Fact: gun confiscations do not reduce crime.

Check out Australia. Violent crime dropped when they banned guns in the way they did.

What you are talking about is shootings from people who shouldn't own guns in the first place as proven by the violence !!!

Your talking through a hole in your head, was it from a gunshot wound?

DEY TOOK RRRR GRRRRNNNNS!

As a non american, I'm quite surprised just how disillusioned Americans seem to be surrounding gun violence. I understand US citizens have the right to bear arms, though realistically that law was written (if im correct) in 1791, at a time when it took an hour to fire a hundred rounds and the world was much less globalized.

I constantly read that a primary reason for the law is to protect against threats including your own government, yet that is simply a nation living in fear its quite laughable, not to mention that pro gun advocates seem to believe that there somehow a match against a power like the US military (if your government if ever did wish to attack you all, which i believe is highly unlikely)!

Seriously, here are some basic statistics for comparison:
United States (2009) - 9,146 Homicides by firearm.
United Kingdom (2009) - 18 homicides by firearm.
Australia (2009) - 30 Homicides by Firearm.

Prior to Australia implementing a Gun Buy Back Scheme, and making most firearms illegal, our homicide rate by firearm was approx. 100 deaths per year, every year since the gun ban has been in effect we average approx. 30 per year, more than halving gun related homicides.

Then of course there is the line "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" - and yes that statement is correct though extremely simplistic, it's also quite laughable.

First up the vast majority of homicides are not people who go insane and commit mass murder, there simply people who either snap, are under the influence or whatever their case is, the point is their not mass murderers and if the easy access to a firearm was not available more than likely there victim would still be alive. Instead of shooting someone dead, the culprit would be left with the option a physical fight, using less violent weapons. i.e a knife etc.

I agree that a gun ban is not going to do that much to stop insane people going on a mass killing spree, but it will dramatically lower your 9000 fellow civilians who get shot dead every year in America.

Originally posted by SpearMint
I don't wish to start a debate as to whether anti-gun people are right or not, but there isn't a definitive line between citizen and criminal, nor citizen and mass murderer. One can be the other, there's no telling who's a "good guy" now, or who will be further down the line.

I can understand your reasoning.
Especially in todays day and age.
With the large population, there's more crime.
In my eyes, it is the number one reason to want protection.
Be it self defense training, or proper weapons training...
Either of which could save your life or those you love.

Fact: Something is SERIOUSLY going wrong in America !

I just finished doing some research on the internet out of curiosity to see how many gun rampage killings might have been committed by actual criminals because I noticed in a lot of these threads that people keep justifying their need to "bear arms" was for the purpose of protection against "criminals"... what I found shocked the hell out of me.

I also decided to gather info for not only the US, but also Britain, Australia, and Canada just to see what the differences might be because of all the bickering coming from non-Americans advocating gun control in the US.

Here's what I found folks (this might shock many of you as well) going as far back as I could:


Gun Rampage Killings by Country:


United States

2012 Newtown School, Adam Lanza (killed 27): no prior criminal record – guns taken from parent

2012 Wisconsin Sikh Temple, Wade Page (killed 6): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

2012 Aurora Theatre, James Holmes (killed 12): no prior criminal record – guns acquirement unknown

2011 Carson City IHOP, Eduardo Sencion (killed 4): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

2011 Grand Rapids, Rodrick Dantzier (killed 7): prior assault charge – guns acquirement unknown

2011 Tucson Grocery, Jared Loughner (killed 6): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

2010 Hartford Beer Dist, Omar Thornton (killed 8): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

2009 Fort Hood, Nidal Malik Hassan (killed 13): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

2009 Binghamton, Jiverly Wong (killed 13): misdemeanor fraud – guns legally self-purchased

2009 Geneva County, Michael McLendon (killed 10): no prior criminal record – guns acquirement unknown

2008 Illinois University, Steven Kazmierczak (killed 5): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

2007 Westroads Mall, Robert Hawkins (killed 8): previous criminal history – guns acquirement unknown

2007 Virginia Tech, Seung-Hui Cho (killed 32): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

2004 Meteor Hunting Camp, Chai Vang (killed 6): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

2000 Edgewater Tech, Michael McDermott (killed 7): no prior criminal record – guns acquired unknown

1999 Honolulu Xerox, Byran Uyesugi (killed 7): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1999 Westwood Baptist Church, Larry Ashbrook (killed 7): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1999 Columbine, Eric Harris/Dylan Klebold (killed 13): prior break and enter charge dropped – guns legally purchased by 18 year old friend

