A list of already debunked theories, re: Sandy hook

Originally posted by CinnamonHearts

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by CinnamonHearts

 

I know my kids schools were locked down like that. There was only one way in or out and that was through the office. You didn't have to buzz in though. I imagine it was just an electric door that had to be opened from the inside and not an actual alarm system???

You're probably right. It seems a bit strange to me (and I'm not drawing any conclusions from this, it's JUST an observation), that security didn't kick in until 9:30 when arrival was 8:55 and "Bell Schedule" was 9:05-3:37.

Sally Cox: We do our Pledge of Allegiance at 9:10. And then five minutes later the doors are locked. All the doors and all-- going around the whole building. And then when be--when people come they have to buzz. There's a camera. They push a button. It buzzes in the office and we buzz them in.

www.cbsnews.com...

reply to post by CosmicBob


To everyone who believes that we should trust our Government, that we should believe the official reports and not search further for the truth, I would like to refer you to this post:

(LINK)

LEMMINGS will always outnumber the independent thinkers

LEMMINGS have never understood anything, and don't want to understand anything .

LEMMINGS just want to do what they're expected to do. If you tie a LEMMING to a chair, and explain to him 14 times in the simplest possible language, that if he keeps going in the same direction, he will go over a cliff,he still won't understand and he won't care.

Independent thinking should be encouraged, and the search for the truth NEVER hindered.

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter

Originally posted by vkey08

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
reply to post by vkey08

 

Oh, there you are. I asked a few pages back in what capacity you were able to meet the families once they were
assigned deputies to assure their privacy.

I don't recall reading your answer.

I answered, I was on site that day volunteering.. Worked for various govt agencies over time and am still a licensed social worker so it seemed like the right thing to do at the time.. I've never shied away from assisting if I could in a major catastrophe in the state I'm living..

On site where that day? Could you link the previous post you answered this also?

Are you saying you volunteered at the Fire Department?
What time did the phone text alert go out to parents?
What was the time during which the 600 children were evacuated?

Where was the psych on duty set up in what must have been a bit chaotic?

Wasn't this thread sorry, I thought i had answered you here..

anyhow, I have zero idea what time the text alert went out to parents,I was told by one parent when I got there, that it was about a minute or so after the police were notified, but I can't confirm that, I live just north of Hartford, and was actually in a meeting at my children's school when the incident happened, I got a call on my cell, asking if I was available, and to be prepared for a very chaotic and fluid situation, I responded that I would finish my meeting (my kids had other issues that unfortunately I had to address) and head down there, I arrived about 11-11:15 at SHE, and was directed to go talk to someone from their school department on how best to assist.

I will not explain how I got the call or from whom.. That's not open for debate, or dissemination.

My task was just to carry around a clipboard with names and make sure those people were present and accounted for, in the process of that, of course you run into parents from that school, and it was just well.. chaotic.. AFAIK, the Newtown School District had their own Psych team there, as well as people from Yale to handle the emotional aftermath. Sorry I can't be of more help to your questions, but when I got there, a lot of the kids had already been evacuated, and most parents were there trying to find their kids..

but to address this comment from Shasta:

That's very funny (odd). It makes me question who those involved really are, because they certainly don't act or respond like any 'stable' honest person that I've ever known

So you're saying the entire state is unstable? We're used to the way our police operate, just because the rest of the country isn't, doesn't make it any less a valid way of doing things..

And to answer this one:

I can't believe that during such a horrific event, the surrounding area was not secured; any person could go there and offer their services, yet, local first responders couldn't even do so.

Local first responders were most certainly there first, the State of Connecticut through the Emergency Operations Center called in other people to assist with various functions, just as we did during Hurricane Sandy, and Hurricane Irene, and Winter Storm Alfred.. Again, I won't discuss exactly how i got that call, nor is it anyone's business, a lot of people were asked to come in and assist, it wasn't just "people showing up" it was a very well coordinated set of circumstances that we all are on 24/7 call for, a disaster..

reply to post by CosmicBob


Agree with a lot except..

We have not moved past the second amendment, it's like saying we've moved past the first or the fifth, you get the point. That is one set of laws, that should never be questioned, should never be debated, and no-one in the United States should be for anything that decimates those laws.

