2012+ The End Is Very Near - The God(s) Are Returning

Originally posted by HumAnnunaki

The two witnesses are dead....ha ha ha.

Another crackpot. They haven't been yet.

The Witnesses are here..no they are not dead -
and they have been here a very long time!

In the manner of 2012;
the OP has some correct info..but very little IMO.

The Mayan date of December 21st 2012 is eight days away from 2013.

The oldest recognized religion - Judaism - has their calendar restarting
on December 23rd 2019...which is essentialy 2020.

Between these two dates are seven years..or the seven years of tribulation.
To be even more specific -
Their are seven days of creation..One day in the life of God is likened to a year
in the life of man ( as written in the Buy~Bull)
These seven days of God's creation is actually seven years to us.

Over the next seven years..this will escalate and we will then understand the meaning.

The number 144000 in the Buy~Bull is significant because it tells us of the remaining
population after the tribulation of God's seven days of creation.

The number is actually like the rest of the great numbers in the Buy~Bull -
it is missing the decimal point.
It should actually read - 14.4 percent.

What is the percent of 14.4 from 7 billion..? That is the survival rate.

Mankind will have pockets of civilization left spread around the globe,
as it was before.

That 14.4 percent will have much tribulations to bare and it will take an assumption
of 1000 years before worldwide travel will be possible therefore we will not be able to
wage outright war with each other on the face of this planet and I suspect that is what
the Buy~Bull means by "..walking a 1000 years of peace with Jesus."

For the record..God's Two Witnesses ARE NOT humans..nor are they Alien creatures.

I'm a newbie here and I for some reason (rules of engagement) I am not allowed
to make a thread until I post to atleast 20 comments of others threads..
as I will eventually be able to create my own post clarifying the Buy~Bull misconceptions.

My friend focus on the context surrounding the number 144,000 in the Bible and in Maya legends and culture, and think of John as an overwhelmed old man seeing unbelievable things. The accuracy of decimal points is beyond his abilities, but whole numbers with tangible context is more in his abilities.

Originally posted by iterationzero
reply to post by CantSay

 

Believe me or not, several years ago I read the book of Revelations for the first time and understood it completely.

Did you read it in the original Koine Greek or did you read a translation?

The proof is very controversial, so some parts I will not mention.

If you have evidence to back your claims, it seems somewhat unscientific of you to not report it.

The two converged on the number 144,000 = 1 x B'ak'tun in Mayan long count.

Seven is far more central to Revelations than the 12,000 members of each of the 12 tribes that you connect to the Mayan calendar. Can you clearly explain why you're drawing a parallel between those who were given seals as servants of God and the number of days in a bak'tun?

The first part of Revelations is an account of mans history on this planet marked in writing by large events and important people, the 4 horsemen (rulers).

The first part of Revelations is the communication of the revelation to John of Patmos followed by letters to the seven churches. Does this fit into your interpretation of Revelations somehow or are you just ignoring the first three chapters of the book?

Maybe you should expand upon your post a bit and provide some explicit notation of what events you think each of the verses of Revelations "literally" correspond to?

I read the several versions. I was able to get my hands on a very old english translation based on the Greek version.

The evidence I have will sway very few given the political climate and only cause problems for me. Some of it is very controversial. Some would be objective, but as I can see few would.

reply to post by CantSay


The evidence won't cause you any problems if very few will be swayed by it.

Originally posted by blackcube

Originally posted by CantSay
Believe me or not, several years ago I read the book of Revelations for the first time and understood it completely. All I'm saying about myself is that I'm a scientist and absolutely need proof to validate what I thought I understood.

I have issue with your statement because it will lead to one of two things:

1. You used the scientific method to prove your theory
OR
2. You using the fallacy: "argument from authority"

Which one is your case?

My point was critical through was applied, considering the material being analyzed. The validation came when the story of Revelations began to correlate to human history. Given the number of visual criteria matching vs. historical date, it was quantifiable and probability was applied. The result was that Revelations was the history of man; the fantastic parts where of the very distant past and far future events as seen by an ancient old man. The application of angel to alien, heaven to space was to make things more plausible in regard to the visuals. Fantastic creatures become fantastic machines and so forth.

I may still share my writings on this online. I haven't yet decided.

Originally posted by forgetmenot
reply to post by CantSay

 

The evidence won't cause you any problems if very few will be swayed by it.

Depends what it is.

