Do I want to go to Heaven?

I have always thought of Paradise as being with one's Beloved. If True Love endures all things, then how could Heaven ever be boring when you are with your True Love?

The Great Mystery is Great and I do not understand that Greatness, I only know that, Trust, not blind trust, but one rooted in Gnosis, is a thing one must surrender to after they have wrestled as Jacob wrestled (Gen.32:22-32).

One wonders if what the Holy Books speak of is not always literal and or has other layers of understanding. What is observable however, is that man's ego often attributes the things of his own ego to God and that this is how many evil justifications are made and are more palpitable to those who must be convinced at what otherwise they would be reluctent to.

I should clarify that the context of the use of Beloved is refering to God. Pardon this one liner.

Originally posted by followtheevidence
reply to post by KrzYma

 

If you reject God ... what choice is He left with beside your own?

You presume that God sees the world through the same good/bad filter that you use. Your clinging to the 'good' blinds you to the inviolable authority behind what IS. .

Would you rather a Creator who binded Himself to you for eternity without your consent?

He did that when he created us. Despite your narrow view of what/who God is, surely you know that a word said cannot become unsaid. I mean, to entertain the notion is foolish, from my perspective.Imagine being in the groove of a record, right behind the needle, hearing the music as it plays. just because a song ends doesn't mean it disappears from the record. The man playing the record can move the needle any time he wants, and listen to that song again. That song is frozen in the substance of the record. Thus we (the egoic we) are all frozen in the substance of the universe, forever and ever. But the genuine self follows the moment, because the universe exists for the exploration of God's infinite nature (and that encompasses the greatest virtue as well as the deepest depravity, as nothing exists which is not manifested by God).

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by KrzYma

 

and the fanatics that still kill in the name of "God"

The fanatics who kill (innocents) in the name of God only delude themselves that they are religious.

There are no innocents in my view. I see every baby that is born as having agreed to its life path. And the unborn? Until the breath of life enters the lungs, it is not a differentiated being. It still belongs to the sea of superconsciousness. Based on my personal observations, memories, and logic, of course. I could be wrong, but there is no authoritative information available either way.

It has also been said that the religious hypocrites will occupy the deepest regions of hellfire.

Yeah, because you just said it, right? Naw, man, I'm just playin'. I happen to think that religious hypocrites (and snuff porn actors, etc.) get reduced to their component energies. Recycled, you know? Since they're the most useless beings imaginable. But even they exist forever in the context of eternity.

Originally posted by St Udio
is it Love or a Lobotomy that causes that heavenly choir to stand up forever and sing for eternity
in front of a throne, 4 beasts & some Elders-----....sounds like a "SAW" movie to me

Because, of course, you have more interesting things to do? Perhaps that's because you've never had a personal visitation. I know you haven't because I, being rather cynical myself, would be quite happy and content to bask in HER (God-at-rest's) presence for a very long time. I can't say forever because I can't conceive of forever. I do know that I didn't want to leave, and the memory of the experience effectively crippled me from enjoying life for 20 years.

By way of explanation, my experiences with a God in manifestation seem to be with a masculine entity, while my experiences with a God at rest seem to be with a feminine entity. Though they are the same being.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by KrzYma

 

How do you know all the guys who wrote all that "holly books" of yours wasn't driven by Satan whisper ???

Because those books warn against Satan the whisperer.

Oh, you mean like "HEY! You'd better watch out, you'd better not cry! You'd better not pout, I'm telling you why: SATAN wants to kill your soul! He's going to make you disbelieve these books of goodness and truth, and that mistake in cognitive reasoning is going to cost you FOREVER in flames of torment!

Sorry, that sounds too much like fear mongering (a.k.a. "the Devil's" best work) to me. You seriously underestimate the subtlety of your opponent.

Satan, as defined by those books....isn't someone who warns the people he intends to mislead.... by telling the writers of those books about the dangers of following Satan.

and I repeat, you seriously underestimate the subtlety of your opponent. The fear engendered by believing that crap is enough to keep you far away from discovering the truth: your genuine self IS of one essence with the One Infinite Creator. The ego-personality construct is just the suit we wear so we can experience the illusions of multiplicity and separation.

Its like having a brilliant plan to kidnap somebody at a certain place and time....and then telling them about your plans.

Or telling them you have come to save them from a kidnapper and saying 'follow me'.

reply to post by seamus


And did you get all that understanding of infinite omnipotent lifeforms from your armchair degree? Or was it Wikipedia? I bet it was Wikipedia.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by seamus

 

And did you get all that understanding of infinite omnipotent lifeforms from your armchair degree? Or was it Wikipedia? I bet it was Wikipedia.

