I'm a gun owner and support the 2nd amendment...and yes I'll protect you too

Originally posted by mwood
I agree fully.

I conceal carry and if in a position to save someones life I will not even ask their political views before doing so.

Your welcome libs.....

Ugh...by "libs", you probably mean Democrats, even though "liberal" and "conservative" have been so grossly twisted out of their meaning. For example, "conservatives" should be the ones pushing government to stay out of the way of gays who want to marry, and pushing the government to stay out of foreign wars. They should also be low-spenders of taxpayer money.

Anyhow, my gripe is that these broad brushes only serve the scum in power. You, obviously, think Democrat-voting citizens are anti-gun. Myself, and most of the people I know, vote Democrat in most cases, but myself, and probably 90+% of my circle of friends and family, are either gun-owners, or planning to be as soon as they can afford it. We're not irrationally scared that the "big bad libs" are going to take our guns away, despite the Constitution. That kind of thinking only serves to hurt the cause, as you assume a huge number of pro-2nd Amendment citizens are anti-2nd amendment.

Now, if you're a Rep politician, it works in your favor. Republican voters are highly motivated by their fears, and will often vote against their own self-interests, as well as against the interests of the nation, and in most cases, against Constitutional principals, mainly because thry believe false fears like "Libs dun gonna take yer guns away!" or "gay marriage is gonna male my marriage fall apart!"

This isn't all Republicans, but a large enough voting bloc is gullible and cowardly enough to think that way. Unfortunately, there's a large coalition of what you call "libs" who are pro-2nd amendment. We're not all Hollywood actors.

Originally posted by Paschar0
Maintaining an armed citizenry allows us to defend against and give pause to tyrannical governments that would just as soon strip you of all power, privacy and resources for any given reason at any given time. History is full of examples of how disarming the population is a crucial step in gaining control.

I would be interested in having a constructive debate about guns because I respect your opinion. About myself, having lived in several countries I am biased, let’s say, differently than people who have lived their whole lives in one country.

1) If you use a gun to protect yourself from the government you will be treated the way that most people will say you should be treated, like a distraught animal.

2) If the government is allowed to use drones and military to kill and arrest you without trial and the media will announce whatever “facts” the government dictates them, then I would suggest that they have already stripped you of all power and privacy.

In history, when the military had nothing more powerful than guns, guns were a meaningful weapon of defense. But guns are not helpful to defend against drones, FEMA camp barbed wires, armored water canons, etc.

In my opinion, only the Constitution can protect We the People from abuses of the government. The US Constitution is proving incapable of doing so any longer. Which means that we are doomed because guns cannot change this, other than through a bloody revolution.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by facelift
reply to post by Paschar0

 

When and if the time comes, people like me will be defending not only those that supported the 2nd amendment, but yes, even you that would fight against our rights today. In the end, you are my brothers. When criminals come, either in jackboots or gang colors, I'll fight for you, your family and anyone else.


Then you do several of us a disservice...


Many of those that would "fight against our rights', will resort to extremes themselves and NOT in your favor.


When it does come time chief, your gonna need to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff...otherwise you aid the enemy, as a line will indeed be drawn.


Appreciate the rest of it though...

I have to agree here. The people who willingly give up their guns and/or welcome tyranny with open arms are as much the enemy as the perpetrators. They will rat you out in a heartbeat. They will be in the way.

edit on 26-12-2012 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)

Oath keepers protect not only the people who cannot protect themselves but even those whom are ill informed as they eventually feel the repercussions of their ill advised initial motives. The rest can burn in hell... If there was a hell that is.

Originally posted by hellbjorn012

Originally posted by Paschar0


You should know that hunting and self defense are not the reasons we have the 2nd amendment. Maintaining an armed citizenry allows us to defend against and give pause to tyrannical governments that would just as soon strip you of all power, privacy and resources for any given reason at any given time. History is full of examples of how disarming the population is a crucial step in gaining control.

I support the 2nd amendment but the Rambo threads are getting very old on ATS. I'm sure your shotguns, Ar-15s and 40 cals will stop a M1Abrams with a barrage of .50 cal lead headed your way. :/

I stand 100% behind the 2nd amendment!

That being said!! Why do people always brag about owning guns on my Facebook and ATS? You are in America most people have guns. People should stop making comments like lock n loaded and ready or we are cleaning our guns. Owning a gun doesn't make you special or a bad ass. Anyone can own a gun it DOES NOT VERIFY YOUR MANHOOD. But the majority of American citizens cant run a couple of miles or pull themselves over a wall.

People bragging about there arsenals and preparedness just make sane gun owners look like gun crazy John Wayne wannabes


Also while I own a few firearms of the non assault rifle type im just waiting on you guys who are more armed than me with 3-4 Ar15s and a dozen more guns with thousands of rounds to go overthrow this corrupt government. All this talk and no action what ya'll waiting on? Ill be behind you with my lowly 9mm as soon as you Rambos with your over-sized arsenals make the first move on DC

Originally posted by g146541

The strong will survive and the weak probably won't.
Let those who are willing to stand by their "ideas and morals" go ahead and walk into the cattle car.

