I find it hypocritical and egotistical that the OP chastises Almighty God about killing children. Let's just think about this. In 2008, there were 1.21 million abortions alone. That is 1.21 million children who were killed (by man) because they were not wanted. The OP wants to say that God is a child murderer? God kills because of judgment; man murders out of convenience. So, let's keep child killing in context, and focus on why the plagues occured in the first place.

Did not the children of Egypt have the opportunity to be saved by their gods, gods who were powerless?

God is a righteous god who has the capacity of unimaginable love and unimaginable wrath. Why didn't Egypt's gods save them? Why did pharaoh (who claimed to be a god) not save his people from the god of Abraham? Warnings were given to change each time a plague occured. It was pharoah who would not relent to God. Pharoah who had the power to stop his peoples suffering but refused. God's judgment on Egypt was a just and righteous judgment. The plagues on Egypt were a representation of the main gods of the land. If the Egyptian gods were worthy, they would have prevented the plagues. None did, and could not stand against The Almighty.

Here is a more detailed explaination:

Context is everything in biblical interpretation. The ancient Egyptians served many false gods. The Plagues that were set upon the people of Egypt were relative to the gods of the land demonstrating that God was the true God and that their gods were weak, ineffective, and false.

Turning the Nile into blood, Exodus 7:14-25. Isis was the Egyptian god of the Nile. Khnum was the guardian of the Nile.
Frogs, Exodus 8:1-5. Heget was the goddess of birth and had the head of a frog.
Gnats, Exodus 8:16-19. Set was the god of the desert.
Flies, Exodus 8:20-32. Re was the sun god. Uatchit was a god possibly represented by the fly.
Death of Livestock, Exodus 9:1-7. Hathor, goddess with a cow's head. Apis was the bull god.
Boils, Exodus 9:8-12. Sekmet, goddess that had power over disease. Sunu, the god of pestilence.
Hail, Exodus 9:13-35. Nut, the goddess of the sky. Set, god of storms.
Locusts, Exodus 10:1-20. Osiris, god of crops.
Darkness, Exodus 10:21-29. Re, the sun god. Horus, a sun god. Hathor, sky goddess.
Death of firstborn, Exodus 11:1 - 12:30. Min, god of reproduction. Isis, goddess who protected children. Pharaoh, considered a god.

The death of the first-born (Exodus 12:29) was not only a final blow to Pharaoh and all of Egypt demonstrating the powerlessness of Pharaoh and the truth of God's Word, but it was also used as a prophetic typology. In the account of the death of the first-born, all who had the blood of a lamb placed on their door posts would escape the judgment of God on the households. This blood on the doorpost was representative of the actual blood of Christ who is called the Lamb of God. Therefore, God allowed the first-born to be killed as a judgment upon Pharaoh as a proof of God's superiority and as a prophetic representation of the death of His Son, Jesus. It was a representation of the gospel message that the true firstborn of God who would later die for the sins of the world and that all who are covered by the blood of Christ will be saved from their bondage to sin. It does not indicate that God is mean, especially if we realize that all have sinned (Rom. 3:23). It illustrates that God was arranging history to bear witness of the greatest act of love: the crucifixion.

I find it interesting that people try to convict God based on their morals and ideals. Funny, we all lie, we all have cheated, we all have stolen in our lives, we all have had lustful thoughts. That makes us sinners; It doesn't matter if your a beleiver or not, does not change the fact we are sinners. So for us to try and convict a holy and righteous God is laughable. Perhapes its our hearts which have convicted us. We know we are not perfect and that we do wrong, but we still choose to be rebellious and have our lives controlled by sin. Yet, the hope in Christ remains. We can be forgiven and accepted by God through the blood and sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Everyone is welcomed to this gift, you just have to accept it and be born into a new creation.

reply to post by Siberbat

I find it hypocritical and egotistical that the OP chastises Almighty God about killing children. Let's just think about this. In 2008, there were 1.21 million abortions alone. That is 1.21 million children who were killed (by man) because they were not wanted. The OP wants to say that God is a child murderer?

The God of the Old Testament, supposedly ordered the abortion of 10's of 1000's of babies. He ordered that the enemy's infants should be dashed against the rocks! He NEVER forbid abortion in the Bible, NEVER! In fact in the book Numbers God gives instructions on how and when to conduct abortions in the temple. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Your god has set an example of how to behave and treat the unwanted.

God kills because of judgment; man murders out of convenience.

Man also killed in the name of god, and claimed to be under his order. Man has followed in God's footsteps, and has become a killing machine.

So, let's keep child killing in context,

Right. God doesn't just kill children and babies. He's indescriminate. He'll kill anyone, anytime.

and focus on why the plagues occured in the first place. Did not the children of Egypt have the opportunity to be saved by their gods, gods who were powerless?

No. No they did not. The citizens of Egypt had no power or influence over what was happening.

God is a righteous god who has the capacity of unimaginable love and unimaginable wrath. Why didn't Egypt's gods save them? Why did pharaoh (who claimed to be a god) not save his people from the god of Abraham? Warnings were given to change each time a plague occured. It was pharoah who would not relent to God. Pharoah who had the power to stop his peoples suffering but refused. God's judgment on Egypt was a just and righteous judgment. The plagues on Egypt were a representation of the main gods of the land. If the Egyptian gods were worthy, they would have prevented the plagues. None did, and could not stand against The Almighty.

God was playing a sadistic game with Moses and Pharaoh. Read you Bible again. God kept hardening Pharaoh's heart, and then punishing for it. Sick, not righteous god.

And, what? You admit that Egypt had gods that your god challenged. So, it was a pissing match between gods, to see who god was bigger and stronger and Yahweh won! Whoopi! So I guess that's proof that your god isn't the ONLY god after all, huh?

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin

Originally posted by sylent6
This is not definitive. I'm not sitting around pissed off because he had his purpose.

But if you want some concern, he will do it again and that's a promise.

he's giving people time to change and yes when he get rid of this current wicked system, there probably will be children dying but God will judge and examining every person heart before the destruction of things

What was so grand about his purpose? Retribution on some pharaoh? Doesnt sound very divine to me.

it wasn`t even to get retribution on a pharaoh, because even if the pharaoh wanted to give into moses`s demands and thereby save the children, he couldn`t because god had already intervened and used some kind of supernatural mind control that removed the pharaoh`s free will to make the decision.

Exodus 9:12

And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them;

god made up his mind that he was going to murder all those children and he wasn`t going to let anything stand in his way.