A list of already debunked theories, re: Sandy hook

On the subject of actors...I present for your examination...

According to Sandy Hook's own website their school claimed over 450 students. A conservative estimate of parents would be 650. That's a grand total of 1,100 people.

From all of those people chaotically racing around the area we have this family. Interviewed not once...but twice...in 2 different locations...by 3 different networks...and no one bothers to ask them/or provide us their names.

Their portion begins 19secs in

www.youtube.com...

Also note that in the second interview the interviewer seems to already know the families story as he says, in relation to the alert sent to parents about the shooting...

..."You're assuming probably that it was the highschool, right?" Woman - "Of course, my son's at the highschool."

And, again...no interest in getting their names.

www.youtube.com...

And here, again...we have "a woman" who's child was in the school being interviewed over the phone by Diane Sawyer. The woman's child was ok...yet Sawyer still doesn't bother to ask, or provide her name.

This "woman" is, as it happens, the basis for the claim of "100s of shots".

The interview begins at 1:00.

www.youtube.com...

Does it mean they're actors? Nope. But try to prove they weren't. I don't ever recall so many unsourced statements being offered up by media. I don't mean "officials say"...I mean actual people...on camera or on the phone...who's names they don't provide.

Like the principal that either called in a statement or gave one face to face...after she'd been killed. We still have no idea where that statement came from. Surely something like that,apart from being in terribly bad taste, is a crime...no? Have the police gotten phone records? Tracked that one down?

As an aside...at about 1:15 the camera begins to zoom in one the firehouse...and lo and behold...what do we see? A bus...backed into the drive of the station.

Could this be the bus associated with Gene Rosen's "bus driver" account? What's it doing there?

It seems like it has been there for quite a while. And it doesn't look as tho it was parked in a panic.

reply to post by PaperbackWriter


Thank you for the link.

Nice of ABC to show the same angle in the photos. I wish they labeled which classroom was which. To me, it seems as though the classroom directly across from the office was empty (Roig's classroom), either it was that one or the one right beside it. With one of those being empty, I don't see how the delivery person would have seen bodies if he was in the office (other than the principal, and why wouldn't he even mention that??)... unless he did not exit the building from the main entrance. But why would he exit the building in direction of where he heard the gunshots?

On the subject of Gene Rosen I present for your examination...

For those unaware Gene Rosen has reported to various media an account of that days events that include 6 children escaping from Sandy Hook Elementary after the death of their teacher, Victoria Soto, and making it to his house where he (he has changed this part of his story on several occasions so for the sake of brevity I will simply say) saw them sitting at the end of his driveway.

He goes on to say that he brought them into his house and cared for them until (again he makes at least 2 varying statement about what transpires next but we’ll say) they were delivered to safety.

A discussion I had with RedBird focused on the ability of the children to make it out of the school and make it to Rosen’s house, which is right next door to the firestation that was used as a staging area, without being seen by anyone. This one thing seemed crucial to me. If it couldn’t be done then that’s a huge hole.

He said they could have gone undetected through the woods…I disagreed, saying the woods did not abut the school and that the children would have to cover too much open ground to go undetected.

A video I found today provides some aerial shots of Sandy Hook Elementary and surrounding area.

In this photo you can see on the left side of the school there does appear to be bush abutting the school to provide cover. So on that count I was wrong. But look closer. Running away from the school, past the ball diamond, is Dickinson Drive. That road leads to the firestation that was being used as a “staging area” and where rescue personnel were kept, much to the surprise of said personnel, while victims were brought in.



img.abovetopsecret.com...


In this next photo you will see on the right a full shot of SHE along with the firestation at the end of Dickinson Dr. At the top right of the photo you can see a manicured yard next to the firestation, surrounded by trees with just the corner of the house showing. This is the home of Gene Rosen. It can be seen much better on the photo on the left.


img.abovetopsecret.com...


Note where the driveway/vehicle access appears to be for this home….the driveway the children were found at the end of. It’s pointing towards the firestation. Yet no one saw them? Came for them? Oddly enough...this view from the driveway would allow him to see the bus parked at the fire station.

Also try to imagine the circuitous route they would have had to take to get to Rosen’s house were they to get out the side without being seen by all the rescue personnel.

It seem far more likely they would have gone straight out the front doors and right across the parking lot towards Rosen’s.

This entire incident at his home as reported time and again by him has stuck in my head like a bad song. I am now convinced there is only the slightest/if any truth to it at all. The misidentifying/apparent absurdity of events at his home that day, including all colorful details is enough for me to call into questions all the events of that day.

