Controversy as 200 Utah teachers to be given concealed weapons training in wake of Sandy Hook

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


It was the pass rate he had daily tests of various things and if he failed one he was off the course, he had to get 90% accuracy with one of the weapons every time, 89% and you get sent back to using a truncheon.
The trainers were SAS.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by WhereIsTheBatman

 

result - the teachers will be the first victims in any future utah school shooting

How does that make any sense? "We can't let you protect yourself from getting shot because you might get shot?"

Secondly, the point of CCW, is that no one will know who is carrying. This gives the good guys the advantage and will act as a deterrent. "Gun free zones" ensure that the criminal will have helpless victims and they know it--which is why these shootings always occur in "gun free zones."

reply to post by sconner755


As I stated earlier, I do agree that having armed teachers would keep most criminals out, I just dont think that having it in the classroom is the answer because if one does go in anyway, thing could be far worst.

Armed guards at the entrance would be much better IMO. That's all I was trying to say.

reply to post by boymonkey74


I can tell you that if they want to start arming teachers, far more kids are going to get killed by accident than will ever be protected.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
If teachers wanted to be police officers, they would of become police officers. The answer isn't more guns.

200 teachers is hardly news anyways, out of 26,300.

Carrying a gun hardly makes a teacher a police officer. Does that make everyone else carrying a gun a cop? It's a means of protection, that's all. No need for the over dramatization. From what I understand, other schools implementing similar programs will not even disclose which teachers are carrying. It will be totally anonymous.



We have already seen what less guns and not having the means of protecting oneself and others can do. After all, Columbine happened during the years of the last assault weapons ban.

reply to post by sconner755

agreed.

How long before somebody grabs a gun from a cop and shoots people.

apparently, not long at all ...

3 shot at station
"A violent struggle occurred while the suspect was being processed," Deputy Chief David Harkins said. The man was able to grab a gun and then opened fire.

One of the injured officers was rushed to surgery after being shot below his bulletproof vest, and the other two were hospitalized with minor injuries.

then, of course, there's this although luckily, no one was hurt ...

bathroom theft attempt
Authorities say a police officer's personal handgun discharged twice when someone tried to steal his jacket while he was in the bathroom at an upstate New York shopping mall.
- snip -

Officials say someone reached over the door and tried to grab his jacket, with the gun inside. Police say the gun fired twice, with both bullets hitting the ceiling. No one was injured.

it is still my contention that UNresponsible gun owners are everywhere ... their 'title' doesn't include "competency".

we read stories like these almost weekly.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

I can tell you that if they want to start arming teachers, far more kids are going to get killed by accident than will ever be protected.

Really? Based on what facts? In the states where CCW is permitted, liscensed gun carriers have a very tiny rate to accidents and criminal acts than the population at large.

States that keep statistics on crimes committed by concealed handgun license holders invariably find that licensees are significantly less likely than unlicensed residents to commit violent crimes. In Texas, for example, the rate of concealed carry is about 1.8% (as of December 31, 2010). Approximately one Texan out of every 55 is licensed to carry a concealed handgun. Yet, according to official statistics, Texas concealed handgun license holders are five and a half times less likely than members of Texas’s general population to commit manslaughter and four times less likely to commit murder. Despite Texas’s high rate of concealed carry, a person in Texas is more than 20 times as likely to be struck by lightning as to be murdered or negligently killed by a concealed handgun license holder. (Texas Department of Public Safety, five-year average of statistics on criminal convictions of CHL holders, 2002-2006; U.S. Census Bureau, yearly estimates of Texas Population, 2002-2006; U.S. National Weather Service, “Medical Aspects of Lightning,” Dr. Marry Ann Cooper)

reply to post by nixie_nox



Exactly, that is what happened at my kid's school, one teacher stood in front of the gunman and said that she will not let him hurt "her kids". That was bravery (and a little stupid cause she could have been killed, although for a great cause) and was enough to hold him back and keep him outside the classrooms until the police arrived. She saved a lot of lives that day.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


And don't forget that there have been no mass shootings in UT schools, as teachers have been allowed to be armed in schools, along with college students as well for some time now.

