Netanyahu: Jerusalem is ours, I don't care what the UN says

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

"owned by Christians" is like being owned by communists. It makes no sense. It's not a technical term.

Christianity is a religion. Communism is a political system. Classic non-sequitar arguement if I ever saw one.

The city has no importance for Christianity other than a tourist trap. There is no Christian hierarchy there. There is no Christian government there. It is but writings in a book, and that is all. Christianity actually technically began in Turkey. It was just a sect of Judaism in Israel. Turkey is where they were called Christian.

You are kidding right? I hope so! It is the holliest place for christians the world over.

in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.-Acts 11:26

Just because the jewish offshoot group became labeled christian at antioch does not validate your point at all.

Because Lebanon is a modern nation and isn't infested with 6th century extremists.

Plenty of muslims live in lebanon and they have plenty of blood on their hands against christians and jews alike. I am talking primarily of hezbollah and their hate against zionists.

Originally posted by Gorman91
Explain how you can hate Zionism but not Israel.

Its the same as I love my country yet hate my government. The same as Americans love their country but cannot trust their government..

They have freedoms because unlike Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, the Iranian people have a generation of liberal revolutionaries fighting for rights, that's why.

It would be wonderful to find sources. both for the Iranian's president's claim, and Morgan's.

Sure, I'll link up a video so you can watch.

That was WW2. Before that and the British colonization, there was a full 500 years of peace. And before the crusades another 500 years before that. Not to mention it was Islam that, after its peace, went on the warpath and got sucked into European conflicts. Those same European conflicts it got sucked into after the crusades ended its dominion and opened up for colonization. So you see, it's a pattern.

I understand that, no doubt Israel will disappear eventually, I'm not saying I want to see that, but its just a pattern..

As far as I'm concerned, they thirst in hatred for war. And this thirst either rests on Europe for 500 years, of on Islam for 500 years. I simply blame whoever it rests on for falling victim to that thirst.

Everyone is guilty when it comes to Jerusalem but right now, we have an issue and thats the issue we should be dealing with.

No one is innocent. For Muhammad conquered to purge the region of polytheism. And the Crusaders the same. So there is no use blaming one side or another when everyone is dancing in blood.

Your right, but again, we have an issue today, do we just let the blood keep spilling? Or do we sort this crap out once and for all. I'm sure there is a point in history where everyone in that part of the world lived in harmony. What is preventing that from happening again? Simply blaming islam is not the answer.

The Ottomans didn't have to get involved with Europe. The Europeans didn't have to take over the befallen Ottomans. But they did. And the blame is on them. Period.

The Ottomans set themselves up for failure, but that doesn't justify the oppression of Arabs from European Jews.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Both communism and Christianity are without borders.

You are kidding right? I hope so! It is the holliest place for christians the world over.

For those who are of the world, yes. Christ doesn't even return in Jerusalem. He returns in Jordan.

Just because the jewish offshoot group became labeled christian at antioch does not validate your point at all.

Sure it does. None of those people came to defend Jerusalem when the Romans came to burn it to the grown.

Let me ask you a very simple question. Why didn't Christians flood into Jerusalem when Israel was founded? Or when the British owned it? Or any other time? Historically, the only time Jerusalem became a sacred place was during the Crusades and the events leading up to them. Before that, and even after it, Jerusalem was but one city to visit. It wasn't even until a few centuries after Christ when "Pilgrims" began to visit.

There is no Biblical reason to view Jerusalem as important at this time. It will be important one day, but that day is not today.

Certainly some, but Lebanon is far better than most places.

reply to post by DarknStormy

Its the same as I love my country yet hate my government. The same as Americans love their country but cannot trust their government..

Actually it's not the same, because Zionism is the belief that a Jewish state should exist, and that would be Israel. The American equivalent would be literally the love of the nation, not the government. So in fact, it's the opposite of what you think.

I understand that, no doubt Israel will disappear eventually, I'm not saying I want to see that, but its just a pattern..

Actually it's not a pattern. Israel is the first change to the pattern in 2500 years. Israel last existed as a semi- free state some time around 130 BC. After that and till the 1940s, it was always fought over between the east and west.

Everyone is guilty when it comes to Jerusalem but right now, we have an issue and thats the issue we should be dealing with.

Sure. One side is building sky scrapers, the other side is launching missiles. The issue seems clear.

Your right, but again, we have an issue today, do we just let the blood keep spilling? Or do we sort this crap out once and for all. I'm sure there is a point in history where everyone in that part of the world lived in harmony. What is preventing that from happening again? Simply blaming islam is not the answer.

It can't be solved for ever. Some parts of the Islamic world will always claim it. The Jews will always claim it. And some Christians will always claim it.

It is impossible to have a permanent peace. But as of today, Israel remains the most capable.

The Ottomans set themselves up for failure, but that doesn't justify the oppression of Arabs from European Jews.

I don't view it as oppression. There is oppression like the kind in South Africa and American blacks. And then there are people whoa re war hungry that must be oppressed until they give up or are eliminated. We did that to the Germans, and to the Japanese. I see nothing wrong with doing that to Palestine until they learn the same lesson.

War sucks, but a long war with many causalities is better than a short war that includes genocide.

reply to post by Gorman91



Part 5 of the interview..

reply to post by DarknStormy


This is an interview. There are no sources for either claim from either side.

Show me sources that prove one way or another. I would no more trust him with truth than Obama or Bush.

I'll note his reaction is similar to Obama when he's on the spot.


Oh hey, listen to his opinions on homosexuality, lol.

Originally posted by Gorman91

Jerusalem must be owned by someone. The most liberal and free society there today is Israel. It deserves the city.

Most liberal society is israel? Haha again you must be joking....

Maybe the most conservative society. Yeah that is close to the truth! Just as conservative as iran with its religious leaders.