Everything that is in the Bible actually is written to come to pass within the time of the original writers. Xtianity is a milleniarist religion so they all thought that Christ was going to return in their lifetime i.e. it is all very overdue!

Originally posted by fleabit
For a supposed scientist, your theory is riddled with supposition, guesswork and broad leaps of logic. You actually embrace that twaddle as fact based on your "research?"

Either provide some definitive, factual data, or give it a rest. You just like the rest, are just spouting nonsense - you've not provided anything resembling actual proof. If you have actual PROOF that an the bible speaks about an "ancient, super advanced (is that a scientific term btw?) and evolved alien race," by all means, present it.

I don't think you can provide actual proof of ANY part of your ridiculous theory, let alone the entire thing. Also just for the record, I'm equally amused with your comment that you've "confirmed" a bit of data with "90% satisfaction." What exactly is your field of study again? Oh.. that's right.. you can't tell us because if you reveal this information, political forces will instantly be able nail down who you are.

I knew the ridiculous doomsayers would never go away. I just hoped we'd get at least a break through the holiday, since the whole 2012 thing was such a flop. I guess not. Can't have it all I suppose.

My field of research is in the non-linear sciences, specifically non-linear dynamics focusing on prediction.

To answer the rest of your post, read the rest of mine.

Originally posted by symbolon
There is a lot of talk regarding satan (and his minions..) in this thread. There is however no such entity. No such entity exists in spirit as far as I am aware of.

A psychopathic human of limited ability is evil as he possess no empathy. It is not a far stretch for an actual superior being to also have no empathy, as typical human has for an ant.

Originally posted by CantSay

Originally posted by forgetmenot
reply to post by CantSay

 

The evidence won't cause you any problems if very few will be swayed by it.

Depends what it is.

Not really, if it won't sway anyone to change how they think then it couldn't possibly be a threat to anyone. If no one is threatened by it then no one will come seeking recompense from the person who brought it into light.

You might as well come forward with it.

Originally posted by HumAnnunaki

The two witnesses are dead....ha ha ha.

Another crackpot. They haven't been yet.

The Witnesses are here..no they are not dead -
and they have been here a very long time!

In the manner of 2012;
the OP has some correct info..but very little IMO.

The Mayan date of December 21st 2012 is eight days away from 2013.

The oldest recognized religion - Judaism - has their calendar restarting
on December 23rd 2019...which is essentialy 2020.

Between these two dates are seven years..or the seven years of tribulation.
To be even more specific -
Their are seven days of creation..One day in the life of God is likened to a year
in the life of man ( as written in the Buy~Bull)
These seven days of God's creation is actually seven years to us.

Over the next seven years..this will escalate and we will then understand the meaning.

The number 144000 in the Buy~Bull is significant because it tells us of the remaining
population after the tribulation of God's seven days of creation.

The number is actually like the rest of the great numbers in the Buy~Bull -
it is missing the decimal point.
It should actually read - 14.4 percent.

What is the percent of 14.4 from 7 billion..? That is the survival rate.

Mankind will have pockets of civilization left spread around the globe,
as it was before.

That 14.4 percent will have much tribulations to bare and it will take an assumption
of 1000 years before worldwide travel will be possible therefore we will not be able to
wage outright war with each other on the face of this planet and I suspect that is what
the Buy~Bull means by "..walking a 1000 years of peace with Jesus."

For the record..God's Two Witnesses ARE NOT humans..nor are they Alien creatures.

I'm a newbie here and I for some reason (rules of engagement) I am not allowed
to make a thread until I post to atleast 20 comments of others threads..
as I will eventually be able to create my own post clarifying the Buy~Bull misconceptions.

Then what does it mean that "death will be no more?

@ the OP -

My freind, you claim to be a scientist and yet you throw out the baby with the bathwater.

First and foremost, Revelations and Genesis is the true Bible - and everything in between
is to lend credence to those two stories.
Drop the names and persona from the Bible and you are left with an abundance of
astronomical formulae..and a tale of Catastrophe's. (ie. Noah and Lot)
The main importance is explaing the signs of catastrophe and what to look for in advance.
What most seem to overlook is that the TRUE Bible (Genesis and Revelations) is a previous
civilizations Survival handbook.

Take what you have just learned and cross reference it with ancient megaliths and historical
creation accounts strewn across our great planet, adding the fact that ALL ancient monuments
are built using a Metric~Pi and the numbers will make sense..in fact they will jump out at you.

