The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”

Heard a man by the name of Dr. Jeffress on the radio today. He wrote a book called "How Can I Know"

This link has the two parts of his talk on the subject of how there is no other option in the universe but intelligent design.

THE LINK

Whether you believe in God or not I encourage you to listen to it.

Whatever you think about Dr. Jeffress, please leave it out of the thread. I'd rather just discuss the content of what he said.

Also if you don't listen to what he says but just want to comment about my title or something I said, just comment in your head and leave it off of here.

Originally posted by iSHRED
I'd rather just discuss the content of what he said.

Dowloaded and scanned through the first one to get an idea of what he had to say.

His argument was a very long winded way of putting forward two tired old chestnuts...
- The "watchmaker" argument, first proposed by William Paley in 1802.
- The "its all too improbable to have happened by chance alone", therefore : God.

Bit of which sound lovely but dont stand up to any scrutiny at all.

Originally posted by iSHRED
I'd rather just discuss the content of what he said.

Listened to the second one.
Comprised a very round about way of fluffing up
- the old "scientists are liars",
- scientists lie because they want to remove God from their equations,
- scientists dont know everything,
- we can "know" something, even if there isnt proof.
and the second part was
- "first cause". The universe had a beginning, therefore : God


Seriously, this man has nothing original to say whatsoever.
He probably just scanned the internet looking for the arguments that people have had before, time and time again, and wrote them them up into a feelgood speech that contributes nothing new at all.

reply to post by alfa1


He talked about a lot more than that. Including how atheists/scientists, when proven wrong just add on and make new theories. An example he gives is the multiple universe theory. (If there are an infinite number of universes than the odds would come along in one of the universes to make everything we see by random.)

I'm glad you could extract all the info from an hours worth of talking in 5 minutes

Originally posted by iSHRED
He talked about a lot more than that. Including how atheists/scientists, when proven wrong just add on and make new theories.

Actually thats a GOOD thing.
If your ideas are shown to be wrong, it is GOOD to discard that incorrect idea and go with a better one.

(As opposed to religion, which takes a solid stance againt any change)

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by iSHRED
He talked about a lot more than that. Including how atheists/scientists, when proven wrong just add on and make new theories.

Actually thats a GOOD thing.
If your ideas are shown to be wrong, it is GOOD to discard that incorrect idea and go with a better one.

(As opposed to religion, which takes a solid stance againt any change)

not true, prove what I believe wrong and my belief will change...
the problem is you nor anyone else can prove ID wrong.


It can't be proven right or wrong yet. All we can do is look at facts and statistics and decide which is more plausible.


However one day all will know the truth.

I see it this way. The universe seems to have a dual nature. Everything seems to have an opposite. Light/dark. Fast/slow. Hot/cold. Yes/no. Matter/antimatter. Etc. So why then would the mechanistic properties of reality (the laws of physics) not have a "supernatural" opposite. Science/anti-science. How would we recognize something as existing without its opposite with which to identify it by comparison? Hot is a meaningless concept without cold. Yet I am supposed to believe that the mechanistic rules of the universe stand alone? Miracles, souls, esp, dreams, and yes, even God, are just as real as E=MC2, quarks, gravity and entropy. You cannot prove them because it is not in their nature to be provable things.

Well I dont know for sure that there is a spirit in the sky. How ever I do not believe the words of some child molesting guy in a black dress. Who seems to be the experts on this matter. Or any of the other spirit in the sky brain washing churches.
If heaven is full of those nice religious types of people then I shall opt for hell. Where I will no doubt freeze as all the best seats near the fire, will be taken up with all the decent honest kind politicians and their friends.

reply to post by iSHRED

Also if you don't listen to what he says but just want to comment about my title or something I said, just comment in your head and leave it off of here.

Done

It's not that there isn't a god, it's just that they don't care about us. At least that's the conclusion I come to when I look around. Hard to believe there's a god who would allow half the # that runs rampant on this ball of mud.

Originally posted by MrUncreated
It's not that there isn't a god, it's just that they don't care about us. At least that's the conclusion I come to when I look around. Hard to believe there's a god who would allow half the # that runs rampant on this ball of mud.