Sorry had enough religious extremism for now. Maybe come back later...

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


If you're a woman, gay person, or transgender, you're not going to get stoned in Israel.

Tel Aviv Israel is the only Middle-Eastern country to support gay rights legislation, and the country attracts gay people from Palestine and Lebanon. Tel Aviv has a growing scene and is tolerant and gay-friendly for both men and women.

www.independent.co.uk...


It's funny you'd call me a religious extremist after all this. Still needing to classify me?

reply to post by ntech

Also look at this link and the picture. Link.

Wouldn't pork eating Crusader make a great avatar for someone?

Yeah it would. I've heard them call us pork eating crusaders so it would be funny. Too bad i don't know how to resize it.

NVM i found one

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

This is an interview. There are no sources for either claim from either side.

Really? You will listen to a translator mis-quote what Ahmadinejad says about wiping Israel from the map but an interview with him doesn't cut it?

Show me sources that prove one way or another. I would no more trust him with truth than Obama or Bush.

Geez, sounds like you dont like a Persian speaking some home truths.

I'll note his reaction is similar to Obama when he's on the spot.

Maybe next time he will draw a picture and a line to where he thinks enough is enough with no factual evidence to back his claim..

Oh hey, listen to his opinions on homosexuality

And? What about Saudi Arabia? I'm sure people are treated worse their for homosexuality.. A lady got 3 years jail for being a prostitute, hate to see how they deal with homosexuals. At least this guy can talk about it and be honest how he feels about it.

reply to post by DarknStormy

Really? You will listen to a translator mis-quote what Ahmadinejad says about wiping Israel from the map but an interview with him doesn't cut it?

I've yet to see anyone credibly say it was wrong.

Geez, sounds like you dont like a Persian speaking some home truths.

There is no reason to assume a man on the internet is telling the truth.

And? What about Saudi Arabia? I'm sure people are treated worse their for homosexuality.. A lady got 3 years jail for being a prostitute, hate to see how they deal with homosexuals. At least this guy can talk about it and be honest how he feels about it.

Stalin's crimes don't undo Hitler's.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

Stalin's crimes don't undo Hitler's.

Two wrongs don't make a right either.

Oh for the love of God/Allah/Supreme Creator or whatever God you follow, Jerusalem belongs to the world. I would say make it a World City, like the Vatican is, a country within a country. That way everyone can share and there is no need for everyone else to act like children and say it is mine.

Time for the human race to grow up and for fanatics on both sides to pack it in and start living and stop hating.

reply to post by WhereIsTheBatman


They never do, but they can often end an issue.

reply to post by bjax9er


The Phillistines owned it before the Jews. Maybe they should have it back.

Originally posted by dubiousone
reply to post by bjax9er

 

The Phillistines owned it before the Jews. Maybe they should have it back.

and prior to that it belonged to relatives of Lucy... Maybe they should have it back as well...

See where the circular argument is going?

Some of these arguments are just stupid.

Send all 8 Billion human beings back to where they all came from, that would be Africa. Leave the rest to the dinosaurs. Yes, I know they are extinct, but they should have rights too. This makes just as much sense as some of the other arguments.

I do not give a who's winkle for what someone's idea of God gave them. IF God gave them the promised land then let God come down to stake his claim.

P

reply to post by Wirral Bagpuss


Except that everyone who values the city claims it.

Also the Vatican is not a world city. It is a catholic city. And you can bet that had the Muslims taken it, it would be fought over similarly today.

Isn't it funny like that? The "world" cities out there that are at peace, are only at peace because they are thoroughly conquered by a people.

Oh irony.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


Wow all these posts and the answer is the same, It is a fact that due to religous beliefs peace is and never will be attained in the middle east regarding Israel. It is a mandate from opposing religions, Israel is the promised and rightful land of the Jews, promised by God to inhabit for eternity along with the promise to protect it from all evil. revealations is quite specific on what, who, how this is to be achieved the end result is the return (christain), the appearance of the messiah( Jews). The Islamists claim this is their holy land and are awaiting their return of their savior. The major difference is the Jews are not quite so radical as the Islamic's. Islam calls for the conversion or beheading of all nonmuslims. It is their goal to conqueor the world and have it as an entirely muslim state. With the origins of this struggle based upon thousands of years of strife and wars, with beliefs so deeply rooted, peace is not the Muslims objective. To settle for coexistence and peace is in direct conflict with the teachings of their religion.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

I've yet to see anyone credibly say it was wrong.

What is credible to you? A written statement from the queen of England? Really?

There is no reason to assume a man on the internet is telling the truth.

That is not just a man on the internet. That is the President of Iran.

The quote explained from someone who speaks Farsi

At the core of these fabrications is the claim that on October 25, 2005, during a speech at the Ministry of Interior conference hall, the then newly-elected President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad remarked that "Israel must be wiped off the map." As someone who was born in Tehran, lived there for seventeen years and is a native Farsi speaker, I have read the original transcripts of the speech in Farsi and want to inform you that Ahmadinejad never said "Israel must be wiped off the map," but rather, his statement was grossly mistranslated and taken out of context, perhaps to help make a case for military action against Iran.

I know this proabably isn't up to your credibility staandards but anyway.. And it continues.

Let's analyze what Ahmadinejad said. His exact words in Farsi were as follows: "Emam goft een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzegar mahv shavad."

Now with a little bit of digging, you can confirm this for yourself. You do not need a credible source.

The correct translation of the statement is as follows: "Imam said this occupying regime in Jerusalem must vanish from the page of times."

I don't know how you feel about the above or whether you will even believe it, but that is a very big difference to what you believe he said. Israel is not mentioned once. By him mentioning the word regime, that is a clear indication that his words were directed at the Zionist regime in Israel and not the country itself.