question for aussies about guns

Originally posted by Unrealised

Originally posted by 727Sky
A brief Google search came up with: Estimated Number of Illicit Firearms
Unlawfully held guns cannot be counted, but in Australia there are estimated to be 550,0003 to 6 million8

Um, where the hell did you get THAT number from??

ACC Website (Australian Crime Commission)

www.gunpolicy.org...

The Australian Crime Commission (ACC) conservatively estimates there are more than 250 000 long-arms and 10 000 handguns in the illicit firearm market.

That's a little bit more realistic, mate.

reply to post by DaesDaemar


Im sure you could ask a biker or a gangster or some one?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

How many of you have used your guns on cartel members?

It happens daily in Texas you should know that it is reported daily. Honestly a simple google search will give you thousands of hits. I don't think you understand the situation near the boarder. Different areas have different problems. From what I understand you still have drivebys in your country. Pot-Kettle.

I saw that comment that mentions drive bys, Maybe it happens in some Sydnet suburbs but its not the norm.
Anytime theres a shooting in OZ its big news, wed know if drive bys were a regular occurance.

Whoever said we have drive bys on a daily basis was being a drama queen.

What exactly am I meant to be googling?
I googled texas people use guns against cartels and all that came up was stuff about cartels profiting from the ease of guns coming into mexico from the US

It says thats were they get most of their guns from, doesnt seem like a great argument for your side to be honest

reply to post by 727Sky





I think I'd believe the official ACC Website over gunpolicy.org.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Try texas boarder crime, Texas boarder home invasion, texas border killings, dangerous texas border, and cartel crime killings texas.


The simpelest searches are the best results. I would post the links but it will not link the searches for some reason.





Murder with a firearm has dropped some in your country the murder rate seems steady so it doesn’t make a very good argument for gun control since people are being killed just as often they are just being killed a different way. It looks like some crime has gone up like burglary’s.



It looks like the murder rate has gone down a bit since CCW permits have been made easier to obtain in the US.

Seems like the numbers say Americans are safer with more people legally able to carry firearms on them. The murder rate droped. Shouldn’t the debate be about stopping murder instead of making them use a different method of murder?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

Try texas boarder crime, Texas boarder home invasion, texas border killings, dangerous texas border, and cartel crime killings texas.


The simpelest searches are the best results. I would post the links but it will not link the searches for some reason.

I checked all those searches and from what I can tell those home invasions all involved American who stole from the cartels. No robbery, no rape, no beating of wives and children just disapearring people who played the game, didnt play well and lost. You steal from a drug cartel your asking for whatever you get in my opinion.
None of these people were innocent victims and guns would not have helped them at all!!

Once again it seems to me criminals mainly use guns on criminals, their business is drug trafficking, killing innocent civilians is not good for business, killing people who rip them off is good for business as it discourages others doing it.

Im yet to see any evidence that it is a good idea for people to be armed

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Well I am sorry you didn’t look very hard becuse it is there. Literally thousands of pages.


I gave you some graphs above sorry they didn’t turn out very well but the numbers show your murder rate has stayed pretty much the same while burglaries have skyrocketed since you lost your guns and at the same time since the US made it easier to obtain Concealed carry permits our murder rate dropped drastically so I am sorry but that does not make a very good case for gun prohibition. If the graphs are too hard to read I got them from here.

www.aic.gov.au...

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

Well I am sorry you didn’t look very hard becuse it is there. Literally thousands of pages.


I gave you some graphs above sorry they didn’t turn out very well but the numbers show your murder rate has stayed pretty much the same while burglaries have skyrocketed since you lost your guns and at the same time since the US made it easier to obtain Concealed carry permits our murder rate dropped drastically so I am sorry but that does not make a very good case for gun prohibition. If the graphs are too hard to read I got them from here.

www.aic.gov.au...

It says that burglaries have decreased by 38% since 2001

Also those figures seem to be exact numbers as opposed to per capita, we have had a significant increase in population since 91.

Any increase or decrease in crime in OZ has to do with drugs and not guns

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Look at the secound graph from the bottom it is per 100,000. It has gone up.

The burglary rate has gone up it may be due to drugs but homes are targeted more now. I bet if people were allowed to defend their homes the rate would drop.

Our population has gone up as well no excuse.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

Look at the secound graph from the bottom.

Our population has gone up as well. No excuse.

edit on 25-12-2012 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

My bad, didnt look at the dates on the graph.