Well moste of you get your true knowledge from Wikipedia these days. Have you ever had a thought of common sense?

Does common sence often add up or does it crach with scientific knowledge?

Let me ask you this: Do you think the infinite exists. And if i asked you: How big must the first dimmension be?

I bet you wouldnt know what to search for first on Wikipedia. Because you have no self understanding.

reply to post by spy66

Well moste of you get your true knowledge from Wikipedia these days. Have you ever had a thought of common sense?

Does common sence often add up or does it crach with scientific knowledge?

Common sense and religion share little company these days...

Let me ask you this: Do you think the infinite exists. And if i asked you: How big must the first dimmension be?

The infinite does indeed exist.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Originally posted by karen61560
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Not only is god selfish but he is also jealous. This sounds like all too human traits to me.

enter the psyop that religion is. You do know the latin root for religion means "to bind", right?

I am the lord thy god thou shalt have no gods before me.

Here we have encoded truth. The fear-mongers weren't allowed under natural law (which they used to serve well) to completely lie in their scriptures. You can crack the code by simply looking to the front of the bible where they explain what LORD (in all caps) and GOD (in all caps) mean when they are used that way. Those are representations of YHWH, the "tetragrammaton". YHWH happens to be the graphical representation of the sound of the "breath of vishnu", the process by which the universe is cyclically created and deconstructed. What does that mean? It means that there is one real presence in the universe, of which we are all a part. In that context, the command "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" is a fear-inducing (remember, this is a psyop) way of sayiing "Be true to your origins, and let no-one interlope between you and your true nature". The reaction you have demonstrated to the command as recorded in the Bible is one of two reactions acceptable to those perpetrating the psyop.

First off doesnt sound like he is alone in his godness

If you carefully consider what I have written about it, you will see a view in which we are all in a very real sense, god. The idea of multiple gods was part of the deception, and has played out to the opponent's advantage for a long, long time. Yes there are multiple "gods". Just as there are billions of people. But anyone selling the story that there is more than one genuine indwelling presence is selling you a story to get your power away from you. That's part of the game we're playing.

and second well love me and not them sounds childish too.

It is. Which is part of the deception, also. The clergy tell lies with their clever and subtle manipulation of the truth. That has always been their function, in every single religion.

Why cant normal smart humanbeings see this?

The smart ones do. But normal people are not smart. They are too mentally lazy to be smart.

Why the blinders when it comes to religion but not on other matters? What other subject ask for "faith" ? Believe without proof because I said so.

Another function of religion is to get us to suspend critical thinking. I have reconciled my knowledge of "God" with everything in the Bible, and every experience in my life, and every genuine scientific discovery through rigorous logic and intellectual honesty. I said 'knowledge' because my knowing of "God" is without faith. I have no use for faith. It let me down for as long as I indulged in it. Faith is the mark of a lazy mind, and lazy minds are not allowed to see "God"in this life. Everyone sees the truth when they die, though, so it doesn't really matter which you are, except insofar as it affects the quality of your temporal experience.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by seamus

 

And did you get all that understanding of infinite omnipotent lifeforms from your armchair degree? Or was it Wikipedia? I bet it was Wikipedia.

If you read my previous post to this one, you will see where I got my understanding, small as it is.

I don't know much, but what I know, I know intimately. That, in contrast to the foggy, misdirected ignorance that most people dwell in, might seem like a lot, but it's just the end of one tiny thread in a gigantic tapestry. Mockery does not serve you well. It's interesting that you believe that Infinity is real, but you hide your own divinity from yourself. ∞=1, for the record, and you are inevitably and provably part of that 1. Multiplicity implies finiteness. Therefore ∞=singularity.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Common sense and religion share little company these days...

I was asking you if you had common sense.



If you agree that the infinite exists how can you not believe the existence of God?

The infinite is a constant. It is a true constant because; it is always a constant infinite.

You agree that finite is real. Finites are not a constant, because they change.

We use some finites as if they were a constant because the rate of change are very small.


Some people think that finites are infinite. Because they have been thought that energy can not be created or destroyed. So they draw the conclusion that finites have always existed. But they cant have, because finites are not infinite. So the teaching that energy can not be created or destroyed is false. Finites must have been created.

The thing is. "We" can not create new energy and "we" can not destroy existing energy. That is why "we" say that energy can not be created or destroyed. It is not possible for us humans to do this.


