Gun Banning - Why would gun control measures that didn't work in the UK, work in the U.S.? (Hungerf

reply to post by NavyDoc


Thank you. I tried to explain this earlier (I believe it was in my thread here).
Their massacres have continued. The killers have been just as succesful using non self loading/semi auto weapons. All the while, their gun crime rate has increased. All that has really changed is that law abiding citizens are no longer able to buy guns.

reply to post by woogleuk


People keep saying what you are saying, but the fail to acknowledge that culture plays a large part. I bet if you go back in time to before you had your gun ban, and both countries still had access to the same firearms, the US still had a higher gun crime rate. It doesn't have anything to do with the guns. So why are we addressing them?

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


I can agree to that in part. But then again us Brits have the bollocks to fight with our fists (and heads if needs be), rather than hide behind a gun.

reply to post by NavyDoc


I blame immigration, seriously. The majority of these deaths are caused by outsiders who come from violent countries.

reply to post by woogleuk

Doesn't that back up what the OP was saying?

It isn't the guns or their availability but the people's culture.

reply to post by daskakik


In a way, yes. One of the reasons I am am glad firearms are harder to get in the UK is that we are all nuts, me included.

Arm the UK and the USA will seem like a kindergarten in comparison.

That fact alone also makes us realise what a stupid idea it is to arm a civilian population.

reply to post by woogleuk


Don't troll. That's such a pointless thing to say. Of course Americans fight just the same as Brits, but I doubt you would attempt to use your fists if someone was coming at you with a knife or a gun. Also, despite what you might think, I would say it takes "bollocks" to shoot someone to defend yourself. I don't understand why everyone seems to think only sociopaths shoot people in self defense. Good luck using your fists to fend off that criminal mugging you with a gun or a knife.

Please refrain from posting ignorant messages with only trolling in mind. You and I both know your previous post was stupid.

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

I blame immigration, seriously. The majority of these deaths are caused by outsiders who come from violent countries.

Fair enough. However, gun control did not make you safer against these immigrants, did they?

reply to post by woogleuk


Another incorrect statement. It wasn't too long ago that you guys were armed, why are you acting like you can compare the two. Gun crime has risen for you guys after the gun ban, but even when you guys did have guns your gun crime rate wasn't as high as ours. It is a cultural thing.

I really wish you would stick to reality while posting. You posts seem to vary between non sense statement to outright trolling.

There is no point in arguing. I made a solid case, and I am not beign cocky, it's just reality.

Also, stop acting like it was some righteous decision by the UK. You guys had handguns 16 years ago and your GOVERNMENT MADE YOU GIVE THEM UP. 20 or so years ago you had semi auto rifles and your government MADE you give them up. All the while your gun crime rate has risen despite you guys not having access to guns. So it's safe to say that the good citizens that wouldn't have committed crimes with guns lost a right, while the criminals have increased.

What you are saying is that more citizens would be criminals if guns were illegal. That doesn't make sense.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Keep drinking that "kool aid" son.

Gun crime has risen? If that was true it is because changes to the law have made it so.

If tobacco was made illegal, fag crime would go up ten fold would it not?

reply to post by woogleuk

I think you are trying to say that cases of illegal possession inflate the numbers but those are not the numbers presented by the OP and NavyDoc. They are presenting the number of crimes committed with a gun.

reply to post by woogleuk


Koolaid?
I am afraid not.
Maybe you should do some actual research before spouting cliches at me.
Gun crime has risen since UK's bans have gone into place and it is NOT due to making previous gun owners criminals you know that was ridiculous when you typed it you just maybe hoped people that didn't think for themselves would think you made a real point. Also the UK has a higher percentage of violent crime per capita than the US.

So do a little reading because I want you to cite source your forthcoming apology to me later.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


You will get no apology, I stand by what I said.

Gun crime is up because more people are caught with illegal firearms, hence they committed a gun crime.

Violent crime is higher because what is recorded as a violent crime in the UK would not be recorded as such elsewhere, ie if I was to shout abuse at someone, they reported it to the police, I would be arrested, a violent crime would be recorded.

The amount of actual physical violent crime is much lower than what the numbers suggest.

The UK is far from rosy, but figures on a piece of paper do not reflect what is actually going on.

Any Brit on these forums will tell you the exact same thing.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by woogleuk

 

I honestly think the real, and only problem in the US is the mental health issue. I never wanted to blame video games either, and I sincerely don't think it's the violent content, but I think that these people that play an unusual amount of online shooters, and stay online as the majority of their social life, those people do become disconnected and dis-associative.

Our mental health system is gutted, and when someone has a problem they throw a pill at it.. and half the time the pill has a side effect of making one violent or suicidal (see: almost any depression medication). I think there is something going on here, and it's not the guns whispering into a lads ear telling him to spill blood.

I think it is the whole culture of having to constantly try to prove yourself better than others in order to get ahead in life.

reply to post by woogleuk


Say it all you want but those cases are not included.

reply to post by woogleuk


Prove that to me. Prove to me that if you shouted something at someone they consider that a violent crime in the UK. To me that is just another example of you guys submitting to a corrupt justice system in true. I knew you guys gave up your guns. I didn't, however, know that you had lost your freedom of speech too. UK is sounding even more miserable by the second how you describe it.

One verified example will do. Though I am pretty sure you are just making it up.
I see a lot of sour grapes from you cats in the UK.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
Also the UK has a higher percentage of violent crime per capita than the US.

It doesn't matter how many times this statement get's addressed on ATS the fact's repeatedly get ignored....

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Everybody in the UK has the right to own a shotgun, everybody in the UK can own a rifle if they are deemed responsible, criminal and mental records allowing on both counts.

Fact is, not many want them, including the police.

Also, here are some examples of non physical violent crimes that make up the UK violent crime statistics straight from the horses mouth......

Conspiracy to Murder
Threats to Kill
Causing Death by Dangerous Driving
Causing Death by Careless Driving under the Influence of Drink or Drugs
Causing Death by Careless or Inconsiderate Driving
Causing Death by Driving: Unlicensed, Disqualified or Uninsured Drivers
Harassment
Racially or Religiously Aggravated Harassment
Public Fear, Alarm or Distress
Racially or Religiously Aggravated Public Fear, Alarm or Distress
Possession of Firearms with Intent
Possession of Firearms Offences
Possession of Other Weapons
Possession of Article with Blade or Point
Child Abduction
Procuring Illegal Abortion
Causing Death by Aggravated Vehicle Taking
Assault without Injury on a Constable
Assault without Injury
Racially or Religiously Aggravated Assault without Injury

Source

reply to post by woogleuk


It doesn't matter how many time's you post this stuff on ATS it get's ignored...I've tried. Or those who do actually take notice of the facts turn it around into a discussion of how stupid the UK is if it includes many many crimes that are absent of any physical harm......but it would be nice if people can just accept that UK V US violent crime statistics can't be compared and move along to a more relevant discussion.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by woogleuk

 

You missed my point kinda. I was saying to Americans that banning one class of gun didn't solve the problem. And when it didn't solve the problem they moved on to the next class of gun. Before you knew it you were disarmed. And you will still have mass shootings and people killed in other manners. Guns aren't the problem, deranged people and unsafe environments are the problems.

Its against the law to murder people to begin with. If this law didnt stop said killers then a gun ban wont help.
Its not like good everyday folks are going nuts.