So if those figures are because of a lack of guns why have they started dropping? shouldnt they still be going up?
Burglaries are not home invasions they happen when people are out so having a gun in the house would have most likely just meant that a burglar is now running around with one.

Between about 88 and 03 we had a heap of cheap heroin around, you couldnt walk through a capital city without seeing junkies on every corner. Its pretty much accepted as fact in OZ that these burglaries and snatch thefts were a direct result of that and had nothing to do with guns.

Why do you associate burglaries in anyway with guns? once again these occur when people arent home??

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

Look at the secound graph from the bottom it is per 100,000. It has gone up.

The burglary rate has gone up it may be due to drugs but homes are targeted more now. I bet if people were allowed to defend their homes the rate would drop.

Our population has gone up as well no excuse.

edit on 25-12-2012 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

Once again people arent in their homes when burglaries happen, how could having a gun help in this situation?
Can you not see that if these homes that were burgaled had guns it would just mean that the burglars would now have them?

Australia never had an issue or love of guns even before the ban, no one here gets robbed and thinks "damn I wish I had of had a gun"

You are not helping your argument in anyway going down this path

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


So you speak for everyone stating you don’t mind being burglarized? You guys seem to be easy targets for criminals.

The fact is the numbers support the hypothesis that banning guns has little or no effect on crime and if anything it has emboldened home burglary. I am sure there have been a few instances of people being home when it has happened it would be a miracle if there hasn’t. As you said these people are probably drugies even worse. I wonder how the people who have been victimized feel about the gun laws. I think more than a few of them would disagree with you on gun bans especially the ones that were home at the time.

In America we have home invasions and there have been more than a few occasions where it has turned violent. Maybe you guys are just lucky.

Hmmm lets see.......Google........Hmmm........Ehhem.....Ermm.....Tsk Tsk..

www.telegraph.co.uk... tml
Nope you guys have the same problem. Too bad they didn’t have a pistol or a shotgun they probably wouldn’t have had bleeding on the brain or skull fractures.

What else .......Eww.....Its bad....OMG.....Poor girl.....I had no idea.
www.abc.net.au...
au.news.yahoo.com...
www.hotheadlines.com.au...
I see what giving up your guns has done. It has made you all easy targets. The more I look into it the more the statistics and facts show that a weapons ban has been a huge mistake on your part.

You said you had a bad heroine problem we used to but now people are into Meth and some new drug called bath salts. I am sure you heard about the guy that was eating another guy. A couple of instances like that have happened I think one guy was killed when he tried to eat a passer buy. CCW permit. Very rare stuff but freaky. People acting like zombies. It’s a sick world.

I tell you this much if meth or bath salts catches on in your country you guys will probably be changing the laws for home defense. It is a bad problem here in poorer states. My grandmother lives in Arkansas and I go out there twice a year a little hunting and fishing but you have to be weary because you can walk up on a lab fairly easy. So much wooded land out there it’s easy to hide a trailer.

Hmmm lets see somthing.....When did you guys ban guns? Lets see..2002.
www.aic.gov.au...
AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN
It looks like violent crime and sexual assault has risen in your country

•In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
•Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
•Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Anyway facts are facts. I guess this has been the reason no one from the anti-gun camp has tried to present evidence to support their position. Usually when someone has a strong case you see them post links graphs and quotes.

You guys do not even boarder a third world country. You are secluded and as a nation without any outside pressure have shown without a doubt baning guns hasn’t effected murder rates and since doing so crime has risen in some cases doubled. Yet in America we relaxed the laws and crime including murder has dropped.

I am sorry but you haven’t provided any evidence to support banning guns. You are solely motivated by your disdain for them and your entire position is only backed by emotion. You have helped me realize that banning guns would be a huge mistake. Facts and evidence can sway me not emotion.

I didn’t really want to talk about it on this thread anyway but I feel like the matter is fairly settled.

I originally was here to find out more about Australia from locals somehow it switched to your old thread. Oh well it made me look up the statistics for your country so mission accomplished. Funny thing is I thought before today that people were embellishing the truth when they said crime went up after the ban there but it turns out they were right.

Originally posted by Perhaps

Originally posted by wewillnotcomply666
Guns are pretty easy to get in Australia . Walk down to any biker clubhouse or most tattoo places with a few bucks and youl leave with what you want lol.