Ban assault weapons fine, ban hollowpoint armor piercing ammo, fine, don't ban guns as it's a violation of a basic right we all have. And AFAIK, none of the weapons the shooter(s) used that day were automatic assault weapons, weren't the shots fired from semi's?

Let's not turn tragedy into an excuse to ban weapons to defend ourselves, I'm armed, 24/7, and I will stand right up there and say that it's a better place to be than be helpless in the face of danger..

Originally posted by CinnamonHearts
reply to post by PaperbackWriter

 

I can't believe that during such a horrific event, the surrounding area was not secured;

I had no idea how unsecure until I saw this interview. Apologies in advance for the ad at the beginning of the clip.

I'll set it up for you to give you a better sense of what we're hearing.

We have heard in various reports about how congested the area was around the school and how no one could get close.

I will include just one here to show my point. This is Veronique Pozner, the mother of Noah.

Anyhow...

Veronique drove at 80 miles per hour to the school, praying that her car’s faulty engine would hold up. The streets near Sandy Hook Elementary were so congested that she parked at a nearby Subway sandwich shop and ran to the firehouse, where other parents had gathered.

forward.com...

But then we have this kid...unsourced, yet again.

The brother of one of the students at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, tells HLN affiliate WTNH that his sister heard gunshots and screams over the intercom. He also says he saw police officers bringing children out of the school who were bloody and pale.

But listen to what he says...

"My neighbor called us and said, "We heard gunshots...we heard sirens." "So my Mom and I, we hopped in the car, and went straight to the school, to check, to see what was going on."

They hopped right in the car and went straight to the school. precisely the same thing Mrs. Pozner did.

The reporter then asks him to explain what happened. And he says...

"Well, before, when we first arrived there, there was not a lot of security to, uh, guard and there were 3 children that came out, one of them was, had a very bloody face. It was a very violent scene."

But there wasn't much security??

See what you think.

www.hlntv.com...

reply to post by vkey08


You are saying you were walking around Sandy Hook Elementary School with a clipboard between 11-11:15?

You are saying a team from Yale and a psych team from Newtown?

How could an alert go out one minute after the police were called? How would a parent determine this.

Every report I have seen and read said that the parents and ems were to report to the Fire Dept.

Congratulations, you have made my bs detector on this triple with just this one post.

Thank you,
(Cause I am assuming you want me to believe that as of 11:15 and later no kids had been evac'ed.
How else to walk around with a clipboard and account for people?)

Originally posted by Ladyk74
reply to post by CosmicBob

 

To everyone who believes that we should trust our Government, that we should believe the official reports and not search further for the truth, I would like to refer you to this post:

(LINK)

LEMMINGS will always outnumber the independent thinkers

LEMMINGS have never understood anything, and don't want to understand anything.

LEMMINGS just want to do what they're expected to do. If you tie a LEMMING to a chair, and explain to him 14 times in the simplest possible language, that if he keeps going in the same direction, he will go over a cliff,he still won't understand and he won't care.

Independent thinking should be encouraged, and the search for the truth NEVER hindered.

edit on 30-12-2012 by Ladyk74 because: (no reason given)

As I see it, I may be one of the few "independent thinkers" here. And to polarise individuals by classifying them as "lemmings" and "non-lemmings" is rather absurd. You do not have any more special access to information than the rest of us have. You are not more enlightened than the rest of us.

LEMMINGS will always outnumber the independent thinkers

- I do believe the "lemmings" as you call them are rather outnumbered on this forum. Unjustified.

LEMMINGS have never understood anything, and don't want to understand anything.

- Your evidence for this claim? Since when have any of us "lemmings" indicated we do not understand or want to understand anything? Unfounded.

LEMMINGS just want to do what they're expected to do. If you tie a LEMMING to a chair, and explain to him 14 times in the simplest possible language, that if he keeps going in the same direction, he will go over a cliff,he still won't understand and he won't care.

- What an utterly ridiculous assertion in the context of this forum. Don't chastise us "lemmings" because we question your assertions when they don't make sense.

Frankly ma'am, I find your reference to that of myself and the other few voices of dissent on this forum to be condescending, unfounded and unjustifiably insulting. I have tried to demonstrate a certain level of respect and decorum in my posts and do not believe you are doing the best for this discussion in terms of polite discourse.