What space would we have when there are no finites?

- What you would have is a absolutely dark infinite empty space. Question is: how did this true constant form finite?

Can you use a scientific law to expline it?
What kind of equation would you use?

reply to post by spy66


What has infinity got to do with God?

Perhaps the Infinite universe is a living entity, let's call her Mother Nature. She may be nothing like the God you think of. Perhaps she made God so He can do all the hard work. What I am saying is that the Infinite in no way proves the existence of God.

P

Originally posted by pheonix358
reply to post by spy66

 

What has infinity got to do with God?

Perhaps the Infinite universe is a living entity, let's call her Mother Nature. She may be nothing like the God you think of. Perhaps she made God so He can do all the hard work. What I am saying is that the Infinite in no way proves the existence of God.

P

It does prove the existence of a creator. You would have understood it if you knew what a constant is.

The Name God. Is just a name given to the source that did the creating. It is that simple. But yet we make it so complicated.

God Also called him self: I am

Mother Nature is not a name used to describe God. But earth.

reply to post by spy66


I am sorry but your logic defies understanding or common sense.

And you have this insight I suppose because only you can understand God?

Yea, um, OK.

P

ETA Just for discussion we can change the name of the Mother Of The Universe to a simple Big Mummy if that helps. Sorry for the confusion!

Originally posted by pheonix358
reply to post by spy66

 

I am sorry but your logic defies understanding or common sense.

And you have this insight I suppose because only you can understand God?

Yea, um, OK.

P

ETA Just for discussion we can change the name of the Mother Of The Universe to a simple Big Mummy if that helps. Sorry for the confusion!

edit on 14/3/2013 by pheonix358 because: (no reason given)

Logic is a veriable when it comes to human knowledge and understanding. If you took your time to think, you would know that i have not stated anything that is wrong logically.

You have not disproved my logic. You have just rejected it. Big difference.

You dont have the qualities to grasp this. If you think you can use Mother Nature as a logical argument, you are way out of the ball park. It is common knowledge that Mother Nature is used to describe earth.

I dont know where you get The Mother of The Universe logic. No one uses it to describe the universe.

And if you knew what the Universe is, You would know it is a finite.

reply to post by spy66

If you agree that the infinite exists how can you not believe the existence of God?

I was joking. I don't know if any kind of infinite exists, other than our ability to imagine and describe the concept. With that said, a "god" was traditionally a word for a conscious ruler of some aspect of existence. In this sense, everything is godly, because everything rules its particular piece of existential possibility. My life is a very tiny shred of everything that ever will be, and I am the one at the wheel. As such, I am the god of my own little world, the world that is composed of data translated from electrical signals triggered by external stimuli. What I am experiencing is my biological capacity for interpreting the alchemical communications of the outside world. I am not perfect; therefore, my comprehension of all interactions is not perfect. All I see is the rough translation inside my skull - that's all any of us can see. Our inventions are restrained by our imagination, our ability to predict the existence of something we want to record, the investigative talent of discerning the dimensions and attributes of such a thing. If we cannot imagine, we cannot progress. That's the godliness within us...the ability to envision something that doesn't yet exist, has rarely ever been thought of, and creating it. We are gods in our own right. Just ask an Egyptian.

I literally just read a post about ten minutes ago explaining that while multiplicity implies finiteness, infinity implies singularity. If something is infinite, that means every possible instance is also a part of it. There is no division, no hierarchy. Therefore, if there is indeed an infinite god, then we are also that god, no matter what we've done or what we believe. Sin is obsolete. Hell is obsolete. "Satan" is obsolete. Because sin is "God", Hell is "God", and "Satan" is "God". They are different aspects of "God", isolated and externalized from him by our minds because we have difficulty reconciling physical need with spiritual need.

My third point is this: if something is truly infinite, then it is omniscient too, correct? Infinite mind and body? Theoretically, this means that all of existence in all the universes is playing simultaneously in such a god's mind. Every single moment that has ever occurred in even the smallest space through the entire universe, or all universes, compressed into one everlasting moment of reminiscence. That's the mind of the infinite. Psychologically speaking, this would probably invoke a sense of being completely and utterly done with technical existence. At this point, you don't exist. You are a part of the energy composing the universe itself, which means you have no individual identity. Perfect unity.

In conclusion, I do believe in something that can be called infinite. But I would not call it a god, a ruling entity with an actual conscious mind and a personality, because such a psychological construct would be unable to process an infinite state of awareness. Every single thought and moment and possibility that ever exists in the universe, all trapped inside that mind. Simultaneously. An overload of existential data. In a god that behaves so human? Haha, I laugh at the idea.