I learned this from studying the Maya whom by the way did not design their calendar but were
mere caretakers of whom it was bestowed upon by the Olmecs/Toltecs -
and was likely bestowed to them by someone else!?!

Do understand that the Bible is cleverly written in code and when subjugated with actual historical findings,
the understanding becomes as clear as being "given eyes for which to see."

Here is an example of what I mean regarding the metric decimal system in the Bible
Lets take Methuselah for an example for after all, he IS the oldest living human in accordance to the Bible.

Methuselah lived to be 969 years begetting a son at the age of 187.

We have fossilized remains of humans dating back essentially 280,000 years
and NONE through dental DNA are believed to have lived a life much past their 60's..
..and Mr.Scientist, that is scientific evidence.

It would be easy for someone from five thousand years ago examining archaic records
and not understanding a dot placed in a numerical sequence to simply dismiss
the decimal point.

Therefore Methuselah's age of 969 more than likely actually was represented as 96.9 -
the ancients misunderstanding read it as 969 - whereas today we would read it as age 97.

Methuselah begat a son at the age 187..or as I would read it - 18.7; or again - as it would
be read today as age 19.

I hope this gives you a clearer explanation of the numerical accertation.

@ Char~Lee;
"...Then what does it mean - "That death will be no more"..."

As I mentioned, the Bible is alligorical in that it has truth deeply buried
within it's psuedynomical story figures.

I have no belief in what the Bible sells and that is why I refer to it as the Buy~Bull,
for the truth is conveneintly hidden from the masses on purpose.

Do really believe that "we can live forever" when the 7 billion overpopulation of
our precious mother Earth is destroying her at such a crippling rate..?

Please understand that my non belief of Biblical entities is in no way made
as a threat to anyone's Religious belief system.

Originally posted by CantSay

Originally posted by blackcube

Originally posted by CantSay
Believe me or not, several years ago I read the book of Revelations for the first time and understood it completely. All I'm saying about myself is that I'm a scientist and absolutely need proof to validate what I thought I understood.

I have issue with your statement because it will lead to one of two things:

1. You used the scientific method to prove your theory
OR
2. You using the fallacy: "argument from authority"

Which one is your case?

My point was critical through was applied, considering the material being analyzed. The validation came when the story of Revelations began to correlate to human history. Given the number of visual criteria matching vs. historical date, it was quantifiable and probability was applied. The result was that Revelations was the history of man; the fantastic parts where of the very distant past and far future events as seen by an ancient old man. The application of angel to alien, heaven to space was to make things more plausible in regard to the visuals. Fantastic creatures become fantastic machines and so forth.

I may still share my writings on this online. I haven't yet decided.

You may as well lay the whole thing out here now that you have spoken about it. What's the point of this if you are to just leave people hanging. Go through it verse by verse, explaining your interpretation and how you came to that realization. You'll find that if it makes sense that people will notice.

Just ignore the naysayers, they have nothing better to do and won't wait for you to finish before they attack what you write.

reply to post by Tiger5



This is a case of when people who know about .00001% of the Bible start making stuff up. See below:

www.learnthebible.org...


What is Matthew 16:28
talking about? Does it contradict itself?


Matthew 16:28
states, "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Parallel passages are found in Mark 9:1
and Luke 9:27
. The key is found in what immediately follows each of these verses. Jesus calls Peter, James, and John, takes them up to a high mountain and is transfigured before them while Moses and Elijah come down to discuss His coming death. Consider the things that point to this being the event Jesus referred to in Matthew 16:28
.
1. Jesus "was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light" (Matthew 17:2
). This matches the glorified appearance of Christ in Revelation 1:13-18
where "his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength" (Revelation 1:16
).
2. Of Moses and Elijah, the Bible says that they "appeared in glory" (Luke 9:31
). They did not just appear in a natural way but "in glory." Colossians 3:4
states, "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." This points directly to the coming of Christ in glory (Matthew 24:30
).
3. When the disciples awoke, they looked at Christ and "saw his glory" (Luke 9:32
). This is a very powerful statement. They saw the glorified Christ. They saw Him as King of Kings.
4. A cloud overshadowed them and the Father said, "This is my beloved Son: hear him" (Luke 9:34-35
). This too points to the presence and glory of God in fullness and power.
5. Jesus told them not to tell of the vision until He had risen from the dead (Matthew 17:9
). Ths vision was not for the time that Jesus walked on the earth before His crucifixion. It was a glimpse of His coming kingdom.

