Who am I? **A Story of the Struggle for Spiritual Liberation**

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by schuyler

 

As one of his bulldogs you are grasping at straws, still trying to pull yourself out of that sticky morass you stepped in! Thanks for the laugh.

Are you mad? First of all, I'm not one of his bulldogs grasping at anything. Secondly, I never jumped down on my knee's yelling, "PLZ MASTER TELL ME MOAR!"

What I am saying is, that so many of you were ready to raise the bull# flag on this, that you jumped on the story of him just trolling people, without considering the other possibilities? I mean, I thought that was what skeptics were supposed to do; consider other possibilities?

What a tool.

You are one of the major OP Bulldogs on this thread, fighting to the last gasp against every skeptic who voiced an opinion not completely 100% for whatever OP said. Ideally, people who were in that mode could now take a step back and analyze just how completely they were fooled by OP's rhetoric. That's what skeptics were trying to do here, to point out that what OP said was not only not particularly insightful, but that it was manipulative.

All I see when I look back at your posts and that of several others is a bunch of name calling against people who were questioning what OP said. Anyone can look for themselves and see the veracity of what I am saying, back to his first thread.

And then what happened. OP confessed he was a college kid trying to manipulate you and see how many converts he could get. An outright, now-you-are-banned admission. And what is your answer to all this? He was forced to confess.

That, sir, is laughable in the extreme. Do you have any idea how silly that sounds? After a complete admission of guilt on the part of the OP you are still drinking the Kool Aid. You are still making excuses for him. You've been duped by a college kid barely out of his Mom's basement with a garden-variety sociological experiment. And the only thing you can do after this is do what you have done throughout this thread, and call people names.

Class act, bud.

reply to post by schuyler


Tl;dr

You realize I barely even participated in this thread at all right?

No, you didn't know that...

I would also like to point out that the only time I got involved, other than my opinion of the OP, was to tell the 'skeptics' careful how they word their arguments, or lest they will sound like hypocrites...

Troll harder next time. By the way, I love your ad hominem's while accusing me of name calling...You must feel so special..

Not only was your rebuttal completely devoid of facts, but logic as well...Give me a break.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I agree. But except for the personal histories of the OP, I've heard it all before. The philosophy was never under question for myself.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by schuyler

 

You realize I barely even participated in this thread at all right?

No, you didn't know that...

20 posts and counting, all by you. You want to call that "barely participating"? Ohhhhh K!

I would also like to point out that the only time I got involved, other than my opinion of the OP, was to tell the 'skeptics' careful how they word their arguments, or lest they will sound like hypocrites...

Really? Let's take a look, shall we?

I am sure my brethren and I in the Paranormal and Metaphysics sections, will welcome you with open arms. We will be seeing you.

To Apocryphon, Himself. Aww, that's so sweet. But you didn't buy off on his rhetoric. Oh, no, not you! I'm sure he felt all warm and cozy because of the group hug....and another convert!

I never see this card pulled when the skeptics come out of the woodwork to attack the OP. There are quite a lot of people on here who are very nasty and rude about voicing their opinions concerning the thread of an OP they don't agree with. But if you tell them to just leave, they say "Why, are you not happy with alternate opinions?" and I say to that; "Why, are you?"

So you DO tell them to just leave. One of my major points. All you want are the acolytes asking questions at the feet of the Master. These must be you and your bretheren in the paranormal and Metaphysics section welcoming him with open arms. Sweet.

Because someone doesn't operate out of the left-brain hemisphere, doesn't mean their opinions hold any less credence. You would do well to remember that.

Ahh, a lecture on left brain/right brain! Psych 101. Were you in Apocryphon's class?

Just so you know, a good portion of us consider your attitude to really suck. Now I'm not knocking any kind of intelligence that you may have, but as far as morals and actions go, you've got to a lot to learn man.

This to NorEaster, one of the more lucid posters on ATS. No ad hominem from you, no siree!!

I'm just going to say that nowhere in your rant was it even conducive or relative to my post. I'm merely pointing out the obvious. Skeptics aren't the only ones with valid opinions; so you should stop acting as such.

That. Was. All.