It is simple, these cowardice killers go to where they are least likely to encounter resistance or someone else with a gun.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
How long until an overworked Teacher loses it and shoots his/her class?
Or how long until a student gets hold of the firearm and uses it?
Madness complete madness.

That could be done already, and without a gun ban.

In fact, any person can flip and go on a rampage, in any walk of life.

A doctor could poison dozens or more, a dentist likewise, a baker again could poison hundreds with their daily bread if they flipped out.

I don't see the logic of ignoring the 2nd and the right of protection for the people, based on 'someone might flip out'..if they did, there would be many more armed that would not go crazy to stop them a lot more effectively than if they had no guns to defend themselves.

If a teacher in a 'gun free zone' flipped out, and started killing kids with any kind of weapon, not just firearms...there is a window of time between figuring out what is going on, reporting it to the police, who have to figure out what's going on, and actually get on scene....by which time, many, many people are going to be dead and seriously injured.

If the other 'non-flipped teachers' were not in a gun free zone and were themselves armed, the lunatic would be handled and put out of action much faster.

Anyone remember this....




Yeah lets allow them in a classroom...

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Anyone remember this....

Yeah lets allow them in a classroom...

Ha ha. That was a DEA officer...you know, those type people that you keep telling us are the only ones to be trusted with firearms. Methinks that you kind of hurt your own argument with that one.

reply to post by boymonkey74


People injure and kill themselves by everyday objects all the time.

About 20 people dies every year by electrocuting themselves with their toasters...
Thousands more with garden tools. Hundreds of thousands using their vehicles...3 million killed by legal, government sanctioned and regulated pharmaceautical drugs...

This cop in your posted video is proof that sometimes, crap happens.

reply to post by NavyDoc


My point is a firearm can go off by mistake in a classroom.
The guy should not have had an loaded firearm in the classroom (doesn't matter who) imagine if it killed a kid?

Originally posted by MysterX

This cop in your posted video is proof that sometimes, crap happens.

Highly trained crap.

If memory serves that idiot is/was with the DEA. Even more highly trained.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

I can tell you that if they want to start arming teachers, far more kids are going to get killed by accident than will ever be protected.

purely misguided opinion or some facts to back up this nonsense ?

not so long ago, students were armed alongside their teachers.
there wasn't many if any "massacres" then ... what makes you think it would be different now?

perhaps you should consider that the only places massacres do occur (in any country) is in gun free zones. eliminate those and the rest will work itself out.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

My point is a firearm can go off by mistake in a classroom.
The guy should not have had an loaded firearm in the classroom (doesn't matter who) imagine if it killed a kid?

Firearms do not "just go off." It went off because he was an idiot who was finger f%cking his duty weapon during a demonstration. The idea of CCW is that it stays in the holster until it is needed, not to be brought out for show and tell.

reply to post by boymonkey74


WOW, you provide a video of an idiot ATF agent, that is messing around with a loaded firearm in a classroom as reason why not to allow teachers to be armed??

I fail to see where the idea of having teachers armed, equates to having them messing with their firearm in this manner.

That is a failed attempt to really stick your nose into the business of a Country that you are not a citizen of.

Personally, I think most Canadians, Brits and Aussies are jealous that we are still allowed to exercise (Kind of at least) our personal freedoms here.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by WhereIsTheBatman

 

result - the teachers will be the first victims in any future utah school shooting

Please show me one school shooting where a Teacher was not one of the first victims? I'll wait... but good luck finding one.

Fact is Teachers are the first targets anyway. Instead of standing there being shot at with a pencil in your hand, how about we give these Teachers the ability to defend not only themselves, but the children as well?

Now let us pretend for a minute. What would happen in a school with 25 armed Teachers? Just what do you think would happen in a school where a shooting takes place when the first Teacher is shot? Answer: You'd have 24 other Teachers armed and ready to defend themselves. The chances of a massacre like we see at Sandy Hook would not happen.

reply to post by macman


Ah yes another person saying keep your nose out....that's fine if you do the same when something happens in another country.
I have an interest in the USA because my son is an American and is in NYC.
Jealous? because we chose not to have a nation with so many guns? no I think not.
Freedom? come on you and I know freedom is a lie.
That's it I'm out arm your teachers do whatever you want.
Sick of the insanity on ATS at the mo.