The Ban on Guns is not about saftey...

reply to post by Kurokage

You're welcome on the civility. I actually thought I was a little rough on one reply and had apparently misunderstood your position as being quite Anti-Gun. Well...Assumptions and all that, right? Got me on that one.

Anyway, I think a bit of context that might be missed in the ferocity of reaction by some people ..including myself... is that while many people don't know or care one bit about the gun debate outside tragedies like this ...and so this whole battle is fresh, new, immediate and passionate over the acts in CT, it's not that way for everyone. Some of us have been active in the non-stop almost daily fight against the push for new regulation, laws and B.S. which has been going on for over 25 years. I've sure been aware and vocal for many years. The nature of using this incident as a cheap political ladder to jump a LONG LONG running issue and political battle is why many react SO strong in the US. ...for some, that is all they're doing too. Cheap.

Personally, in my own reaction and all I can speak for, it's not about any gun obsession. It really isn't. As much as I own and reloading and etc etc... I really haven't been out using much of it since my dad passed a couple years ago. That..changed a lot in what was enjoyable and what wasn't. Hence...I'm not even what you'd call a real active shooter at the moment. I carry..of course..but I can give you specifics for crime blotter stuff right in this city to show how crime is all the reason needed.


One other thing I've mentioned before and it bears repeating. Many times in fact, IMO. I carry CCW. Many others here carry CCW. I can tell pretty quick who DOES carry that way and who only claims to. So can everyone else who actually DOES carry a gun. Why? How? I'm not psychic (well..not in this context. ). The fact of the matter is, carrying a gun is a BIG pain in the ass. There is no OTHER way to honestly put that. If it's concealed, it's in contact with skin. Even a Glock is as much metal as polymer and metal rusts. Finish metal SEEMS even worse about it! I.E...... Cleaning that gun is a nightly process for wiping down anyway. A full tear down and clean is a weekly to bi-weekly thing, depending on how much I'm out. Again, rust is an enemy every gun owner knows..and hates...and the sheer humidity next to the body in concealed carry is enough to work into the weapon itself.

I don't actually KNOW anyone ...honestly *KNOW* they carry a gun...and hear them anxious or enthusiastic. It's a necessary evil as much as the ultimate purpose for it may become. Only a psycho likes it.....or even thinks of that heavy, awkward and uncomfy lump as a weapon to do harm with. Anyone who carries a gun and DOES think of it that way, needs that permit pulled IMO.

CCW is there to save life...not take it, and I say this because it's the feeling I've known to be true in EVERY permit holder I've known, without exception. Just to give some American perspective on the passions and emotions of all this.

After a year of reading I had to sign up for this fight. Any non-Americans who think the American people can't revolt if they so choose are flat out delusional and misinformed. There is a large portion of our population, such as every male of age and most females in my family, who hold Class 3 FFL, NFA and CCW permits. This allows us to legally own anything we wish including military grade/surplus arms, body armor and high-explosives. We could easily hold our own again our military especially in an urban environment or the rugged mountain terrain. I can tell you the saying "you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hand" is not a joke. I don't care if they pulled up with 10 APCs towing howitzers in my front yard to take my rights, two outcomes would occur. The first would be they vacate my property peacefully, the second well lets just say the tree of liberty would be refreshed. I will not bow without a fight, I will die to protect my and others rights, my family, my liberty. Not to mention every member of the armed forces I know would go AWOL and side with the citizens even vowing to take whatever equipment they could to arm we the people who they swore and oath to protect. PERIOD. End of discussion. Want to call my bluff, roll up, but be prepared to give your life just as sure as I am prepared to give mine. It will be war. Si vis pacum, parabellum. If you want peace, prepare for war.

reply to post by TedHodgson

Ted , how about our governments ?? We live in a violent world , that we have little control over. Incrementally our leaders are taking away our rights while they try to soothe us with promised security. I say that the only to protect ourselves is to have some personal power in the form of fire-arms that are on par with what they have. I'm not having any humble pie as we enter into this police state.

reply to post by conspiracytheoristIAM


I'd rather eat broken glass and loaded bullets than humble pie, in the event of a revolution. I will not go quietly into the night. This isn't Nazi Germany and I'm not an unarmed outnumbered victim. I may be outnumbered but after a few drums of anfo a cpl thousand rounds of ammo and some loss of blood and life those numbers won't be so different anymore.

2,996 people dead on 9/11.

Uncle Sam steps in, kill all Arabs, it's on bitches! People cheering...

20 children dead on 2/14.

