Gun Banning - Why would gun control measures that didn't work in the UK, work in the U.S.? (Hungerf

reply to post by woogleuk


LOL.. I think you must have forgotten your original point.

Let's rewind. You are trying to argue that the reason the UK has a higher violent crime rate than the US is because the UK includes crimes which aren't actually violent in their list of violent crimes.

Now I don't mean to make you look dumb, but most if not all of those would also be included in the US violent crime rate. (actually stealing a gun, or owning one illegally is considered a violent crime so you would think we would have a higher violent crime rate than the uk due to that.. buuut we doooon't, which I deduce is a direct result of your fibbing, that and your giant nose)

So you are still wrong, the UK still has a higher violent crime rate than the US and you can't loophole your way out of it. Even if you were right do you realize how stupid that sounds.

WoogleUK: It seems the UK's violent crime rate is at 100 p,c, and the US is only at 75 crime rate p.c., this simply won't due!

Lord Worcestershire III: Well.. maybe we can scratch off child abduction, conspiracy to murder, vehicular manslaughter, and back alley abortions" *scratch scratch scratch* UK 74 crime rate p.c. US crime rate p.c.

WoogleUK: Ah, yes, that's the ticket!

Lord Worcestershire III: Now we have falsified the moral highground!

WoogleUK: Huzzah!

reply to post by Logos23


It does matter. You guys apparently don't understand that we have the same things. If you are caught with an illegal handgun in the US, or if you steal a gun, that's still a violent crime.

We have the same non physical violent crimes, so WoogleUK is dead wrong. It isn't "non violent - violent crimes" inflating your numbers, because we have the same thing. What it is is the clear cut fact that the UK has more violent crime than the US per capita.

Sorry, I know you brits want to wiggle out of it, but its true.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


That was just an example pal, shouting at someone in the street can be regarded as a violent crime.

Also......you don't seem to know your country very well, a simple web search told me..........

"The United States Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) counts five categories of crime as violent crimes: murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault."

A further search told me that none of those include what the UK would consider a violent crime, ie shouting "oi you raggamuffin toe humper" to someone walking past.

My argument still stands....... (for now, at least until you come back with a further smartarse comment and/or other details)

Gun Control worked in the UK how can you say it didn't. There is now a handful of murders with fire arms in the UK compared to the thousands in the USA.

We have had three mad shooting sprees in the last couple of decades where as america has alot more than that per year. So how can you say that Gun control did not work in the UK ?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Logos23

 

It does matter. You guys apparently don't understand that we have the same things. If you are caught with an illegal handgun in the US, or if you steal a gun, that's still a violent crime.

We have the same non physical violent crimes, so WoogleUK is dead wrong. It isn't "non violent - violent crimes" inflating your numbers, because we have the same thing. What it is is the clear cut fact that the UK has more violent crime than the US per capita.

Sorry, I know you brits want to wiggle out of it, but its true.

Not according to the FBI and the Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) programme that releases the official crime statistics for the US ......

FBI Violent Crime

reply to post by Snoopie


How often did you have shooting sprees before the bans?

Why didn't you have more in the time between Hungerford and Dunblane? It has little to do with the guns, they were there, you guys had them, and more to do with people. I am not here do indefinitely defend America, I am defending our right to own guns. Guns are not the reason these things are happening. I personally believe it has more to do with anti depressants than anything. We've always had guns, that hasn't changed, but the number of these shooting events has. So what is the real problem.

reply to post by Logos23


First off let's get something out of the way.
The UK's violent crime rate is many many times that of the US. Even if you were correct in your apparent "violent criems but not really violent" disparity, it likely wouldn't account for this larger of a difference and if someone wants to do the work to only include the crimes in the UK that would be considered violent crimes in the US also and then see who has a higher crime rate.. well be my guest.

I have also read there are differences between how the US and UK determine a homicide that amount to the UK cooking the books. The US determines a homicide when the coroner suspects foul play. Is it the same in the UK, I really don't know.

As for the violent crime thing. Sorry but it's just not as black and white as your link suggests and you know that. It would be naive to believe that with the varied number of possible crimes. I am talking from personal experience having a friend that tried to pawn a gun he bought then coming to find out it had been stolen some time back before he owned it. He was facing charges and was told (and I was with him when he was told) that it would be considered a violent crime because all crimes involving firearms are (regardless of whether or not they were used). Now this may not apply to all states or it could be something specific to common wealths. Each state, as I'm sure you know, has their own set of laws and ways of doing things. Maybe when I am not on a phone I will look it up. If I am wrong, or was lied to by the officer I will apologize and admit it. I am fairly sure though, that all forms of assault are considered violent crimes, despite not all assaults being physical or that violent. I can assure you 100 percent though that we do have some of the same "soft" violent crimes that you guys do.

Finally.. you guys from the UK seem desperate to deny that you have a high violent crime rate. You guys sound like Ahmadinijead being told gays exist in Iran. Soften it however you like, you guys have a much higher violent crime rate than we do and most of it is because of actual violent crime. Also your gun crime is on the rise since you banned guns, but that's for a later argument.

Sorry I am just having a hard time believing that you're violent crime rate is being inflating because you guys fart on a bobby. I also highly doubt the UK would include these faux violent crimes you are mentioning and jack their violent crime rate sky high on the world stage. Face it, you guys have a higher violent crime rate than the US. For fun.

Anyway.. not that it's particularly active, but the thread has gotten a bit off track.

The point was that banning handguns and assault weapons didn't stop massacres in the UK and it didn't even make them less deadly, it just changed the avenue by which they are achieved all the while disarming the population.