All are NOT created equal

reply to post by dogstar23


That's just it, having the higher likelyhood means they are NOT equal

Originally posted by dogstar23

Originally posted by jiggerj

When this was written, there was still slavery.

reply to post by L8RT8RZ

 

And a couple hundred years later our DNA shows that blacks with a direct lineage back to Africa are 100% human, while everyone else on the planet is 96% human and 4% Neanderthal. Ironic huh?

Wait...is that real, or was that a future theoretical irony? If true, not being a full Homo Sapien (human), I hereby declare myself free from the laws of man (though knowing I could be slaughtered by a human and they would just have to pay a small "property replacement" fine is disconcerting, to say the least!

No, it's real.

Neanderthall DNA in most humans

The phrase "All men are created Equal" only has merit in a very specific context.

We can clearly see that some people posses greater skills or attributes than is common, and some people have deficiencies in various areas.

Equality, by definition, does not apply to general human life, endeavours, capabilities, skills, or attributes....

Equality only applies to one single specific area.....

And that Area, is the Law.

So, the phrase "All men are created equal" is incomplete..... and should actually be:

"All men are equal in the eyes of the law"

Because not only is this the single specific context that makes this statement ethical, but it's also the only context that makes it true.

"justice is blind" is what is meant by "all men are created equal"

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia

Agreed. Justice shouldn't be about what your dna is or what your IQ is or how much money you have or how good you're with words or how charming your personality is.

Basically, we should be judged by our actions and our own merits.

If somebody doesn't pass the test then they shouldn't get the job. The key is not to blindly accept or reject someone UNTIL they've taken the test and passed or failed. The test could be anything.

If I have an employee and she/he is too slow, axe em. If I hire a teacher and I'm getting consistent complaints from students and staff, axe em. President acting illegally? Impeach him/her. If I treat a person with equal rights and they break the law while I'm not looking, prosecute them.

Basically, give somebody a chance and if they don't measure up then tough luck.

only in the eyes of a society you are familiar with by the sounds of it. perhaps they are all created equal and perhaps people are here for slightly different reasons and perhaps to find the ttue purpose of what is going on it is just as difficult for the person in the "poor scenario" you mentioned to struggle through and achieve as it is for the "better off scenario" to get his/her head out their own a$$ and reach their goal. I think based on what you wrote it kind of depends what you think people are here for .. i would argue whatever place you are born into you can achieve .. maybe even stand a better change if you are not fired into a materialistic, greed orientated money nitemare known as western society .. its a clouded place to begin even if you have a warm bed and food on the table.

The meaning "all men are created equal" must be considered in context. The constitution doesn't make mention of IQ, social status, race, religion, sexual preference or any other superficial attribute. All men are created equal in that they all possess the god given rights as defined in the Bill of Rights.

Its a philosophical and moral statement. As well as your observations of inequality. Because society or our fellow man decide to brand another as lacking in equality vs what they have, offer, or are is the moment you've failed to perceive the weight and spiritual cost on all of us that will result in defining others as meat.

The declaration of independence was just that, an airing of grievances of unfair practices with the pure statements of life liberty and privacy to follow ones own path to happiness at its core. Sentiments that place humanity equal with itself, not inherently evil or good or worth this or that among a class or creed of any nature or political brand.

Now whether or not society THEN or NOW (nice to see some habits are still around.) Holds men equal is irrelevant. It is a moral position within the frame of the document to contrast how inhumanly the colonies where being treated, some favorably and most unfavorably, as if they were property and those within it were property to be used and taxed and forced to do business by a monarch thousands of miles away.

Now as far as "getting" what you meant. Sure everyone is treated differently by everyone else. Society in some regions of this earth are utterly alien to others and thus in the grand ole USA its the same. Differences scare and others intimidate by merely existing differently by their own merits. But I would question the motive in raising the glaring truth we are not equal in every scientific, societal, or conjured attribute you can pull out of your hat in lieu to the fact everyone should have the expectation they should be treated equal as life itself.

Otherwise why protest? if you don't hold this "truth" this are you a slave?

Or are you trying to make yourself superior to others?

This is the crux of picking at the "worth" of life.

As far as this goes its a grade-school level conundrum, If the government that man forms to be just no longer is, it is the duty of man to shrug off that government. Thats the point of the document.. anything else is simply out of context and reserved for your own personal beliefs and whatever results they entail.

A more fruitful document in the area of morals and the equality of man would probably be the magna carta or perhaps even the ten commandments.

Equality is so misunderstood and a buzzword nowadays. Equality is certainly not desirable in outcomes, and not even in opportunities. The ideal is to have some basic level of opportunities available for all, not equal opportunities.

The only real equality there should be is equality before the law.