Uncle Sam steps in, let's take away all the guns from our citizens, so we can keep our children safe! People cheering...

Am I the only one that is starting to see a pattern here?

Just curious...

If 9/11 didn't happen, would we have invaded middle east?
Will the American government, while not have the support of it's citizens, be able to invade middle east by their own terms?

If 2/14 didn't happen, would we have this whole gun ban issue?
If 20 children didn't die, would we have the crowd that we have now to support gun ban? Will a gun ban ever pass without this incident?

So according to this pattern, crisis/reaction/solution, well.. am I the only one seeing a pattern in this?

Am I the only one worried about this kind of pattern occur ever so often in the near future?

Originally posted by Kurokage
When it comes to some Americans and there guns they sound to me just like those taliban extremists screaming sharia law, islamic freedom, and the infedals know nothing, whilst beheading or stoning some poor soul to death. Its like two sides of the same coin.

edit on 20-12-2012 by Kurokage because: (no reason given)

No bodys calling for heads. Get ahold of yourself.

Originally posted by conspiracytheoristIAM
reply to post by TedHodgson

 

Ted , how about our governments ?? We live in a violent world , that we have little control over. Incrementally our leaders are taking away our rights while they try to soothe us with promised security. I say that the only to protect ourselves is to have some personal power in the form of fire-arms that are on par with what they have. I'm not having any humble pie as we enter into this police state.

We just witnessed the bigest rip off in american history, taxes are going up, they just passed a 2000 page health care bill nobody paying for it wants, we are in large scale debt to another nation, a debt some are saying we cant pay back, warnings of harder times than we have seen abound.......and now this....strange mass killings that our own so called well informing press cant even get right or fill us in on and now new measures of infringement on that which shall not be infinged upon.

Blank.

there are 200 million guns in america


200 million

and the us gov't can choose which window in your house the missile goes through from miles away

how is a gun going to stop them ?

paranoid delusions

reply to post by syrinx high priest
They will run out of misslies.

No the gun ban is about "Growing up" as humans,

This sophistry is stunning. The world is more dangerous today, than ever. To willingly disarm in the face of this fact is to beg disaster.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest

and the us gov't can choose which window in your house the missile goes through from miles away

how is a gun going to stop them ?

paranoid delusions

We assume you prominently display a sign in your front yard "Proudly Weapon Free Home" ??

reply to post by syrinx high priest


First, those missles are worthless without someone to press the button. Second, they only have so many missles, do you really think the manufacturers will resupply the very people killing their own? Missles can also be easily jammed with a $1000 and a few hours of soldering. With a weeks time and the right parts from radio shack you can build a net around your location that makes those missles useless. If you think they will use missles against their own brothers and sisters you're the one who's delusional. I know plenty of active duty military that would just as soon put a bullet in their commanding officers brain than follow his orders to kill those they swore to protect.

Here are some sobering facts about the history of gun control, and "the experts agree gun control works!" ( source : ______beforeitsnews/libertarian/2012/12/after-gun-control-a-chilling-historical-perspective-share-2474718.html )


F.T.G.

Would people listen if they heard it from a spree killer? I don't want ANY more killings! But I do kinda wish one or two or ten of the past spree killers would post all over the internet how people are stupid for not allowing guns in public areas. Maybe make a comment about looking forward to knowing how good it will feel knowing he is the only person with a firearm within a half a mile or so. Would people realize it then that innocent people are better off armed against criminals who would do them harm??

I know the local high school has one cop and one security guy. The security guy does not carry a gun, he wears a suit and looks more like a principal or superintendant.

There's well over 1,000 students. Maybe even close to 2,000... I think some smaller schools even use their football stadium. And they have a swimming pool, in its own building, that the public is free to use. Might cost money... Also a performing arts center, like a mini Broadway theatre where they put on plays and other events for the public. Sure its not giant, but its a decent sized school in a medium sized city.

Those two guards are not there to keep children safe. It would be impossible. Any gunman with a plan could either avoid them long enough to take out 20-30 people, or, position themselves behind the cop before pulling out a gun, and take him out first... Then you're the only gun around. To be honest, I don't even know for sure if the school cop carries a gun...

So, if they aren't there to keep the kids safe, what are they there for? I think its a show of force AGAINST the student population to get them used to obeying authority and being watched, questioned, randomly searched, having your property looked through, etc. It's to intimidate them into compliance.

This has been a great thread to follow and read. I thoroughly enjoyed it to the end and now cannot leave without my personal comment on all I have read. Hopefully, it will not be misconstrued.