To disregard one's views based on an ad hominem, regardless of whether they are for or against the proposition, is not in the spirit of polite debate and I resent your attitude.

At no point have I ever in my posts discouraged people from thinking independently. In fact, if you read my posts, I am actually encouraging it. I am merely suggesting a tried and true method of getting to the truth of the matter while avoiding getting bogged down in all the misinformation already out there.

reply to post by vkey08


Thanks for the response and I respect your views. I agree that the whole gun debate is probably for an entirely different thread and will not discuss it further here. I'm sure there is plenty of common ground those for and those against could find with a bit of reasoned discussion.

reply to post by CosmicBob



First of all, I was quoting from the video and was referring to ALL who have stated more then once we should wait for the official report and why don't we trust our government. With everything presented, to me as an independent thinker the story as represented makes no sense and I have a right to believe that there is much more to be revealed and we have a right to know the truth.

Encouraging of free thinking looks different in my opinion.

It seems like the people who are searching for answers, the people who are spending their time comparing interviews, videos and timelines of SH, are in this thread who says a list of already debunked stories. To me and others there is nothing debunked as of yet.

Originally posted by CosmicBob
And to polarise individuals by classifying them as "lemmings" and "non-lemmings" is rather absurd.

Look on the bright side. People usually get called a lot worse for attempting to apply logic to the Conspiracy Du Jour.

reply to post by swansong19


He said she heard two shots over the intercom.
I got another one here telling me they were walking around at the school also accounting for people at 11am.

At a scene mind you that any police would have stationed police cruisers and blocked it off so this teen would
never have been anywhere near there to see first hand cops carrying out a kid...

Yeah, well I guess so since they didn't allow ambulances in, I suppose we are to believe they hand carried the victims up to the Fire Department where parents were waiting to pick up their children. A great idea to stage the ambulances there, huh?

It's the most convoluted BS story they could possibly come up with.
Thank goodness no children were harmed in the making of this propaganda.

reply to post by PaperbackWriter


Jeezus what a way to pick apart someone's post.. I said

a) A parent had stated that the text alert went out fast, I could not confirm that, even if I wanted to, I wasn't down there when the alert went out, nor do I know when the call went into 9-11 , Note that information was gotten from a parent that was there in the area, had their children in tow, and was trying to get back to their vehicle, after being asked by Channel 8. I will again state, I did not get any text messages, so I can't confirm if this parent was telling the truth or had their time off. I do know in my town, the minute the police are notified by a school of an incident the computer automatically sends out the email/text message/computerized phone call. That's in Hartford County though, I also know Litchfield County is the same way..

b) I never said I was in the school.. I also did not specify a location that i was actually at, you are assuming i was at the firehouse and that I was accounting for children... I was not, I will not discuss more than that, for the reason that it really has nothing to do with what happened, other than coordination of personnel (SHE was used as a general locale, not the physical in the building)

c) Parents were told to report to the fire station, they did not for the most part. They went where they wanted to, to find their kids

d) I also said AFAIK (As far as I knew) the report that was circulating was that the school district crisis team was there, and that a team had been called in from Yale, which is relatively close by.

I will not on a public forum, explain what my exact function was, nor will I discuss what I do for a living, I have a family to protect as well, and well I value some semblance of my privacy, not so someone like LadyK can dig into my trash. Suffice it to say, the State called in a LOT of people that day, it was chaotic, and well.. You had to be there..

I am glad it wasn't my town, is all I can say..

reply to post by Ladyk74


Fair enough, but can you understand my inference that you saw fit to post a link declaring a certain group of people as "lemmings" in response to my post about thinking critically even about the conspiracy theories as an intent to class me as one of that group? Perhaps I misunderstood your intent, but it certainly came off as passive agressive.

Granted, people shouldn't just blindly trust anyone without due cause to. I (and my fellow dissenters I'm sure) are not advocating this. All I am trying to advocate is critical thinking to all the facts presented. Of course we all have a right to know the truth, but it's best to execute good judgement and patience until all the facts are in, of which in this particular case, they are not yet.