My Ex Mother in law died last year. The services were held in her church. Her daughters sat in the front with their children. My Ex and I sat in the back with ours. My Ex Father in laws family sat in the back on the other side. One of the daughters bawled as she gave her eulogy chanting how her mother loved everyone equally as if she had to convince the congregation before her mothers soul could assend. The fact is the woman did not love equally. We all accepted her and loved her for who she was not whether we were her favorite. We all knew how we ranked and didn't pretend to be more. No one treats each person as an equal. We divide people up and place them in catagories like we do anything else. Food is a good example. I can't just call it meat. I have to define the meat. I can't just call her my co worker because she may be a better co worker to me than other co workers.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
The phrase "All men are created Equal" only has merit in a very specific context.

We can clearly see that some people posses greater skills or attributes than is common, and some people have deficiencies in various areas.

Equality, by definition, does not apply to general human life, endeavours, capabilities, skills, or attributes....

Equality only applies to one single specific area.....

And that Area, is the Law.

So, the phrase "All men are created equal" is incomplete..... and should actually be:

"All men are equal in the eyes of the law"

Because not only is this the single specific context that makes this statement ethical, but it's also the only context that makes it true.

"justice is blind" is what is meant by "all men are created equal"

edit on 24-12-2012 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)

Very good summation of what it should be

But even then, it didn't include all men or all mankind. Slaves were men as well, but they didn't have equality. Women were mankind but didn't have equality either. I feel that leaving out a great portion of "humans" that they sold the idea short

Originally posted by stutteringp0et
The meaning "all men are created equal" must be considered in context. The constitution doesn't make mention of IQ, social status, race, religion, sexual preference or any other superficial attribute. All men are created equal in that they all possess the god given rights as defined in the Bill of Rights.

Not all men, only European landowners. Black men were definitely left out, they were slaves.

reply to post by L8RT8RZ


First, it is insulting you should call up Animal Farm in relation to the Founding Fathers. Animal Farm in fact was more about the Totalitarian NWO, which is the antithesis to the Founding Fathers and the Constitution. The evil ones have been trying to bring in the Totalitarian Communist One World Govt for over a hundred years now, in fact since Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto. They just change the names to fool people. Today, the new term is "Sustainable Development" from UN Agenda 21. It sounds so much happier than "Communism" or "The Communist Manifesto".
The term "All men are created equal" was indeed a statement which needed to be upheld, and it was with the succeeding "Emancipation Proclamation".
You see, it is the evil ones, the Nephilim, the Fallen Angels who enslave mankind in all ways possible. This is by no means a sign that there was or is something inherently wrong with the Constitution, as Progressives so love to suggest.
It was the Progressive Party which was the KKK, which wanted to keep slavery, which now wants us all enslaved to the Totalitarian regimes of Communism, Socialism, Globalism, and now Communitarianism of Agenda 21. Capitalism is reserved for the right wing as usual, but is always used and abused by the Left in it's desire to redistribute the wealth of our nation.
Now the Progressive Party wants to beat up the Republicans and say that it is the conservatives who are the evildoers, the ones who want to keep everyone down, they say it's the conservatives who have a war on women, when it is the Progressives who use women and women's rights as a method to beat up conservatives and to get votes. It is so vile as to make me want to throw up thinking about it. The Progressive Party now wants reparations from people who had nothing to do with slavery. The Progressives hate the Constitution and want it gone so they can push their Totalitarian agenda and take away the guns so the people cannot resist. It was done in other Totalitarian regimes, and in various countries.
It gets tiring hearing the same old rant against the Constitution. There is no point going into why the Founding Fathers did not tackle this sticky problem while they were yet fighting the British King. The Progressives already know this, but they shamelessy use it against our Liberty gained by the Constitution, and they continue to wrap us up more tightly in red tape and bureaucratic regulations to control us more and more.
The Progressive Party has been so divisive and playing the race card so much for the last 4 years. It is a shameful device. It is an illusion that they care about people at all.
All this business of equalizing things between the classes came out of Karl Marx and his Communist Manifesto, and the Socialists who commissioned him to write it. It is the program of Socialism to "equalize" everything in their desire to overthrow the evil Capitalist Bourgeoisie and give the Proletariat dominance in their Dictatorship of the Proletariat. All the social engineering and creating "social and economic equity" is geared toward the purpose of redistribution of income and tearing down the bourgeoisie merchants...in essence...anti Capitalist.
Agend 21 is riddled with such concepts but they wrap it all up in nice terms like "sustainable development", "Smart Growth", "Diversity", "Green", and "Consensus".

Sounds lovely and wonderful to take care of earth doesn't it? But the means to do it is to restrict every aspect of our lives.