Peter, James, and John received a vision of the future kingdom and glory of Christ. They saw Him coming in His kingdom. It was to this event that Peter referred when he said, "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount." (2 Peter 1:16-18
). These three men were eyewitnesses of the majesty of "the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." What a glorious opportunity they had! What a glorious testimony they give!

David Reagan
.




Jesus himself said that only the Father knew when he would return. Never claimed a time at all.

Also, the allegorical theory concerning the Bible has been debunked and debunked. Simply saying it doesn't make it true. The Jewish people are a real people, have been for thousands of years. All of the settings and places in the Bible existed. There are non Christian sources which confirm the existence of Jesus and his prophets. The Bible is not an allegory based on other things. Read The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel if you get the chance, an atheist lawyer who had some of the same ideas and set out to once and for all debumk the myth of the Bible. He verified everything so thoroughly that he converted to Christ.

The Bible pretty much foretells what is happening now perfectly. The evidence is there. You can say that people of every generation thought they were in the end times, yada yada. For the first time in history the prophecies made in Revelation thousands of years ago can be understoood.

The funny part about non believers/ atheists/ etc, to me....if I said, hey everyone, I have this amazing book written by an alien being named Gozark from thousands of years ago! It holds ultimate wisdom about creation and it has prophecies that are coming true right now! This galactic alien being is going to make his return to earth soon and purge evil! Look, this chapter accurately foretells the order in which the world's empires will rise and fall, it tells human beings their purpose, and it explains the meaning of everything. Look, it says Israel will become a nation again after thousands of years and its neighbors, including Russia and Iran will try and destroy it!

Wow! This alien Gozark really knew what was up!

The sci fi heads and humanist would say, man, this alien really is all knowing, he must have created us, there is no doubt.

But the minute you say that there is actually a creator named God who did the exact same thing....no, no, that's all coincidence and fairytales, there is just energy moving around in the world and chance created us, or, uh, something

reply to post by karen61560


Although i'm on the fence about 100% belief in the literal understanding of the Bible.

I think you need to watch your words. Some could get offended. Holy books aren't to be laughed at.

This person was merely pointing out his beliefs. It's not a other 2012. An ancient civilization to an ATS poster is a big leap to make when saying "here we go again"

reply to post by BSFC123


Lee Strobel?
Watched a youtube video on him, he is very biased towards getting his info from the pro-Christian side of the so called 13 people he consulted.
I only watched one video, but that was enough and all I care to research this religious quack.

In my opinion he was never an atheist, atheists don't consult Christians on biblical truth, they just don't.
I suspect he held no opinion either side but leaned heavely more so to the belief side of the arguement before he 'left' atheism. A trick played on non-believers to try and convert them.

Check out the cat!

reply to post by BSFC123


Yea the old testament is history of sorts of the Jews mixed in with so called miracles and a made up beginning. You can look at Tom Harpur's The Pagan Christ. Tom is a theologian and priest. Or read The Jesus Mysteries. Or the two babylons written by a priest,christianity is just pagan.The Jesus story is just a retelling of a far older tale.

Non believers and athiests would demand evidents of this alien Gozark. You gave a bad example here and actually pictured someone like yourself. Isreal becoming a nation again after thousands of years is a Jew and Christian view. Isreal had its chance and it ended in 70AD. The book of revelation is up to interpretation and has many attempts by many people through out the years including the rest of the text of the bible. For the OP to claim he read revelation for the first time and understood it is completely BS. It sounds like someone of the like of David Koresh would say.

Originally posted by celticdog
For the OP to claim he read revelation for the first time and understood it is completely BS.

I've had recurring thoughts of that very same thought.
I have read revelations many times. the first time it's complete nonsense, then after a while, some of it starts to...well you can interpret it a bit better.
And by a stretch you can connect small parts of it to current events, wether that is coincidence or not, who knows.

Harpur's book is merely a reiteration of "pagan copycat" theories, and serves as an example of material you'll be able to avoid once you use the ideas I offer on using sources critically.