1999 Atlanta Day Traders, Mark Barton (killed 12): prior misdemeanor charge – guns legally self-purchased

1998 Thurston High, Kipland Kinkel (killed 4): no prior criminal record – guns taken from parent

1998 Westside Middle School, Andrew Golden/Mitchell Johnson (killed 5): no prior criminal records – guns taken from grandparents

1998 Newington CT, Matthew Beck (killed 4): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1997 Orange CA, Arturo Torres (killed 4): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1994 Fairfield Air Force Base, Dean Mellberg (killed 5): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1993 Long Island, Colin Ferguson (killed 6): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1993 San Francisco, Gian Ferri (killed 8): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1991 Luby’s Massacre, George Hennard (killed 23): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1990 Jacksonville GMAC, James Pough (killed 11): long criminal history – guns legally self-purchased

1989 Standard Gravure, Joseph Wesbecker (killed 8): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1989 Cleveland Elementary, Patrick Purdy (killed 5): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1987 Russellville, Ronald Simmons (killed 16): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1986 Edmond Post Office, Patrick Sherrill (killed 14): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1984 San Ysidro McDonalds, James Huberty (killed 21): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1984 Ianni’s Club Dallas, Abdelkrim Belachheb (killed 5): illegal immigrant – guns acquirement unknown

1973 New Orleans, Mark Essex (killed 9): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1966 U of Texas, Charles Whitman (killed 15): no prior criminal record – guns taken from parent

1949 Camden NJ, Howard Unruh (killed 13): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1946 LST 172, Vincent Smith (killed 9): no prior criminal history – guns acquired in military service


Post continued below....

Post continued from above...

Gun Rampage Killings by country:


Britain Gun Rampage Killings:

2010 Cumbria, Derrick Byrd (killed 13): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1996 Dunblane school, Thomas Hamilton (killed 18): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased

1987 Hungerford massacre, Michael Ryan (killed 17): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased


Australia Gun Rampage Killings:

1996 Port Arthur, Martin Bryant (killed 35): no prior criminal record – guns acquirement unknown


Canada Gun Rampage Killings:

1989 Montreal University, Marc Lepine (killed 14): no prior criminal record – guns legally self-purchased





Does anyone else notice the pattern here with damn near every single incident in all of the countries?!
No prior criminal records !!

People are literally going nuts running around going on killing rampages in public places with guns. Most of which were semi-automatics and some fully automatic... and most of these as I was reading through each crime the perps has more than two or three guns and tons of ammunition.

Here are the sources I used to gather my data:

Wiki
Citizens Crime Commission


Now look at the difference in how many occurrences have happened in the US compared to the other three countries ! Holy crap, I honestly had no idea there were that many in the US... most of them I had never even heard of.

It's not the damn criminals we need to be worrying about here people... it's the friggin' "law abiding" citizens we need to worry about !

They're the ones snapping and going out on gun-toting rampages...

Wow.

How the hell is anyone going to know who we should and shouldn't be selling guns to. But in my mind from all the info I've gathered here, it's outright blatantly obvious to me that something IS seriously going wrong in the United States.

Gun control or no gun control, what the hell is going on over there ?!

I personally know felons who own guns.

You're right...

Of course confiscation won't have an immediate effect, because there are still many guns in circulation.


QV.

reply to post by qvision


It's like with the Prohibition... how will it stop anything?

You can only regulate it.

If someone wants to kill, they're going to find a way to get their hands on guns or whatever other weapon they can use. There's no doubt about it.

But why are so many "law abiding" citizens going nuts and running around killing masses of other "law abiding" citizens" ?

A lot of these perps in my data above show previous histories of mental problems, but only some of them, not all of them.

So what's the problem going on in America ?
And what then, is the solution ?

The only thing I can come up with is that it must have something to do with guns being so easily accessible or something ?