In the end, what was once slavery of a segment of society will morph into the slavery of us all to the Sustainable Development designed to restrict what we eat, how we live, where we live, what we can do on our property, the way we use our land, water rights. Everything will be controlled by the Elite.
OP, If you want to face down evil, you are looking at the wrong face.
I am convinced that the statement the Founding Fathers made that "all men are created equal" was never meant to be used as a method to redistribute income, but as a apringboard from which to resist the tyranny of a King or a ruling power. This is also why we have the 2nd Amendment. The Progressives have shamelessly turned it into a war on Capitalism and free enterprise.

"All men are equal in the eyes of the law" is the way it is supposed to be; unfortunately that has not been or is the case even today.

Women and men are not equal; Period IMO.

Women are much better than men at certain things as are men better at others. Is one totally superior to the other...in certain things yes...

Yes there are women more like a man than many men and conversely some men more like women.

If you take a good man and a good woman who join their lives together you end up with a great team for life's challenges.

Gender is not what I am talking about as much as psyc or the way some are wired. Many gay couples live long happy productive lives together. As long as others leave them alone.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by L8RT8RZ

 

First, it is insulting you should call up Animal Farm in relation to the Founding Fathers. Animal Farm in fact was more about the Totalitarian NWO, which is the antithesis to the Founding Fathers and the Constitution. The evil ones have been trying to bring in the Totalitarian Communist One World Govt for over a hundred years now, in fact since Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto. They just change the names to fool people. Today, the new term is "Sustainable Development" from UN Agenda 21. It sounds so much happier than "Communism" or "The Communist Manifesto".
The term "All men are created equal" was indeed a statement which needed to be upheld, and it was with the succeeding "Emancipation Proclamation".
You see, it is the evil ones, the Nephilim, the Fallen Angels who enslave mankind in all ways possible. This is by no means a sign that there was or is something inherently wrong with the Constitution, as Progressives so love to suggest.
It was the Progressive Party which was the KKK, which wanted to keep slavery, which now wants us all enslaved to the Totalitarian regimes of Communism, Socialism, Globalism, and now Communitarianism of Agenda 21. Capitalism is reserved for the right wing as usual, but is always used and abused by the Left in it's desire to redistribute the wealth of our nation.
Now the Progressive Party wants to beat up the Republicans and say that it is the conservatives who are the evildoers, the ones who want to keep everyone down, they say it's the conservatives who have a war on women, when it is the Progressives who use women and women's rights as a method to beat up conservatives and to get votes. It is so vile as to make me want to throw up thinking about it. The Progressive Party now wants reparations from people who had nothing to do with slavery. The Progressives hate the Constitution and want it gone so they can push their Totalitarian agenda and take away the guns so the people cannot resist. It was done in other Totalitarian regimes, and in various countries.
It gets tiring hearing the same old rant against the Constitution. There is no point going into why the Founding Fathers did not tackle this sticky problem while they were yet fighting the British King. The Progressives already know this, but they shamelessy use it against our Liberty gained by the Constitution, and they continue to wrap us up more tightly in red tape and bureaucratic regulations to control us more and more.
The Progressive Party has been so divisive and playing the race card so much for the last 4 years. It is a shameful device. It is an illusion that they care about people at all.
All this business of equalizing things between the classes came out of Karl Marx and his Communist Manifesto, and the Socialists who commissioned him to write it. It is the program of Socialism to "equalize" everything in their desire to overthrow the evil Capitalist Bourgeoisie and give the Proletariat dominance in their Dictatorship of the Proletariat. All the social engineering and creating "social and economic equity" is geared toward the purpose of redistribution of income and tearing down the bourgeoisie merchants...in essence...anti Capitalist.
Agend 21 is riddled with such concepts but they wrap it all up in nice terms like "sustainable development", "Smart Growth", "Diversity", "Green", and "Consensus".

Sounds lovely and wonderful to take care of earth doesn't it? But the means to do it is to restrict every aspect of our lives.

In the end, what was once slavery of a segment of society will morph into the slavery of us all to the Sustainable Development designed to restrict what we eat, how we live, where we live, what we can do on our property, the way we use our land, water rights. Everything will be controlled by the Elite.
OP, If you want to face down evil, you are looking at the wrong face.
I am convinced that the statement the Founding Fathers made that "all men are created equal" was never meant to be used as a method to redistribute income, but as a apringboard from which to resist the tyranny of a King or a ruling power. This is also why we have the 2nd Amendment. The Progressives have shamelessly turned it into a war on Capitalism and free enterprise.

edit on 25-12-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

I just read your post! Very well written and thanks for sharing your thoughts......Although being a nuts an bolts type of guy I believe you have to look no farther than some two bit sociopath, control freak, wanna be dictator for most of the worlds ills...yes not very technical but makes things simple for me....

reply to post by JackyMenace

All are born with an equal quality of character

I would say no.... all men were created with the same Spirit-Spark which has found expression in varying modes throughout the lives of the individuals, and some expressions are the manifestations of karmic accountability.