At this point I would like to make clear that I am not calling Mr. Rosen a liar. That may sound contradictory…but it’s not. I'll explain should this area of examination be continued.

reply to post by swansong19


I just want to know how Mr. Rosen checked the list of casualties "later on in the day" (the same day the children were at his house), and spotted the name of one of the children whose mother had gone to his house looking for her child.

reply to post by swansong19


That's a lot of typing to say:

"Hmmm... I can't see reality as it is, so something doesn't add up."

Can't you see how ridiculous it is to speculate based on conjecture that exists nowhere but in your own head?

The kids ended up at Rosen's house. Because you can't make sense of that doesn't mean anybody is lying, or there's anything nefarious going on. All the photos you post showing why it doesn't make it sense to you only means YOU can't understand or believe what happened according to your own belief systems.

Guess what? Your beliefs don't define reality.

I'm thinking this is what SO referred to as self-indulgent behavior of ATS members. You can't figure stuff out so that means an innocent man's character must be impugned.

reply to post by swansong19


Nice. At least one or more accounts state that the female busdriver met the children en route and escorted them to his driveway.

And then there's this:
www.nypost.com...


up reaching safety in his house.“They said, ‘They shot her, they shot her! There was blood coming out of her mouth.’

“I couldn’t take this in. I couldn’t fathom this,” said Rosen, a 69-year-old retired psychologist who’d just returned from having breakfast at a local diner.

“I looked down, and I saw these six children on the lawn. I had no idea why they were there. I thought they were there doing a skit or something.

“And then I saw a man just kind of screaming at them and saying, ‘It’s going to be all right! It’s going to be all right!’

“And I thought that was so peculiar — is that part of a play?”



Maybe a little too much truthiness leaking out here?

reply to post by swansong19


What is your fascination with violating people's privacy and wanting their names? It's very possible they asked not to have their names published, and that would be the end of that...

Seriously, this all needs to end. Kids died, end of story... We should be trying to make sure no more kids die in school (and no i'm not anti gun in case you were wondering, in fact i'm always armed) and stop trying to turn this tragedy into a bit for attention. I mean you have one site (Cluesforum) that's taking every picture and screaming CGI CGI CGI, well I'm a CGI artist, and I can tell ya, no CG program I've ever seen can make those types of pictures..

Enough is enough is enough.. These parents aren't actors, they are live flesh and blood people that lost CHILDREN, do you even have a concept of how hard that is? (I can say it I lost a daughter this year, so I can only imagine) Why do you feel the need to keep making these people's lives a living hell, they want to grieve and they want to be left alone.

So I will say it a last time, unless you are willing to call these parents on the phone, or walk up to them in person (which would be better) and accuse them of acting or that they really didn't lose a child or that they're part of some huge conspiracy, then it's not even worth discussing form the hiding point of an internet forum, I know I have about 2 months where I didn't even want to answer the phone after my oldest died, I'm sure it will be longer for these parents because of the sheer atrocious nature of the act..

So what if Mr Rosen exaggerated a little to make himself look good, so what if the news media got it all wrong at first, it doesn't change what happened, someone, or someones shot up an elementary school in Connecticut, one of the smallest land area states in the country, and killed 20 children, between the ages of 6 and 7 right before Christmas. Just put yourself in these parents and townspeople's shoes for ONE MOMENT.. Gods.. the apathy level on this forum is just amazing lately..

reply to post by vkey08


I'm very sorry to hear about your loss. Its unimaginable.

Maybe you should take a break from reading about this, I would totally understand your personal feelings about this and so would anyone else with a heart.

I too would like to wait till the official word is out before any judgements are made, however, if there is something afoot, allowing time to get the story strait is not going to help pushing for the truth. whether there is acting, poor policing or journalism or whatever. There has to be pressure to tell the truth from a presence of those watching.

Some of you should be ashamed of your selves but i don't want that to discourage those that are looking into this with a critical mind.

[i[Originally posted by vkey08
What is your fascination with violating people's privacy

I'm violating their privacy? They allowed themselves to be put on tv...at the scene of the 2nd worst mass shooting in American history...at least twice...and I'm violating their privacy.

Do you see how ridiculous you and this line of reasoning for stipheling discussion, are becoming.

Seriously, this all needs to end. Kids died, end of story...

Wow. That comment sent a chill down my spine.

Enough is enough is enough.. These parents aren't actors, they are live flesh and blood people that lost CHILDREN

First of all. The people in the videos I posted lost no children, according to their own, on camera comments...or shouldn't I take that as fact, either?

Second. You have no idea who they (the people in the vids I posted) are, so stop pretending you do.

Third...at no time in either of my posts did I imply that any of the main participants in this event are/were actors. For you to suggest otherwise strikes me as exactly the type of "libelous" statement we have been getting preached to about.

So I will say it a last time,

From your lips to God's ears

reply to post by swansong19


Amen and well said! There has been enough closing and banning with emotional and ego based reasons as to why. Most major events are emotional; so if we always apply to the emotion-string then there would hardly ever be a thread.