But no, you had to go on about all of that nonsense. I think you really missed the point dude.

Did you even read your previous post?

If you want to dig up and parade one of my threads around; how about actually finding one of the better ones, hm?

In other words, the one he dug up wasn't very good. I get it.

Are you mad? What a tool.

Uh huh. Time to find a new guru, bud, someone else to welcome with open arms. the other one done got hisself banned.

Oh I see the op got banned, to bad, was going to bother him with more questions I would not get any answers on. His threads are cool and all, very entertaining and even thought provoking, but mostly entertaining. And actually a lot of what he said on vibrations is pretty kind of spot on though its not that simple or easy and a lot of it was contradicting itself in many areas if you look, that and he came off like another one just looking to get a rush out of the whole thing.

But none of what he said was actually any new information on things, these sort of things have been around for ages and ages literally, even the whole new age thing is anything but new. And in fact this whole reality in many ways I would say seems to be a bizarre sort of school, we all are learning how this reality works and changing its vibration's every day in day out, all in the school of life. And there is nothing magical about it, just like there is nothing magical about learning how to tie your shoes, or in learning to ride a bike, but if your learning how to ride on one wheel and planing on jumping over pits, your bound to get a few bumps and scrapes along the way. And really that's all there is to it.

Oh well maybe some other year the next enlightened guru master ascended dude person, will finally answer that age old question. What is the meaning of cheese?

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Absolutely agree with you. The content was not really new at all, so the question in my mind is: Why did so many people ardently fall for this guy? Well, maybe it wasn't "many" as I did not count them up, but more than one person said the message "resonated" with them. so I'd like to explore why this happened and why ANYONE would fall for this in a little more depth than I did before.

First, he's an excellent writer. Rarely do we find someone who knows grammar and spelling, can use a semi-colon, and makes virtually no mistakes in long stretches. Most of us at least make a typo or two, but his were rare to non-existent. This is a good example of why such things are important, why presentation is important. Those who make constant mistakes in this regard are more easily dismissed. We can all say "it doesn't matter," but in point of fact, it does. Rhetoric trumps content.

Second, I suspect one of the reasons his story "resonated" is because it is not at all a new story (like you said.) It's old. The basic idea is that we survive bodily death. We can perform OBEs once we learn how. We may be or have "souls" that can reincarnate. Every New Age philosophy out there says more or less the same thing, from Seth to the Roscicrucians, from Edgar Cayce to whatever New Age Shaman you follow. It "resonates" because the story is familiar. We've heard it all before, even if we pretended to not pay attention. It soaked in anyway.

Third, his treatment of scientific subjects is lucid and understandable. It was in this subject that Apocryphon made the most mistakes, but science education being what it is, many people simply did not recognize them. A few people did, and their posts on these issues were often treated with scorn. But Apocryphon overall did a good job of explaining contemporary physics to laymen, which is "us," mostly. It was if he has read Brian Greene's popular treatments of quantum mechanics and spit them back out even better than Greene can do. It was a good job and helped set the stage for the more outlandish issues which were to come later.

Fourth, he did an excellent job of recruiting supporters. Witness the OP Bulldogs and how they treated dissent. Far from being a benign begging to not trash the OP, it was a fervent defense of anything Apocryphon wrote. You can go back and trace the whole thing from the beginning to see this, Note that Apocryphon himself stayed out of the fray with only a comment or two about the arguments in the thread, wishing them away, brothers. Excellent response.

Fifth, he set an excellent stage for his final push. Most people felt favorably disposed to him, so then was when he could push the envelope. The re-invention of Scientology is a case in point. I suspect most of us have at least a mildly unfavorable opinion of Scientology, so when Apocryphon told us they were mis-represented, once again, it made a certain sense. Throw in the CIA, everyone's favorite Bug Eyed Monster, and it's almost an automatic buy-in.

But here's where the overall story started getting weird. Why would the CIA care about who had OBEs? Think about it. Apocryphon doesn't have an exclusive here. LOTS of people have OBEs and the CIA didn't come after them. But by this time the Defense of Apocyphon was in full swing and things got lost in the heat. And it would have kept going that way had not Apocyphon made his confession.