I agree with the premise that when placed on its proper historical context, the declaration of independence was not necessarily a modern social or ethical manifesto, but merely a statement of revolt.

That said, I still personally believe that every human being is "created" equal (if one wishes to use that term,) but is born into very different circumstances and scenarios. I believe we should still strive to treat, respect, and care for everyone as equals, however. I believe that this should be among our broader humanitarian goals as a species and as individual societies. This is a guiding principle in my life.

But in strict terms of the original intent of the declaration, I agree. As George Carlin said, America is a great contradiction. A country of slave owners, who wanted to "be free." I agree it's quite laughable when put that way.

Peace.

Originally posted by 727Sky

"All men are equal in the eyes of the law" is the way it is supposed to be; unfortunately that has not been or is the case even today.

Women and men are not equal; Period IMO.

Women are much better than men at certain things as are men better at others. Is one totally superior to the other...in certain things yes...

Yes there are women more like a man than many men and conversely some men more like women.

If you take a good man and a good woman who join their lives together you end up with a great team for life's challenges.

Gender is not what I am talking about as much as psyc or the way some are wired. Many gay couples live long happy productive lives together. As long as others leave them alone.

I would disagree with this as I see male and female being the same. I look at it this way - we're all human, we all see things basically the same. I mean a tree is a tree, right?

You have to look at the individual. Everyone has particular talents.

In fact I signed on here to chew some guy who was bashing Feminism, but my thoughts work just as well here, if not better. And it's not a pick apart of this issue, oh no - it is *where it's coming from*.

We all need to be aware of something - male and female, gay and straight, everybody - there is only ONE reason for the Anti Feminist rhetoric going around - and that is to get you to BREED.

TPTB are pushing this because they *desperately* need bodies for their economic pyramid schemes. And cannon fodder. And to keep you enslaved and working for them (children are the ultimate debt load.)

Do not be fooled by what's behind this! And be sure to watch for other similar things. "They" start telling you that residents of Wisconsin really are the best at cheese, and should stick to making cheese - OK - there's a shortage of cheese.

Do not be fooled! They are trying to divide male and female into separate work spheres to get you to BREED. For them. ALL must be very careful because once you are encumbered with children - they gotcha.

This is a CLEAR example of trying to separate people and make them unequal - because they so desperately want more bodies! It's all about THEM it is not about YOU. Its to convince you to BREED - for THEM. That's it and that's all.

Consider what else we see - Anti Gay, Anti Abortion, even Anti Birth Control now! Why? These decrease the breeding. And that's why they're Anti Feminist too - they want you breeding, not working. They flat out *say so* now too! Low birth rates! Not enough people! They are so desperate they've shown their hand. So desperate that some even want to outlaw BC.

Be very careful with what you believe, there is an agenda behind it. And that goes for men, singles, gays, everyone. Because as soon as you're child encumbered - you are locked into their system.

In many ways TPTB WANT people to believe they're unequal. Pick anyone to compare, and what they say -

Blacks are lazy. Means they don't want them to get ahead.
Mexicans are hard working. Means they're all too willing to exploit these people.
Men are strong and tough. Means they want you to go to war or do back breaking work for them.
Women are "nurturers". Means they want you breeding like a rabbit.
Jews run the world. Masons run the world. Either are out to 'get you'. Nope. Both of these groups have something in common - which is that they know the truth about Christianity and TPTB do NOT want that getting out.
Conspiracy Theorists are nuts. Ad Hominem attack to try to discredit people who try to understand.
Intellectuals think too much, don't 'do'. Again, means stop thinking and just get to work - FOR US.
Work is *good for* children! Means - China style sweatshops, coming soon!

My point here is - be sure to try to think of what may be behind what they're telling you. All of it is Social Engineering - for their gain - not yours. Be very very careful on what you believe - or you may find yourself screwed, glued, and tattooed.

Remember also - anyone not locked down and working, or dependent on government handouts - is considered dangerous by them. They want you working, FOR THEM, dependent on THEM. NOT thinking or questioning.

reply to post by L8RT8RZ

On the unconditioned ground of all being, we all share a human experience from our own perspective and in that sense we are all equal, no better or no worse than, or of no greater or lessor value, that's what it means to be equal as a human being, as a fundamental, inalienable or intrinsic right endowed by our creator.

I have a developmentally disabled friend - do I think he has a lessor equality, how insulting the very idea of it.

I have to disagree, sorry.

reply to post by L8RT8RZ


I think the idea of being created equal is a reference to all men being equal before God. In God's eyes we are all the same, regardless of the situations in life that we were born into and experience, and all require his grace.

reply to post by L8RT8RZ


Individuals can never truly become equal to another individual. The only real equality and reasonable equity that can ever be had is within the law.