The bibliography contains many unreliable sources: Freke and Gandy, Acharya S, Tim Leedom, T. W. Doane, Earl Doherty, Helen Ellerbe, Kersey Graves, John Shelby Spong, Godfrey Higgins, Gerald Massey, Alvin Boyd Kuhn. These last three (in reverse order) are Harpur's most favored sources; throughout Harpur expresses bewilderment that these three "scholars" (the word he applies liberally to just about anyone, regardless of credentials), especially Kuhn, have been so vastly ignored.

The idea that they have been ignored because they are not competent scholars does not occur to Harpur.

Some critical work backing this up was done for us by W. Ward Gasque, a Canadian Biblical scholar, who reports that he emailed 20 Egyptologists to get their view of these last three writers. Of the 10 who responded to Gasque, only one had ever heard of any of them. I think it worth reporting much of what Gasque reports, in full:

Harpur refers to Kuhn, Massey and Higgins as 'Egyptologists'; but he does not quote any contemporary Egyptologist or recognized academic authority on world religions, nor does he appeal to any of the standard reference books, such as the magisterial three volume Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt (2001) or any primary sources.

He is especially dependent on Kuhn, whom he describes as "one of the single greatest geniuses of the 20th century" -- [one who] "towers above all others of recent memory in intellect and his understanding of the world's religions." Further, "Kuhn has more to offer the Church than all the scholars of the Jesus Seminar together. More than John Spong, C. S. Lewis, Joseph Campbell or Matthew Fox." Harpur declares himself "stunned at the silence with which [Kuhn's] writings have been greeted by scholars."

As it turns out, Kuhn was a high school language teacher who earned a PhD from Columbia University by writing a dissertation on Theosophy; his only other link with an institution of higher learning was a short stint as secretary to the president of a small college. Though he was a prodigious author, most of his works were self-published.

I emailed 20 leading international Egyptologists, regarding the contributions made to the field by Kuhn, Higgins and Massey. I also asked their opinion of the following claims by Kuhn (and hence Harpur):

* That the name of Jesus was derived from the Egyptian Iusa, which means "the coming divine Son who heals or saves."

* That the god Horus is "an Egyptian Christos, or Christ . . . He and his mother, Isis, were the forerunners of the Christian Madonna and Child, and together they constituted a leading image in Egyptian religion for millennia prior to the Gospels."

* That Horus also "had a virgin birth, and that in one of his roles, he was 'a fisher of men with 12 followers.'"

* That "the letters KRST appear on Egyptian mummy coffins many centuries BCE, and . . . this word, when the vowels are filled in . . . is really Karast or Krist, signifying Christ."

* That the doctrine of the incarnation "is in fact the oldest, most universal mythos known to religion. It was current in the Osirian religion in Egypt at least 4,000 years BCE."

Only one of the 10 experts who responded to my questions had ever heard of Kuhn, Higgins or Massey! Professor Kenneth A. Kitchen of the University of Liverpool pointed out that not one of these men is mentioned in M.L. Bierbrier's Who Was Who in Egyptology (3rd ed, 1995); nor are any of their works listed in Ida B. Pratt's very extensive bibliography on Ancient Egypt (1925/1942).

Since he died in 1834, Kitchen noted, "nothing by Higgins could be of any value whatsoever, because decipherment of the Egyptian hieroglyphs was still being finalized, very few texts were translated, and certainly not the vast mass of first-hand religious data."

Another scholar responded: "Egyptology has the unenviable distinction of being one of those disciplines that almost anyone can lay claim to, and the unfortunate distinction of being probably the one most beleaguered by false prophets." He dismissed Kuhn's work as "fringe nonsense."

These scholars were unanimous in dismissing the suggested etymologies for 'Jesus' and 'Christ.'

Peter F. Dorman of the University of Chicago commented: "It is often tempting to suggest simplistic etymologies between Egyptian and Greek (or other languages), but similar sequences of consonants and/or vowels are insufficient to demonstrate any convincing connection."

Debunked many times, the myth of a pagan Christ has been around for a long time. Any serious historian admits the existence of Jesus and the Apostles. Again, being an atheist and saying it is true, does not make it true. You can argue that he was not the son of God. How do you explain Daniel's prophecies, again? Coincidence?

reply to post by BSFC123


Dawkins doesnt deny his existence but his divinity. Daniels prohecies well the the gospels were written 40 or so years after. Plenty of time to fudge a story tying in the old testament prohesy about a messiah. How are those stories debunked they are so similar it is not funny.Mithra ,Dionysus, Krishna. From the Sumerians on. Just Jesus is held as literal for some reason.