And THAT'S where things get REALLY strange. He was by this time so entrenched that he had to have been FORCED to give a retraction. After all, who wants the CIA after them? Isn't it best to just say, "It wasn't me!" and run away? So even after Apocryphon has flown the coop, there are still his followers praying on the mountaintop. the whole thing is just classic and OUGHT to be an object lesson to all of us. It should instruct us in disinformation and also in jumping on bandwagons.

The same thing excatly happened with the Piltdown Man hoax. Most of the antropologists of the day did NOT buy off on it, but they were drowned out by the MSM rhetoric and buy in. We're running out of space so cannot expand on that.

Kudos to Apocryphon, truly. if he did anything REALLY wrong it was that it took him only three threads to blow the thing up. Given an undergraduate schedule, not bad. Surely he has ample information for a term paper on the subject that will earn him an "A". If he had had a little more time he could have milked it a bit longer. I think he will go far, so Apocryphon, good job. Just know there are people like LesMis and NorEaster who are going to keep you honest.

reply to post by schuyler

20 posts and counting, all by you. You want to call that "barely participating"? Ohhhhh K!

How many replies can each page hold? Now count how many pages there are...Yeah, that isn't even a good percentage. Not to mention I counted the number of pages I was on, 3.8-7, so barely 4 pages of 8.... And if you quote the rest of my words properly. You would know that other than one post addressed to the OP, I played mediator.

Really? Let's take a look, shall we? I am sure my brethren and I in the Paranormal and Metaphysics sections, will welcome you with open arms. We will be seeing you. To Apocryphon, Himself. Aww, that's so sweet. But you didn't buy off on his rhetoric. Oh, no, not you! I'm sure he felt all warm and cozy because of the group hug....and another convert!

Yes, let's take a look again. That was the first post of any involvement to this thread, hence my prior words about "OTHER THAN MY OPINION OF THE OP." Have you read anything that I have posted on these boards? Nothing the OP said to me was new. Try again, I didn't convert to #. I already knew. Or should I sent you a screencap of my extensive occult library? Didn't think so...Moving on from this failure of a point..

I never see this card pulled when the skeptics come out of the woodwork to attack the OP. There are quite a lot of people on here who are very nasty and rude about voicing their opinions concerning the thread of an OP they don't agree with. But if you tell them to just leave, they say "Why, are you not happy with alternate opinions?" and I say to that; "Why, are you?" So you DO tell them to just leave. One of my major points. All you want are the acolytes asking questions at the feet of the Master. These must be you and your bretheren in the paranormal and Metaphysics section welcoming him with open arms. Sweet.

You are intentionally being obtuse for your rebuttals aren't you? I never said ANYTHING about the skeptics having to leave or not be able to voice their opinions...If you would read them properly instead of taking them out of context, you would know I was saying that because of how nasty some members were being over this topic. It's okay to be a skeptic, and reserve your opinion. However, it is something entirely different to attempt and belittle or make someone else look less credible, because their opinions aren't the same. Nor is it okay, to act like your opinion is the only one that matters, while at the same time telling off the 'converts' with that same phrasing.

Ahh, a lecture on left brain/right brain! Psych 101. Were you in Apocryphon's class?

Uh no. The point was; just because someone doesn't require 'proof' for every single thing they believe, doesn't give you the right to say that their opinion is any less credible. You are being intentionally deceitful as well, aren't you? You've done a fantastic job of misconstruing my words. I must applaud you for that.

Just so you know, a good portion of us consider your attitude to really suck. Now I'm not knocking any kind of intelligence that you may have, but as far as morals and actions go, you've got to a lot to learn man. This to NorEaster, one of the more lucid posters on ATS. No ad hominem from you, no siree!!

And I suppose you just completely ignored all his little nasty remarks made in return to the 'bulldogs' and 'converts' right? By the way; I see what you did there.

Did you even read your previous post?

It had nothing to do with my opinions in the matter. Fact is, a lot of the skeptics were being hypocrites about the whole "Are my opinions not valid" card. I called you out on it. If you don't like it, you can deal with it. Facts are facts. Don't try and pull that little argument, after you just turned around and did the same thing to them, saying that their opinions don't matter, albeit if it was in a roundabout way.