No, that won't happen... getting your name on the "missing persons" list is about all you will achieve there.

edit on 25-12-2012 by Perhaps because: (no reason given)

LOL, no . I can guarantee you thats how it will happen, from experience.. Are you from Aus and have you tried it ?

Originally posted by winofiend

Originally posted by goou111

Originally posted by wewillnotcomply666
Guns are pretty easy to get in Australia . Walk down to any biker clubhouse or most tattoo places with a few bucks and youl leave with what you want lol.

that is what i assumed.. i wanted people to put the gun control debate aside and just say yeah i could get one if i really wanted one

Apart from the fact he's full of shine..

Yep, bikers hanging out in their clubs with neon signs flashing over the door "Guns Cheap", the hooker standing next to the fly screen giving you a look up and down, as you shake your way past the tattooed bikers with their beards and muscles... quivvering you walk up to the shaded doorway and a voice booms "What is it you want."

"A gun, sir."

"A GUN? A GUN?"

"Yes sir."

"That'll be $5.80 thanks, would you like some meth with that?"

That is the most ridiculous reply i have ever recieved lmfao.
I know MANY bikers and know personally of many people who have bought guns off them . . No one mentioned a neon sign or hookers you fool omg haha.
And im not saying its that cheap , again , you make a fool of yourself . If you go with a decent amount of money , say 200 , you will most likely leave with what you want. If you look like a snitch orsomeone who is just trying to rat them out then yeah it might just not work out believe it or not .

Originally posted by winofiend

Originally posted by wewillnotcomply666
Guns are pretty easy to get in Australia . Walk down to any biker clubhouse or most tattoo places with a few bucks and youl leave with what you want lol.

Hidden camera, youtube, you're a star.

Annnnd Action!

(prove it..)

Actually , THIS, not tkes place of most stupid reply.

Do you think i have a death wish ? I would risk my life to make arrogant , big headed people like you happy ?

Nice try mate but go chase stars on your posts somewhere else.

Who would be stupid enough to post that on youtube after they trusted you to buy them off them haha , thats a pretty easy way to get your legs cut off

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff

Originally posted by wewillnotcomply666
Guns are pretty easy to get in Australia . Walk down to any biker clubhouse or most tattoo places with a few bucks and youl leave with what you want lol.

Total BS

If your a bikie sure you can most likely get one but the average citizen walks into a bikie club and asks for a gun....Youd be lucky to leave with a black eye.

Are you even Australian?

Another fool who knows nothing about what bikies are like . lmao .

Walk in and have a conversation with them without crying and #ting in your pants to make them want to belt you , and they will probably invite you to come back for their weekly poker game . Bikies arent all bad and some of the comments i got back on this are ridiculous , meet a few bikies and get to now them lol.

Yes ,i am Australian and have seen gun exchanges from them to citizens first hand.

reply to post by wewillnotcomply666


Mostly what I have heard is that it is hard to obtain anything but a revolver illegally. Have you seen semi auto handguns exchanged?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by wewillnotcomply666

 

Mostly what I have heard is that it is hard to obtain anything but a revolver illegally. Have you seen semi auto handguns exchanged?

In all the guns ive seen exchanged i think i only saw 1 or 2 revolvers mate.

If you go through the right people you can get an m-16 in a week or two .

Originally posted by wewillnotcomply666

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by wewillnotcomply666

 

Mostly what I have heard is that it is hard to obtain anything but a revolver illegally. Have you seen semi auto handguns exchanged?

In all the guns ive seen exchanged i think i only saw 1 or 2 revolvers mate.

If you go through the right people you can get an m-16 in a week or two .

thanks for the honest answers.. i knew you could still get em if you really wanted them

to think just because there bikers they are beyond approach is just silly.. they are just people

reply to post by wewillnotcomply666

Another fool who knows nothing about what bikies are like . lmao . Walk in and have a conversation with them without crying and #ting in your pants to make them want to belt you , and they will probably invite you to come back for their weekly poker game . Bikies arent all bad and some of the comments i got back on this are ridiculous , meet a few bikies and get to now them lol.

My uncles a rebel and Ive been to a club house.

You walk in off the street as a stranger and ask to buy a gun see what happens, best case scenario they throw you out. In no scenario are you walking out with a gun.
If you know them or have dealings with them maybe its diffrent but the average citizen, not a hope in hell.

As for you seeing gun exchanges first hand, once again your either a criminal and we all agree crims will get guns or your full of it