But anyway, yeah. That's my argument.

The thing is. "We" can not create new energy and "we" can not destroy existing energy. That is why "we" say that energy can not be created or destroyed. It is not possible for us humans to do this.

Those are the words of a finite incarnation. Just because the car can run at 120 miles per hour doesn't mean your inability to do so detracts from your value as a being. And it certainly doesn't negate the fact that virtually every single periodic element used to form the materials in that vehicle can also be found in your chemical structure. Our atoms were forged in the hearts of stars. Do you really think we're so separate from the universe in anything but our minds?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


That was actually very well written I agree with many of your views, but your are still a bit of the clue. And that is mostly do to how you visualize the infinite. Unless you got your view from Wikipedia?

If you visualize a absolute empty void of space free from finite void. You will see nothing but absolutely darkness, it would even seem 2 dimensional. This space is the body of God / I am.

Since this absolute empty space is a absolute constant. This infinite space will not randomly make changes. There cannot randomly be any changes within this absolutely empty space. Because it is only one single infinite void.

Now i am goin to tuch on a simular view as you mentioned.

Since this empty infinite void of space is a constant, it is absolutely static, motionles. It can only create a chang if it wants to. Because there exist nothing else but this infinite void, so random changes will never take place.

Since the void of the absolute empty space is infinite. The infinite can only create a void that is different that it self. The infinite cannot creat something that is infinite and lik it self at the same time. That is why we observe finites.

All finites must exist within the absolute empty enfinite void. Never on the outside, because there are no out side of the infinite empty void. If people did understand science they would now understand why energy can not be destroyed. Because energy is not infinite. That is why it cant be destroyed. Finites exist within a infinite void that is infinitely larger then it self. Finites can only become what it used to be, and that is infinite.

Becomming infinite or being infinite are two different things. One is expanding, changing the other is static, motonles, no motion, no changes.


Awareness:

Since the infinite is a constant, It can not ramdomly change on its own. It must want to make changes. There are no other options present.

You say that our awareness must be infinite like God? No our awareness is not infinite like God.
Our awareness is as finite as our flesh. Our awareness is a reflection of God. Our thoughts are also limited to time, experiance and knowledge. There is not much you can think of that havent already been thought of.

reply to post by spy66

If you visualize a absolute empty void of space free from finite void. You will see nothing but absolutely darkness, it would even seem 2 dimensional. This space is the body of God / I am.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

All finites must exist within the absolute empty enfinite void. Never on the outside, because there are no out side of the infinite empty void. If people did understand science they would now understand why energy can not be destroyed. Because energy is not infinite. That is why it cant be destroyed. Finites exist within a infinite void that is infinitely larger then it self. Finites can only become what it used to be, and that is infinite.

So...something that is finite cannot be destroyed?

fi·nite
adjective \ˈfī-ˌnīt\

Definition of FINITE

1 a : having definite or definable limits

b : having a limited nature or existence

Whereas the term "infinite"...

1in·fi·nite
adjective \ˈin-fə-nət\

Definition of INFINITE

1: extending indefinitely : endless

2: immeasurably or inconceivably great or extensive : inexhaustible

3: subject to no limitation or external determination

4
a : extending beyond, lying beyond, or being greater than any preassigned finite value however large

So according to those definitions, which quality seems more prone to destruction? The limited, or the unlimited?

Since the infinite is a constant, It can not ramdomly change on its own. It must want to make changes. There are no other options present.

It cannot change on its own, it must want to change? That makes absolutely no sense - unless you're talking about spontaneity.

You say that our awareness must be infinite like God? No our awareness is not infinite like God.
Our awareness is as finite as our flesh. Our awareness is a reflection of God. Our thoughts are also limited to time, experiance and knowledge. There is not much you can think of that havent already been thought of.

Please go back and read my post. You clearly didn't take the time to understand what I typed.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Just leave it. You are not the right one to understand this.

reply to post by spy66

Just leave it. You are not the right one to understand this.

You think so?

“If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.” - Albert Einstein

Maybe you should work on your understanding.

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Just leave it. You are not the right one to understand this.

Those that do not agree with me are infantile morons therefore I am always right.



P

reply to post by pheonix358


I'm trying to keep the discussion going, but evidently, Mr. Spy can't defend his case well enough to keep up. Come on, Spy, give me something to work with here.