Uh huh. Time to find a new guru, bud, someone else to welcome with open arms. the other one done got hisself banned.

Guru..Huh..And I uh, don't suppose it ever occurred to you that maybe some of us just wanted another mind that we could share similar information and interests with, huh? My last remark stands...What a tool. All you can do is throw a bunch of flowery BS at me that doesn't phase me. You were wrong, and you know it. I don't need this guy to tell me anything about Remote Viewing, Astral Projection, or any of that stuff. I study metaphysics and occult/esoteric on a daily basis, and have plenty of books written by verifiable people more proficient than himself.

So uh, do what you want man. I'm above this stupid petty arguing, because you want to have a sword measuring contest. Troll someone else please.

I find it quite pathetic that the believers still defend this.even when the poster claims it was a hoax.

You just can't fix stupid..

reply to post by kerazeesicko


What don't you guys get? I said nobody considered the 'POSSIBILITY' that he was forced to say something, or somebody could have hacked him; I swear the level of reading comprehension in this thread is zero. I never stated this as fact or my own belief. And if you read a few replies after that LesMisanthrope agreed with me that the circumstances of his confession was strange.

I have to agree with you Veritas. The manner of his confession is strange, and it can lead one to believe that he is being forced into a false confession.

Apparently nobody knows how to tell when somebody is stating something as a fact or belief, or as a what if, anymore.

reply to post by schuyler

I suspect most of us have at least a mildly unfavorable opinion of Scientology

Why not throw Freemasons on in there too, huh?

If he had had a little more time he could have milked it a bit longer. I think he will go far, so Apocryphon, good job. Just know there are people like LesMis and NorEaster who are going to keep you honest.

And you have the nerve to speak about jumping on bandwagons...

Second, I suspect one of the reasons his story "resonated" is because it is not at all a new story (like you said.) It's old. The basic idea is that we survive bodily death. We can perform OBEs once we learn how. We may be or have "souls" that can reincarnate. Every New Age philosophy out there says more or less the same thing, from Seth to the Roscicrucians, from Edgar Cayce to whatever New Age Shaman you follow. It "resonates" because the story is familiar. We've heard it all before, even if we pretended to not pay attention. It soaked in anyway.

So is there any other reason that occurs to you other than they are all making it up? By the way, Rosicrucian's aren't New Age. Sorry to bust your bubble.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

I agree. But except for the personal histories of the OP, I've heard it all before. The philosophy was never under question for myself.

Perhaps this will put it into perspective for Schuyler regarding my opinion of the OP. Thanks for putting it so well.

Lol I was sort of right about OP. I knew he was a fraud but not that it was deliberately so. And when the mods start closing the other threads, they don't even put up the actual reasons for why they close that original thread.

Its really odd though, but yesterday I was thinking of how I was going do a social experiment akin to this as well.

Originally posted by schuyler
reply to post by galadofwarthethird

 

First, he's an excellent writer. Rarely do we find someone who knows grammar and spelling, can use a semi-colon, and makes virtually no mistakes in long stretches. Most of us at least make a typo or two, but his were rare to non-existent. This is a good example of why such things are important, why presentation is important. Those who make constant mistakes in this regard are more easily dismissed. We can all say "it doesn't matter," but in point of fact, it does. Rhetoric trumps content.

Too true. I didn't buy what he was selling, but they way he worded it compelled me to comment on the fact it stood out to me as a great piece of writing. Rarely do you get to see non-published writing of that caliber. I also think this bright young individual will go far, and hopefully he goes far in the right direction.

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE

Originally posted by Killuminati2
Now how is it that a religious philosophy that teaches that Satan is God and that fundamental Christians are the ones who are actually deceived is being believed by so many? Ill tell you how, because most of the people involved in the New Age movement, have a habit of believing any feel good philosophy that is thrown at them. The bible is clear concerning sin and that there is only one path to salvation. The Messiah even warned about that many would come in his name and deceive many. Now I ask you to really consider what I am saying because it seems obvious to me that this new religious philosophy, that is trying to usher in a "New World Order" that believes Satan is God and is waiting for the "One whom all nations await" sounds like a counterfeit religious movement looking to deceive Christians into worshiping what the scriptures calls the AntiChrist.