I am an American. I am proud to be one. I believe as my forefathers did, that when I was created, I inherited certain rights from my creator. The right to protect myself, my property and my family. I believe my mind is the greatest and most dangerous weapon available to me. I believe that all others deserve this right whatever their status in society is. I also believe that, in order to properly protect myself, those I love and the things I have earned through my labors, a firearm is one of the best methods of doing so.

I am a CCW holder, have been for many years and carry all of the time.

I do not need to carry when running to the corner store for that bag of Doritos, or do I? What incident could happen there? It is just two minutes away.
I do not need to carry when I run down to the grocer for my weekly shopping, who would cause trouble there? When I head out to church on Sunday morning and meet with my friends, I do not need to carry, nothing could happen in church could it?

BUT I DO CARRY TO ALL OF THESE PLACES AND MANY MORE.

Why?

Because, on the off chance, someone with ideas of mass murder inside their scrambled brain decides that it is time to act upon those ideas, I have the chance to defend myself and the others I am surrounded by. Does this make me a danger to society? NO. Does it make me crazy for believing something terrible may transpire? NO

Being a Concealed Carry Permit holder obligates me to use my firearm in the protection of others should the need arise.

Every time I carry, I hope and pray that I will never need to use my firearm. Not out of fear, but from the knowledge I would take a life to protect another. I have never fired my weapon at another living human, but I have watched the life fade from the eyes of the dying. I have heard the last gasp of air of a man and know that even a criminals life holds some value to someone else. This will not be my concern if my life or the life of another is threatened in my presence as the survival instinct will kick in, just as sure as my eyes naturally blink and my heart beats.

So, IMO guns are not meant for killing alone, even if they were created for such a purpose. Yes, guns kill people, but if they remain in the hands of a responsible person, they can be used appropriately against violent crime.

We Americans enjoy our freedoms and will not permit those attempting to infringe upon them to have them without standing up for them, yet we do fail when it comes to ensuring those freedoms are not slowly whittled away by legislature over the years. It is also my belief that we as Americans owe it to our countrymen/women to ensure those who own firearms are fully aware of their true potential and measures of safely securing them while in the home are taught upon any purchase. Thankfully as Wrabbit2000 posted, our Supreme Court believes as our forefathers did. Let's hope they continue to do so.

reply to post by Kurokage
I have a real problem with letting the police come in my home for any reason, unless I invite them. Unless I am suspected of a crime and the police have a warrant to search specific areas of my home, they have no business bothering me. There job is to inforce the law, and protect me. Call 911 when you have a home invasion. You will be injured or dead before the police arrive.
Because I have handguns, a Mossberg tactical shot gun, and military fighting knives, the odds are that my wife and I will still be standing when the police arrive, True we wiil need a stiff drink or a tranquilizer to stop the shaking, but we will be alive.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz
This woman put a loaded weapon in her vehicle, within reach of a mentally unstable child. Why did she not place the weapon in the trunck of the car, and the magazines in her purse on in a locked box? When I travel with my weapons, I place them in a locked box. I put the magazines and extra ammo in a different box, well seperated from the weapons. It might not stop the cops from inspecfting me, but it will make them realize that I am not an immediate threat.

reply to post by kettlebellysmith


She completely messed up.

Well to begin with the ammo and weapon have to be transported separately. You cannot transport a loaded weapon, or a weapon and its ammo together. You most certainly cannot store it permanently in your car.

She needed a locker with key lock only she had the key to and the ammo needed to be kept in it, in its own lock box. Also each weapon needed to have a trigger lock on it that again, only she had a key to.

She was storing them illegally.

Depending on the state, they punish you per bullet if kept in this manner with either fines or time in, or both as well as per weapon.

I am for gun ownership, BUT responsible gun ownership. It is actually very serious and should be taken as serious as a solider his weapon. Just because it is a hunting weapon or one for recreation does not mean you can be lax with it. If you must, then you are not ready or worthy of owning a weapon.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I would like to thank for your open and honest relpy.

We have a lot in common between the USA and Britian, but somethings are very different
If all we do is shout at each other when it comes to the differences, neither understands the others point of view and we can all be guillty of that from time to time.

When the issue of firearms are raised, Americans can be very heated (no offence intended), and trying to see from your point of view can be hard without a real discussion and not some shouting match about rights.

Obviously Britain has limited firearms and it's been that way for a while, and harsh critisim by some posters when trying to understand why firearms are SO important makes many poster sound like armchair rambos or Charlton Heston impersonators.