Buying a gun doesn't verify your manhood nor does it make one strong :/

edit on 27-12-2012 by hellbjorn012 because: (no reason given)

So, how many Arbrams do the Taliban have that are currently holding out strong in Afghanistan or how many Stingers did the Vietcong have as they wolloped the US in guerrilla warfare?? Remind me again how they won?

Oh how we forget that when we declared our freedom from the crown, most the combatants were mere farmers. Many were using garbage weapons. At times, we fired rocks from our muskets. We persevered and the great men that formed this nation wanted to ensure that tyranny could not return without a fight.

If you honestly think such a tyrannical government can't happen again, one must look at Russia. The people had a short period of freedom but now they are once again thrown behind the iron curtain.

You call in Rambo, I call it reality as human greed as proven over a millennium that people given the opportunity, will take your freedom away. The best way to do that is take away your ability to defend your self.

reply to post by Paschar0


Oh please. Your little pop gun is utterly worthless. Yeah, I'm gonna look to you for protection against drones, armies, etc. What a jingoistic nitwit. Go back in your survivalist cave.

Originally posted by FeatherofMaat
reply to post by Paschar0

 

Oh please. Your little pop gun is utterly worthless. Yeah, I'm gonna look to you for protection against drones, armies, etc. What a jingoistic nitwit. Go back in your survivalist cave.

There are nearly 100 million armed Americans and nearly 300 million weapons. They reason our government has been so nice over the years and have tried to strip us of our rights with every new administration is for the mere fact that there is NO way they could win a conflict against a civilian uprising.

reply to post by wulff


Whoa! Some other nut, a hundred years ago, blew some people up when he got mad? That's pertinent to this discussion. I'm not sure what point you may have been trying to make. But, if that point was that anyone at anytime can kill another person with just about anything, than I think you're right. If, additionally, you're implying that if other people would simply arm themselves that violence wouldn't happen, I don't agree. As you're explaining, nuts can kill with anything they can get their hands on. Adding guns to the mix just makes their murderous rampages all the more easier to start, easier to cause much more severe damage that if some other potentially dangerous item is wielded, including a stick of dynamite - which according to your 1927 story did not kill any where near 20 people. If guns are present in a situation, the likihood of gun violence is increased dramatically compared to the same situation minus the gun. I don't see how that simple reality isn't accepted by clear thinking individuals. Personally, I have no problem with gun ownership. I do have a problem with gun worship, however. When keeping your un-necesary, high-volume ammo, assault-type weapons becomes more important to you than the rights of everyone else to feel safe, I believe your perspective has become skewed.

reply to post by Bearack


If tomorrow the government required all weapons to be turned into them, the majority of people would do so. 300 million gun owners would NOT organize into armed resistance aginst the US government. That's the kind of paranoia that keeps gun owners scared. Instead of imaging all of things that might go wrong, I urge you to take a moment and consider all of things that are actually wrong. Wild game is not armed, at all. A machine gun is not need to kil a deer.

Originally posted by TownCryer
reply to post by Bearack

 

If tomorrow the government required all weapons to be turned into them, the majority of people would do so. 300 million gun owners would NOT organize into armed resistance aginst the US government. That's the kind of paranoia that keeps gun owners scared. Instead of imaging all of things that might go wrong, I urge you to take a moment and consider all of things that are actually wrong. Wild game is not armed, at all. A machine gun is not need to kil a deer.

The thought that the 2nd is about hunting or sporting is a false argument planted by those who want to limit it, it has been repeated as mantra for so long some have come to believe it.

The 2nd is there specifically for the people to defend themselves from tyranny - period.

Read federalist papers detailing how and why founders considered items put into the constitution and you may see the truth.

As far as machine guns are concerned they,ve been banned from manufacture in civilian market for decades and under strict federal limits since 1934, the mere mention is strawman argument at its worst.

Originally posted by TownCryer
reply to post by Bearack

 

If tomorrow the government required all weapons to be turned into them, the majority of people would do so. 300 million gun owners would NOT organize into armed resistance aginst the US government. That's the kind of paranoia that keeps gun owners scared. Instead of imaging all of things that might go wrong, I urge you to take a moment and consider all of things that are actually wrong. Wild game is not armed, at all. A machine gun is not need to kil a deer.

You are sadly mistaken if you think the people of this nation would willingly turn in their weapons and allow the federal government to piss down our backs and call it rain.

Again, the 2nd amendment has NOTHING to do with sport or game. That is the mistake when we allow people who are constitutionally uneducated doing legislation for the people!

Originally posted by TownCryer
reply to post by Bearack

 

If tomorrow the government required all weapons to be turned into them, the majority of people would do so. 300 million gun owners would NOT organize into armed resistance aginst the US government. That's the kind of paranoia that keeps gun owners scared. Instead of imaging all of things that might go wrong, I urge you to take a moment and consider all of things that are actually wrong. Wild game is not armed, at all. A machine gun is not need to kil a deer.

I find it remarkable that even after it's been explained ad nauseam that you continue to completely miss the point. So again, many buy the best weapon they can afford, the most firepower, reliability and versatility available. It allows you to hunt, defend and if necessary fight. You don't need a machine gun for the deer, but you would certainly want it in other situations and if you're only going to get one weapon, that's the one you want.