Either stop quoting the bible to fit your perverted beliefs are quote them all including this one.

"This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God," 1 John 4:2

"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist." 2 John 1:7

Matthew 24:3-5 "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."

Is this not what New Age philosophies teach that man is God? That there is no sin only Karma and that Christ didnt die for our sins but instead came to teach us that we were all Christs? Perhaps you should read the bible more and spend less time listening to New Age Doctrines that pervert scripture.

2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,"

In case you missed the OP's views on the bible and Jesus:

Originally posted by Apocryphon
Jesus was an enlightened, spiritually free being who had many truths to reveal during his time. It is unfortunate that nearly all his true original words and teachings have been lost. The only gospel among the four that is even based on a real existing gospel is that of John, and even that has been heavily edited and redacted.

The gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, which are all essentially derived from the same work, are frauds not written by the authors to which they are attributed. We know they are frauds because the bloodline in Matthew contradicts the one given in Luke; the tomb story among other stories has contradictory details, and the overall tone is very different from that of John. If you read John, you'll notice it has a much more esoteric, spiritual feeling to it. There are also a number of other gospels and scriptures that had been suppressed during the early days of Christianity and have barely survived to this day. The Nag Hamaddi library is a collection of some of these dissenting scriptures that are worth checking out. All religious writings of any kind, however, should be taken with a heavy grain of salt.

The Roman Empire saw early Christianity as a threat, but also as a potentially useful tool. They needed to mold it into what they wanted it to be, however, and such was the basis for the creation of bogus gospels and councils that restricted what scriptures and information would be included in the canon of scripture.

Interesting fun fact: The gospel of John doesn't include any reference to Hell whatsoever. The word does not appear once in the book. Neither do any of the epistles of Paul contain this word. Hell is only mentioned in the synoptic (Matthew, Mark, Luke) gospels which very well supports the position that the idea of Hell was created later by the Roman Catholic church as a tool for fear and repression.

So in short, Jesus himself was not a tool for spiritual repression; but the religion that was created in his name has been used heavily as a tool for spiritual repression.

Sad, but true, most of the Bible and other holy books are false. Why? Well, just use logic. The only Universal truths are Love and that we are all One, yet the Bible and other Holy books promote division and fear. Simple. Don't overthink it.

Peace and Love to All

edit on 25-12-2012 by PlanetXisHERE because: addition

Star for most wise and true post within this thread thus far

Originally posted by old_god
reply to post by Apocryphon

 

You miss one very important aspect...the heart. The soul connects to the heart and it's our emotions that drive us, filtered through the brain which has the main purpose of filtering information and processing new data.

Good read.

Okay new Star - for new most wise post in this threaad

Originally posted by forgetmenot
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

You might want to see this:

Originally posted by Apocryphon
Fellow members of ATS, I must now come clean and confess that everything I've posted in my previous threads is complete BS that I made up for entertainment, and as an experiment to see how much of a following I could get. My method was to present myself as an inspiring leader with strong oratory skills, spiritual promises, and first-hand knowledge of certain conspiracies.

In reality I am just a kid who is on winter break from school, was bored and thought it would be fun to see how much of a cult-like following I could get if I presented myself a certain way.

I'm not on the run from the government, I've never been a research subject at SRI, I've never met Ingo Swann or Hal Pufhoff, and I've never been able to induce an OBE (although I do believe in them). The historical information I presented about Scientology and the CIA is all true, however I don't possess any first-hand experience with these events, I only presented what can already be researched on the internet. The information I presented about interlaced planes of existence via different frequency vibrations is just a theory I dreamed up, thinking it *could* be how the universe works, but I don't have any special way of knowing that such an idea is truth.

It was a fun experiment while it lasted and to some extent it worked, but I no longer have the time to keep it up, so I decided it would be best to present the actual truth.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy! This is why questioning what people say is important, instead of becoming a part of their cult by blindly following, listening, accepting, etc.

edit on 27-12-2012 by forgetmenot because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-12-2012 by forgetmenot because: (no reason given)

Okay its time to respond to this thread - Firstly I want the above person Ive quoted and the other skeptical trolls to understand the OP did NOT make this up, run off .. only one who would wish this to please their satisifaction of minunderstanding the spiritual knowledge at hand would firmly believe what has been quoted here.