Originally posted by pacifier2012
Check out Australia. Violent crime dropped when they banned guns in the way they did.

What you are talking about is shootings from people who shouldn't own guns in the first place as proven by the violence !!!

Your talking through a hole in your head, was it from a gunshot wound?

Can you prove your claim with statistical data? Or you just spewing idiological regurgitated information from the msm and your goverrnment?

FACT: yes. They do said the Prosecutor).

Be assured we WILL get your guns in time. It will be a long time, but it is coming. FACT.

Ok so you have a ban on guns and take guns away from people who never had guns to start with and you take the guns away from the law abiding citizens as well. How does that make anyone more secure when a crazed gunman doesn't care about gun laws? Geez think before you act people. The shooting could have been carried out with a knife too. What are little children going to do against a man with a knife or a very sharp long sword? There is equal lethality there. Schools that literally have no security and some even have open campus and doors unlocked. Security up the wazoo at the airports to thwart terrorism, but your kids are wide open on the front lines. Think about that for a moment.

Originally posted by sean
Ok so you have a ban on guns and take guns away from people who never had guns to start with and you take the guns away from the law abiding citizens as well. How does that make anyone more secure when a crazed gunman doesn't care about gun laws? Geez think before you act people. The shooting could have been carried out with a knife too. What are little children going to do against a man with a knife or a very sharp long sword? There is equal lethality there. Schools that literally have no security and some even have open campus and doors unlocked. Security up the wazoo at the airports to thwart terrorism, but your kids are wide open on the front lines. Think about that for a moment.

"Crazed gunman" is quite an emotive term but I get your point, it's dealing with the unknown. The problem is, who was this entity, now also dead, and who had guns, and was able to use them, and was also then able to kill himself in the same way.

Originally posted by lee anoma
reply to post by Klassified

 

What happened to calling the police?

If the citizen wasn't armed with a gun, chances are neither were the gangs.

Regardless...why clutch an icepick and pray, instead of simply phoning the people to protect you who do have guns?

- Lee

edit on 22-12-2012 by lee anoma because: (no reason given)

That's right! Call the police. When they get there, they can photograph the bodies of the unarmed sheep, who died bleating for their lives after being robbed, raped and tourtured.

When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

Originally posted by Beavers
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

FACT: less than 1% of the gun deaths in America occur anywhere where guns are banned.

Go pedal your murder elsewhere.

What percent of places are guns banned in the U.S? Answer that and then your little factoid gets put into perspective.

The OP has a good point and so does a few other people that don't necessarily wholly agree with the OP. But.....

I have a question for anyone that agrees OR disagrees with the OP: What is your solution to the problem?

-Alien

reply to post by Alien Abduct


if someone doesn't care if they are a murderer or not, what makes you think they'll give a toss about gun laws?

surely they'll just walk into a town where they aren't banned, and go and buy them there instead?

reply to post by Beavers


I agree, or just buy the gun off the street.

Like I told a friend of mine when discussing this....If they put armed guards in all the schools then the murderer will just simply pick a new target like say Wall Mart or any other place where there is a large dense group of sitting ducks.

And if they completely ban guns altogether and somehow get every last gun off the streets then guess what......the would be mass murderer will simply build home made bombs that can do the same job.

I seen a picture on Facebook let me see if I can find it........

Here it is..




-Alien

From someone who has friends and family in South Africa I call total bull on the Daily Mail link you provided and I can't find anywhere else which cites those same statistics.

There's something seriously wrong with your source if it thinks that Canada is twice as violent as the US and 15x as violent as Australia.

Doubly so when it states that Austria about as dangerous than South Africa, which has 20,000 murders per year. Belgium having a violent crime rate 2 and a half time more than the United States? Have you ever been to Belgium? I lived there for 3 years of my life and like anywhere a violent crime did happen now and then but it was basically unheard of, even in Brussels! Pickpockets were a problem, but petty thefts a violent crime does not make.

I would put it down to reporting methods. In the USA, things like "Threatening Behaviour" and Vandalism are not a violent crimes. In Europe they are. Australia probably only lists ABH and GBH's. South Africa probably only lists serious violent crime too, not to mention the massive problem of undereporting they have over there which would make sense with how utterly feral that blasted place can be.