I'll acknowledge your claim that the conspiracy theories may have not been adequately debunked yet. The simple fact that people are still persistent in their interest in them is evidence for this. But in my honest opinion, and sticking to Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation for the evidence will win in the end, regardless of what anybody thinks.

Contrary to belief for some on this forum, I actually do believe there is a place in this event for genuine and diligent enquiry into the facts. Just as there is a place for those critical of the claims the conspiracy theorists make. It provides a moderating platform in which a filter can be established to weed out the bad information from the good.

reply to post by vkey08


The barn door is open and your cows are halfway down the pasture now.

You said you reported to SHE. Then you go off telling how that doesn't mean the school?
That parents were called and told to report to the Fire Dept. but for the most part, they didn't.
I'm going to agree with that because there is no evidence that 1500 people including LE and
peeps like you wandering around the Fire Dept.

But, frankly, you lost me when you said you were called in and walking around with a clipboard at the scene
(Some nebulous place now, says you, where people could be accounted for in all the willy nilly of parents going wherever they wanted to find their kids, according to you.)

Originally posted by CosmicBob
reply to post by Ladyk74

 

I'll acknowledge your claim that the conspiracy theories may have not been adequately debunked yet. The simple fact that people are still persistent in their interest in them is evidence for this. But in my honest opinion, and sticking to Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation for the evidence will win in the end, regardless of what anybody thinks.

Yes fair enough.This is all I'm saying, they have not been debunked yet. I'm trying to come up with an explanation that is reasonable, that explains the certain actions taken in SH. So far I couldn't come up with anything and the list of questions is getting longer by the hour.

reply to post by vkey08


It's not even worth the effort. The more you offer any first hand knowledge that contradicts the already calcified conspiracy narrative, the more you're going to be accused of being part of the conspiracy.

Originally posted by swansong19

Originally posted by CinnamonHearts

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by CinnamonHearts

 

I know my kids schools were locked down like that. There was only one way in or out and that was through the office. You didn't have to buzz in though. I imagine it was just an electric door that had to be opened from the inside and not an actual alarm system???

You're probably right. It seems a bit strange to me (and I'm not drawing any conclusions from this, it's JUST an observation), that security didn't kick in until 9:30 when arrival was 8:55 and "Bell Schedule" was 9:05-3:37.

Sally Cox: We do our Pledge of Allegiance at 9:10. And then five minutes later the doors are locked. All the doors and all-- going around the whole building. And then when be--when people come they have to buzz. There's a camera. They push a button. It buzzes in the office and we buzz them in.

www.cbsnews.com...

I guess that particular day, it happened to not be turned on until 9:30. Coincidence, I guess.

How's this for timing? Now, people could obviously argue that the time on her computer was off, but considering all the other things that come into play, I'm not so sure. She sounds genuinely upset when asked to think what this would imply. I got chills. This woman claims that she saw the breaking news story of the shooting on the ticker tape before the actual "confirmed" time of the actual shooting.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by DelMarvel

Originally posted by CosmicBob
And to polarise individuals by classifying them as "lemmings" and "non-lemmings" is rather absurd.

Look on the bright side. People usually get called a lot worse for attempting to apply logic to the Conspiracy Du Jour.

Haha! Indeed, which is why I've found engaging in this forum more worth my time than others.

Originally posted by CinnamonHearts

Originally posted by swansong19

Originally posted by CinnamonHearts

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by CinnamonHearts

 

I know my kids schools were locked down like that. There was only one way in or out and that was through the office. You didn't have to buzz in though. I imagine it was just an electric door that had to be opened from the inside and not an actual alarm system???

You're probably right. It seems a bit strange to me (and I'm not drawing any conclusions from this, it's JUST an observation), that security didn't kick in until 9:30 when arrival was 8:55 and "Bell Schedule" was 9:05-3:37.

Sally Cox: We do our Pledge of Allegiance at 9:10. And then five minutes later the doors are locked. All the doors and all-- going around the whole building. And then when be--when people come they have to buzz. There's a camera. They push a button. It buzzes in the office and we buzz them in.

www.cbsnews.com...

I guess that particular day, it happened to not be turned on until 9:30. Coincidence, I guess.