Meaning Apocryphon did not make this up, did not come off winter break, and did not troll AtS. There is more the higher admins know about this particular former member, then the rest of us are allowed to know. The thing about tthis age of humanity and this tool called the internet is this - eeverything is controlled, monitored, and filtered.
Even the creators of AtS are on a short-cyber leash if I may; removing this post would be ironic in that case.

If one talks about highly sensitive topics such as extraterrestrials, spiritual knowledge, or even free energy with total validity - the individual will be made a cyber puppet, made look as a liar, and everything stated by that person will become destructed information by those we call "disinfos", or the ones monitoring the internet ie; CIA.

Its much easier to control a population or community when EVERYONE beleives and thinks the same way; this way those in control have no "loose" strings" to deal with... but once in a while, these strings show up, say or do to much and are made rid of.

Are you catching my drift people?

For all its worth, putting THIS much time and effort into this thread, reading pages of responses like I have no life... much information this individual has presented over the days is true in the spiritual sense. I and many who have responded have experienced much things; I for one understand this nature more clearly in a conscious way.

So for those who seek true knowledge and not the hokie-pokie nonsense some are destructively inserting into the cyber world; use your heart (not your thoughts) to determine what is true and what is not.

My intuition (soul/heart) tells me that this member is not a child off winter break, and his ban from this site was more useful to those adminstrating it then the members who were involved and "entertained" by his threads..

But what is done and said is done and said; all any individual can do including myself is take what we 'felt' (intuitive soul) was true - that which resonated, and continue our valuable search for spiritual growth and development.

To put the cherry on the OP's cake; this reality is much more then solid, liquid and gas. If you take into consideration the KNOWN light spectrum - what we can and can NOT see/perceive - you can consider that there are realities that exist outside our visible light spectrum.
Our conscious minds and hearts might be the key to unlock the inner-treasure chest, the parts of our soul that houses all the knowledge we need.

Fine thread... take care

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
Meaning Apocryphon did not make this up, did not come off winter break, and did not troll AtS. There is more the higher admins know about this particular former member, then the rest of us are allowed to know. The thing about tthis age of humanity and this tool called the internet is this - eeverything is controlled, monitored, and filtered.
Even the creators of AtS are on a short-cyber leash if I may; removing this post would be ironic in that case.

I was wondering how you came to these outlandish conclusions. Then I saw this

So for those who seek true knowledge and not the hokie-pokie nonsense some are destructively inserting into the cyber world; use your heart (not your thoughts) to determine what is true and what is not.

My intuition (soul/heart) tells me that this member is not a child off winter break, and his ban from this site was more useful to those adminstrating it then the members who were involved and "entertained" by his threads.

Speculation and some sort of aversion to thought. I'll just stick to using my brain its "hokie-pokie" thoughts, thank you very much.

reply to post by forgetmenot


You believe following your heart - your inner, spiritual compass - is speculation?

Keep doing flips on your piano and follow your hokie-pokie nonsense.. your doing good son

reply to post by LoveisanArt


If the spiritual aspect of this thread resonated with you, just say that. No need to talk down the ones who doubted his validity, because they are right, making you wrong. What the OP said in regards to spirituality is nothing new, in fact it is really old and stale, and nothing worth re-hashing.

If your emotions are all that guide you, just admit that you don't like what your reason tells you, instead of denouncing those who prefer to not be deceived. Honesty, it seems, is very infrequent among those who wish things to be true but end up not being the way they hoped.

reply to post by LoveisanArt


begging your pardon, little miss guru, but there are plenty of non hokey-pokey folks on ATS that have done a HELL OF A LOT better job than this hoaxer. hard thinkers with compelling ideas and compelling evidence and are every bit as "sensitive" (to truthiness) as you consider yourself to be.

he was called out on it very early in his FIRST of the three threads.

he was a smooth talker...that's for sure.