There are inconsistencies with this event that need to be looked into, without the thread closing. I am not into the actors camp, but there are a few open theories that should be allowed to evolve and hopefully come to proof based conclusions. And if it is stated to just let the authorities do the looking into, then why are we here in their first place.

So bravo for standing up against the emotional pleas!!!

Originally posted by ratboy
reply to post by swansong19

 

Amen and well said! There has been enough closing and banning with emotional and ego based reasons as to why. Most major events are emotional; so if we always apply to the emotion-string then there would hardly ever be a thread.

There are inconsistencies with this event that need to be looked into, without the thread closing. I am not into the actors camp, but there are a few open theories that should be allowed to evolve and hopefully come to proof based conclusions. And if it is stated to just let the authorities do the looking into, then why are we here in their first place.

So bravo for standing up against the emotional pleas!!!

edit on 27-12-2012 by ratboy because: (no reason given)

What inconsistencies do you feel the need to investigate? How do propose to conduct your investigation?

How will you determine the facts?

Why are you here? Do you really think any conspiracy has ever been discover or broken open her on ATS by people blah blah blazing, repeating ad nauseous, theories they discovered on blogs or YouTube?

Can you name one?

reply to post by sconner755


The plates have not been debunked via proof yet. Verbal hearsay but not proof. The thread that seemed to be leading towards conclusion got the boot as did a good researcher/digger that had good intent. The plates need to be confirmed and then at least one of the trails' directions will have more definition to it.

Originally posted by ratboy
reply to post by sconner755

 

The plates have not been debunked via proof yet. Verbal hearsay but not proof. The thread that seemed to be leading towards conclusion got the boot as did a good researcher/digger that had good intent. The plates need to be confirmed and then at least one of the trails' directions will have more definition to it.

The plates can be debunked via logic and reason.

Lets say the black Honda plate was Rodia's for sake of argument.

This means the authorities are purposely hiding this information from the public, intentionally deceiving the public.

It means that there is a likliehood that Rodia was involved. It means that the police intentionally did not arrest Rodia. It means that all of the people involved that could have corrected the assertion that the black Honda was Nancy Lanza have kept quiet. It means all of the people that could have IDed the car as Rodia's have kept quiet.

If there were witnesses who saw two shooters in the school they all have kept quiet. It means that all the evidence of a second shooter is intentionally being buried. It means that all those involved are risking accessory to murder charges.

Why?

Especially after the Aurora incident nobody needs n excuse to push the anti-gun agenda. Murdering children with the risk involved of being discovered makes zero sense. In fact, the pro gun lobby has benefitted.

It also means that the same people who are hiding this are the ones that said Rodia's name over the radio. Do you they would create this entire plot, cover it up, and then carelessly ID Rodia over the radio?

It would also mean that the conspirators chose to work with a 2nd rate criminal to pull off mass murder of 20 children. Does that make any sense?

At some point logic and reason have to trump wild speculation. And yes, the other thread had a post from somebody that ran the plates and confirmed the car was Lanza's. of course that's not good enough when you're hell bent on finding conspiracies in everything.

So if that's what you call an "inconsistency" then it's really. Reflection on your own inability to accept the reality as it is. Your lack of seeing reality as it is does not constitute a conspiracy.

Yes, we can turn this into a movie plot with unlimited possibilities. But it's not a movie. It's the real world. Nobody is conspiring to hide the real owner of the black car. That's idiotic,

reply to post by sconner755


The other thread did not prove it - the guy stated a guy ran the plates for him, but nothing was confirmed (ie no print screen or link confirming it, just verbal confirmation). I can go to any thread and verbally confirm something and if that is proof to you, well then you owe me two thousand dollars and my verbal and written word is all that is needed. I am a man of my word so I retract that last statement but I am sure you can understand that verbal lacks proof.

There were many things that logic and common sense without proof made me look the other way. But the plates, after listening to the radio recordings, may point to someone else. Until it is confirmed, then it is not debunked. I can use logic to prove why it is one way or the other. But I am not leading one way or the other. The radio seems to lead that the plates belonged to another and all that is needed is confirmation of who the plates belong to to confirm or debunk this issue. I am not on the emotional side of either answer - I am on the logic side of requiring proof.

reply to post by sconner755


You said this:

At some point logic and reason have to trump wild speculation

seconds after wildly speculating ? Are you intentionally trying to get the thread closed?