How's this for timing? Now, people could obviously argue that the time on her computer was off, but considering all the other things that come into play, I'm not so sure. She sounds genuinely upset when asked to think what this would imply. I got chills. This woman claims that she saw the breaking news story of the shooting on the ticker tape before the actual "confirmed" time of the actual shooting.

www.youtube.com...

edit on 30-12-2012 by CinnamonHearts because: (no reason given)

Is it possible that the times you have are not accurate? Listening to your interview in your video, entirely anecdotal evidence, I'm pretty certain there is a much simpler explanation than arriving at the conclusion it must have been a planned event. Probably best to wait on the the official story before jumping to any conclusions.

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
reply to post by vkey08

 

The barn door is open and your cows are halfway down the pasture now.

You said you reported to SHE. Then you go off telling how that doesn't mean the school?
That parents were called and told to report to the Fire Dept. but for the most part, they didn't.
I'm going to agree with that because there is no evidence that 1500 people including LE and
peeps like you wandering around the Fire Dept.

But, frankly, you lost me when you said you were called in and walking around with a clipboard at the scene
(Some nebulous place now, says you, where people could be accounted for in all the willy nilly of parents going wherever they wanted to find their kids, according to you.)

SHE, the school, it's the easiest way to describe the area for me, would you prefer an exact location? Fine, I got there to the area of the school, was told to report to Town Hall, I did. I really didn't want to get into a debate on semantics about whom was where and when.. It was chaos.. what part of that don't you get?

A little aside but maybe it will explain a bit better, it's a situation nothing like a shooting but requires the same type of response.

Last year there was a huge snowstorm. The State called everyone they could out to assist with disaster recovery and assessment. When I wrote out my report on it, I happened to put down that I was at LP, when i was actually about 1/4 mile form there, but that was the closest recognizable landmark to use. Plain and simple, you're arguing semantic, why? Because you want to find every issue with everyone that doesn't believe that this is some huge government conspiracy.. That much I cannot subscribe to, although I do agree there's more to be found out, never have I stated otherwise.

I also clarified, I was not accounting for parents, or children, that was not my job, nor would it have ever been my job, I was accounting for people from the State of Connecticut. Hell I'll even say who I was reporting to that day if it would make you feel better, I was reporting directly to the Deputy House Majority Leader of our State Legislature.. She had no doubts of my report, and in it, as I told Druid42 (whom I happen to trust on this site and consider a friend) off to the side, I expressed a deep concern about the following:

I do not believe in any way shape manner or form that Adam Lanza was the sole shooter and I believe that there was another shooter or shooters involved and that we need to be on alert for that. I was not alone, but noone that mentioned that was taken seriously, they had the body of the guy they said did it. I still think to this day there's another person or person's out there waiting to hit another school, maybe closer to Hartford this time, and that scares me to death, I have kids in school, a school that has a similar security system to Sandy Hook (although a bit older) and they buzz anyone in that hits the buzzer, and the only camera i know of there is the little itty bitty one at the door.

I've given observations on how we do things here in this state, I have also in other places commented that Connecticut has the most screwed up laws in the country, as well as the most screwed up way of doing certain things, one thing however that i have full confidence in, is the ability of the State Police to get a comprehensive report out. They did it after Cheshire, they will do it here. And when I go into work, I can only hope that the Troopers assigned are on top of every lead so that I don't' have to sit in my cruiser outside of my kids school for 8 hours a day to make sure they are OK..

So no.. To recap>> i had nothing to do with monitoring where Parents went or didn't go, or accounting for parents in regards to children, I happened to meet some of them in the process of getting information for someone at the State Capitol and helping to coordinate our response. There were exactly 53 people that were called in by the state to help out, of those I accounted for 50, 3 never made it.. I almost wish I hadn't now...

But I just went and watched video footage again, and parents were everywhere in the video too, they didn't just go to the firehouse, they didn't follow orders and honestly I wouldn't have either, I would have barreled into that school gun drawn and just waiting for someone to tell me my child had died at the hands of some idiot madman (or madmen)

That's what you keep missing in my posts, I don't believe he acted alone, there's no evidence to support a lone gunman, it was too well planned and the shots were too accurate if what the ME said was true. I have questions, just not ones I think anyone here can answer, everyone is too caught on some conspiracy to hide facts..