Also, we don't need 300 million, we only need a small fraction to accomplish almost any goal. It's simply a matter doing it and that's the real fear government has and is why they want weapons confiscated, it has NOTHING to do with a few massacres, only the most naive believe this. Many are starting to see things for what they are, but sadly this won't include you. Honestly, you seem very limited in your perspective and somewhat childish in your rants.

Originally posted by noonebutme

Originally posted by Paschar0
You should know that hunting and self defense are not the reasons we have the 2nd amendment. Maintaining an armed citizenry allows us to defend against and give pause to tyrannical governments that would just as soon strip you of all power, privacy and resources for any given reason at any given time. History is full of examples of how disarming the population is a crucial step in gaining control.

Fascinating.

As a non-American I often read your arguments "for" your 2nd amendmentwith the tyrannical govt and standing up to them.

Let's say things go to pot and the US govt decides, for whatever laughable reason, to "take over" its own citizens by force and round you up into controlled camps. You and your armed beer-swigging buddies say, "Nuh uh, not on my watch" - you grab your assault rifle(s) and...do....what? What do you do?

Please explain how your armed militias/citizens, with their paltry automatic weapons, rifles and handguns, will stand up to your govt using their own Armed Forces, with their tanks, explosives, helicopters, jets, drones, and highly trained soldiers, coordinated by advanced telcomms, satelites and hundreds of other highly advanced bits of kit the citizens DO NOT have.

I always love hearing this argument because, no matter how "noble" or patriotic you aim to be, you will be crushed, instantly, by your govt. For all your armed citizens, you will be nothing against an organised army.

At that point, when you guys are lying face down, you can chant your Heston mantra, "I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands".

edit on 27-12-2012 by noonebutme because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-12-2012 by noonebutme because: (no reason given)

You obviously know nothing about warfare....

Yeah because that superiority has allowed us to CRUSH the insurgents in Afghanistan, as did the Russians...lol, who have less capability than the many former (and current) soldiers in the armed forces.

There are many within the military that will be on the side of the people once the catalyst that sparks a revolution occurs.

The thing that the gov has tried to maintain is the frog in the boiling pot. They have been turning up the heat gradually hoping that the frog won't leap out. If they continue along those lines they may succeed in taking all liberties. I don't think they will. They will get over excited and try to do too much at once.

It isn't the people with AR's that they have to worry about, it's the people period. There are less than 4 million soldiers many of whom are overseas. If even 1/10 of those who are armed in the citizenry stand up, the superior fire power would mean NOTHING. That's if absolutely NONE of the military break off and fight for the people.

Jaden

The people ALWAYS have a fighting chance because the gov. has to keep at least some of the people complacent and accepting. When you don't know who you're up against, you have to either lose or risk losing the hearts and minds of the people you have to oppress in order to find those who are against you. We showed that with some of the farmers that we put in GTMO and released for them to become opposition. I know, I was AT GTMO in military intelligence.

Originally posted by Phoenix

Originally posted by TownCryer
reply to post by Bearack

 

If tomorrow the government required all weapons to be turned into them, the majority of people would do so. 300 million gun owners would NOT organize into armed resistance aginst the US government. That's the kind of paranoia that keeps gun owners scared. Instead of imaging all of things that might go wrong, I urge you to take a moment and consider all of things that are actually wrong. Wild game is not armed, at all. A machine gun is not need to kil a deer.

The thought that the 2nd is about hunting or sporting is a false argument planted by those who want to limit it, it has been repeated as mantra for so long some have come to believe it.

The 2nd is there specifically for the people to defend themselves from tyranny - period.

Read federalist papers detailing how and why founders considered items put into the constitution and you may see the truth.

As far as machine guns are concerned they,ve been banned from manufacture in civilian market for decades and under strict federal limits since 1934, the mere mention is strawman argument at its worst.

Don't allow yourself to be fooled into believing that machine guns are illegal, they are NOT. The firearms act of 1934 only placed a tax on the purchase of class III firearms, which technically is constitutionally illegal anyways; however, purchasing and owning a machine gun is not illegal at all... Not paying the tax on it is what's illegal.

People are NEVER arrested for illegal firearms, there are no such thing as illegal firearms. They are arrested for tax evasion...

Jaden

I try to avoid this gun posts, but i have to say i respect your post and your willingness to stand your ground on whats right.

reply to post by Bildo


Bilbo, you are and ALWAYS have been a Non-statutory Citizen, an American National, everyone outside of the location of D.C. is, we have to state that and show NO I.D. EVER!!! You claim your status and they have no control, they can do nothing short of committing federal crimes against you in which you can have them arrested and imprisoned. I have freed myself and am educating everyone I can on how to talk to the security team (policy enforcement officers otherwise known as cops).

Once you comprhend and not "under stand" or stand under them, then you are fearless and free. If we all cam together and formed a grand jury, we could indict these a-holes and put them in prison where they belong. We just have to all come together to do it!!!

Live free or die. Guns or no guns, it is going to get ugly!!!!