God cares more about us than we could ever imagine. He offers us the plan of salvation through means which is available to anybody and everybody, if they just accept it.

People need to stop and realize that all they have to do is accept the gift He has given us. It's not that difficult. Wide is the path to destruction, but narrow is the path to salvation. If someone put you in a room that had ten doors and told you that behind nine of them there was something which would injure you, but behind the tenth one was a room full of gold, which one would you choose? And would you have the right to act surprised that you were injured because you opened one of the other ones even though somebody told you beforehand about the only one that was safe?

When people push God and His laws to the side, of course bad things are going to happen. It was like that from the very beginning of earth's history. If Adam and Eve had only listened to God, nothing bad would ever have happened. But they didn't, so it did. All the bad things that have happened throughout history are all because of mankind's continuous pushing away of God and His Spirit. So, it's no wonder that things are happening left and right these days.

Jesus said this world will be the same as it was when Lot was told to leave town. He also said it would be the same as it was in the days of Noah. In both situations, those who went against God's law were utterly destroyed. ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS OBEY HIM. His rules are for our own good. Just like a child and their parents. The parents have rules, and the children always dislike their rules, but the parents know that those rules are for the good of their children.

reply to post by jeramie


Ahhh that's fine then, I assume your God is the Christian god? He doesn't care for Hindu's though nor Muslims because they have not bought into his club.
We have to accept him to get all the goodies though, bit forceful isn't it? accept or you are screwed? nah mate the real God wouldn't go for that idea only people who want control of your mind want that and you fell for it.

Originally posted by jeramie
God cares more about us than we could ever imagine. He offers us the plan of salvation through means which is available to anybody and everybody, if they just accept it.

People need to stop and realize that all they have to do is accept the gift He has given us. It's not that difficult. Wide is the path to destruction, but narrow is the path to salvation. If someone put you in a room that had ten doors and told you that behind nine of them there was something which would injure you, but behind the tenth one was a room full of gold, which one would you choose? And would you have the right to act surprised that you were injured because you opened one of the other ones even though somebody told you beforehand about the only one that was safe?

When people push God and His laws to the side, of course bad things are going to happen. It was like that from the very beginning of earth's history. If Adam and Eve had only listened to God, nothing bad would ever have happened. But they didn't, so it did. All the bad things that have happened throughout history are all because of mankind's continuous pushing away of God and His Spirit. So, it's no wonder that things are happening left and right these days.

Jesus said this world will be the same as it was when Lot was told to leave town. He also said it would be the same as it was in the days of Noah. In both situations, those who went against God's law were utterly destroyed. ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS OBEY HIM. His rules are for our own good. Just like a child and their parents. The parents have rules, and the children always dislike their rules, but the parents know that those rules are for the good of their children.

“You either have a god who sends child rapists to rape children, or you have a god who simply watches it and says ‘I’m gonna punish you’. If I could stop a person from raping a child I would. That’s the difference between me and your god”

Sorry if this is off-topic, but does it seem like the star distribution in this thread reflects an imbalance between believers and non-believers on this forum?

reply to post by BlueMule


Just denying ignorance.
That's what we do, when there is proof we will not deny.

reply to post by Toadmund


Oh, I doubt that.

reply to post by BlueMule

He offers us the plan of salvation through means which is available to anybody and everybody, if they just accept it.

Prove me that this salvation is real, and not another bedtime story fro the sheep from the "authority". Bring me "other side" whitnesses. Give any single point or even a hint of evidence of the existence of salvation ?

Belief in a god comes down to two basic tenants - you choose to believe in something purely based on faith, while I choose to believe in something based on the scientific method. I don't *know* that there is not a god anymore than you *know* that there is one, but we can say this - the god of the bible (or any other god for that matter) was born out many thousands of years ago mostly out of ignorance of the world (universe) around us. Through science, we've come to better understand that world, and understand that this concept of a god is flimsily based on very little. You are right - I cannot prove that god does not exist, but it's certainly more reasonable and logical (and satisfying, imho) to couch your belief system in things we can understand and explore, rather than fairy tales that have no basis in reality.