My question is why is the information that is released always being redacted or edited I first read about the incident on sourcefed and they leave there original article and just add updates in the bottom and you see how it goes from shooter had two guns that where hand guns, two shooters , deaths where from a .223 rifle then found in a trunk. Father killed at home, Mother among the casualties updated to mother at home. How can a single source give so much info then have to change over half of it later on. The question is not did they die but how where they killed. If a long rifle was used there would be several bullet holes in the walls and doors I know some claim that crime scene photo's are being held till the investigation is through but it is being said that it was a lone shooter and he killed himself I do not see how releasing media would compromise the investigation. I remember footage from the columbine shooters was released not long after the incident and that showed them in the cafeteria shooting , you need visual proof of the events as they began to unfold to lay all these theories to rest

Originally posted by ratboy
reply to post by sconner755

 

The other thread did not prove it - the guy stated a guy ran the plates for him, but nothing was confirmed (ie no print screen or link confirming it, just verbal confirmation). I can go to any thread and verbally confirm something and if that is proof to you, well then you owe me two thousand dollars and my verbal and written word is all that is needed. I am a man of my word so I retract that last statement but I am sure you can understand that verbal lacks proof.

There were many things that logic and common sense without proof made me look the other way. But the plates, after listening to the radio recordings, may point to someone else. Until it is confirmed, then it is not debunked. I can use logic to prove why it is one way or the other. But I am not leading one way or the other. The radio seems to lead that the plates belonged to another and all that is needed is confirmation of who the plates belong to to confirm or debunk this issue. I am not on the emotional side of either answer - I am on the logic side of requiring proof.

edit on 28-12-2012 by ratboy because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-12-2012 by ratboy because: spelling, but I'll leave the bad grammar!

All that is needed by whom?

I assure you the police know who owned the black Honda. You don't need to know. I mean be serious. Every time there's a crime committed do you think the police are obligated to share all their information with the public?

Why ignore the logical inferences that it is highly unlikely, almost to the point of being zero probability, that the police would tell the world the car was Nancy Lanza's if they know it's not?

How unlikely is it that the police would know of a second shooter and hide it from the public? Everybody involved would be an accessory to mass murder.

Like I said, at some point common sense has to kick in.

Is it possible that there is a huge conspiracy and this was a false flag. Sure. It's also possible Adam Lanza was sent from the future like in Terminator.

The line is crossed, in my opinion, when armchair Dick Tracy's begin impugning real people's character for the sake of their own entertainment. Nobody on ATS is going to uncover any conspiracy. Face that reality as you proceed with your quest for the "truth."

Originally posted by Pilot
reply to post by sconner755

 

You said this:

At some point logic and reason have to trump wild speculation

seconds after wildly speculating ? Are you intentionally trying to get the thread closed?

This isn't a movie. This is real life. Yes, people are free to wildly speculate an impugn the character of a man who just lost his daughter, or accuse a Good Samaritan of being a pedophile.

But what's the point? Do you really think all the blah blah blahing on a conspiracy forum is going to break open an NWO conspiracy? Can you cite any time it has?

There are no unsolved mysteries in this case, except perhaps the mystery as to why some people when faced with not understanding reality as it is choose to make unfounded accusations against others. If the principals involved were members here, and those accusations were made against them, those making the accusations would be banned.

Basically it's totally not cool to insinuate regular people were involved in murdering kids, or covering up a conspiracy to murder kids, unless you have proof. If you have proof, call the police, FBI, the media, whatever. There is nothing but baseless speculation in this witch hunt to label this as a nefarious conspiracy.

Just because you lack an understanding of the facts, or something doesnt make sense to YOU, doesn't mean there was a conspiracy to commit and cover up mass murder.

On a legal note, a lawyer friend of mine specializing in Internet law told me there have been defamation cases filed against people hiding behind an avatar. If ATS is served with a subpoena to give out the IP addresses and emails of those who disparaged the people involved I'm guessing they would comply. SO isn't going to risk contempt of court charges to protect identities of douche bags accusing innocent people of being involved in a conspiracy to commit mass murder.

Didn't you hear what the police said about prosecuting people making false claims re this case. They sounded serious to me.

Originally posted by sconner755
The line is crossed, in my opinion, when armchair Dick Tracy's begin impugning real people's character for the sake of their own entertainment. Nobody on ATS is going to uncover any conspiracy. Face that reality as you proceed with your quest for the "truth."

The radio responses appear to state the plate belongs to this other person. If anything is bringing down a person's character it is that radio transmission. Trying to confirm if the plate in fact belongs to this person will either confirm that radio's evil intentions to degrade another person or will deny that transmission. In fact if it is determined that the plate does belong to the Lanzas it will help clear this person's rep that this naughty radio blurted out. If you want to lump this in with the other cases where parents are being called actors or where neighbors are being called something else, then I believe your boundaries are too broad or your intentions lay elsewhere.

Seeking truth does not belong to just those with a badge or a journalist's notepad - but if that is where you only accept your truths, then turn this site off and turn on your favorite news station and bask in all its glory - but don't doubt it whatever you do. Never strive to seek, just accept.