Time to bring back Corporal punishment?

With all the chaos going on in the world and things getting worse; I have a theory based on my experiences; my friends experiences; and my GF's experiences she is a high school teacher. Correction is not child abuse...we ARE animals; whether anyone wants to believe that or not...all animals need training; some animals are more difficult to train; in the old days they called it breaking; as in breaking the animals natural tendencies to adapt to the situation and environment appropriately, instead of like a caged beast.

The problem really is society; it is not getting better it is getting worse...this has nothing to do with guns or video games or anything else. What are the punishments for children since 1970?

in the 70's and before. Actions had a clear consequence; teachers and parents could paddle...the butt is a nice fleshy area that can take some whacks with no physical side effect other than a reminder to consequences when one sits down, mental effects yes there are some; but they are positive. Anywhere other than the rear end is abuse...When I was in school; seeing a paddle alone, was enough for the majority to obey the rules. I know I didn't want to get paddled, so seeing one or someone getting paddled was a reminder, of why we obey the rules. Even if it was out of fear it was beneficial.

Now? punishment...no paddle you'll get lawsuits or jailed. The alternatives...hours kids have to stay after school. The teachers don't want to sit an extra hour or two after class...they have other things to do; so many just let the small stuff slide. Ok larger stuff in school suspension...they get to do their class work in another room...a change of scenery seems more as a vacation away from the drudgery than anything else. Next highest offence; same as the last but now the child gets to take some days off and relax at home.

Starting to see the problem here? The punishments are not punishments...it reinforces bad behavior. If I don't want to be in class; act out...yay I win now I am in a different class...I don't want to to be at school at all; curse the teacher, yay now I get to stay home. These punishments; do not have a real consequence that is unwanted. At home a parent can restrict the child's freedoms. You can't play until you do your homework...that is if the parents are even at home...then they can just police themselves do whatever they want. There's no structure; in a situation like that; why should both parents work, if there are two; if daycare etc. costs just as much as your second income? Daycare teachers can't punish, they can only shift the child around to another daycare.

Children need at least one parent in constant social contact; from ages zero to 5 years old. These are the formative years in social development. The person at 5 years old; will behave the same when they are an adult. There's a documentary series called UP where a psychologist interviewed children in England; and checked in on them every decade...the last one the children were in their 40's. Their drives and who they were at 5 persisted throughout their whole lives; even through experiences and wisdom gained from the experience...that child was still there.

Yes it's a scary thought...but society has gotten severely worse; since corporal punishment; disappeared and dual career families appeared.

I know I can't be alone on this; I and all of my friends and family...have been spanked or feared it; except for two. One of those has been in jail and fight numerous times and is an alcoholic and drug abuser; the other was committed to a state mental hospital, and is a self admitted sociopath. Both of them; got every toy etc they ever asked for and neither ever got spanked or feared it. All the ones that have received physical correction; or were too scared to receive it I know; are law abiding productive members of society.

Perhaps fear of consequence is the key that fits the lock in all of this? Because the consequences now; are inconsequential.

The only negative consequences I can give my children are as follows:

* silent lunch
* walk laps during recess
* call a parent


None of those are going to make a kid choose to behave over misbehavior. But its all I've got.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
The only negative consequences I can give my children are as follows:

* silent lunch
* walk laps during recess
* call a parent


None of those are going to make a kid choose to behave over misbehavior. But its all I've got.

You make them walk laps? I think that is horrible.

Would you like to hit some of the children in your care? Do you think that will help your teaching?

Fortunately, Corporal Punishment is alive, well and perfectly legal in at least some states. State and Federal Government haven't made it illegal to raise our own kids......yet. Corporal Punishment is still legal in the schools here too, as far as I know. It's rarely, if ever used...but still permissible the last I heard.

My attitude is very simple. If the state would like to tell me how I can and cannot raise my own child.....OUTSIDE of circumstances of physical injury or health ..... Then they can just pay for the whole package too. I mean, if I'm to be subject to the commands and dictates of a Government across the Continent from me...PAYING for all they are now taking control of, from my, is the least they can do a long with it.

I'm not asking for them to carry my water....in fact, I'd just prefer the state keep it's big nose clear out of the business of raising children. This idea that "It takes a village" is a VERY RECENT development...contrary to the myths they seem to be pushing by implying this is old and we're all fools not to accept with open arms.

Well... I'll accept nanny state opinions about child rearing when they show they can even handle national business without busting our nation into total bankruptcy both morally and financially.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Does it suffice? Due to the lack of discipline follow through at my GF's school...donate a can of food is a get out of jail free card...we came up a plan over summer called the times out table. She teaches math; so the punishment was the student has to sit at the times out table in the back corner of the room, and complete math worksheets until the end of class; if they disrupted from there, they got a long form...which means you get to go home for a few days. So seeing that table it was like the paddle...no one wanted to go there. There was order for 3 weeks; word got around about the times out table. The administrator said; you cannot use this as a punishment, it singles the child out...lol of all things. We know teenagers fear peer judgement more than anything...oh don't single them out.

So the times out table had to go even though it never got used; the very next day when it was gone, the students tested the water...where's the times out table? Soon the rumor was spread nothing to fear back there waiting looming. Things got right back to defiance; shirking classroom rules etc.

people want to blame the teachers; their hands are literally tied to do anything. So these other kids that dont try and make everything as a joke and mockery...keep the kids not like that from learning. Teachers have to stop class more than once nowadays, until they reach a point where they can reach the second degree where an administrator can be called. Other wise it's hours; my GF says no I am not staying after school you spend hours for me during lunch.

I think fear of something is the key...the paddle was universal. Unless there were deeper problems...then parents were investigated that's how it was in my day.

reply to post by spangledbanner


Exercise horrible? Sports make you run laps...I don't see a difference.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


It is in my GF's school too; but it isn't a simple task of spank and sit down. There are legal steps that must be followed to the letter. The parent also has to sign a legal wavier allowing it, and a lot of legal tape...and teachers etc. cannot mention, hint or suggest they do in any way shape or form.

Corporal in my day was; you disrupt class you got taken in the hall; punished. End of story, parental consent wasn't needed, nor was the punishment reported except as a grade S for satisfactory conduct or a U for unsatisfactory.

I agree that something must give when it comes to our kids and our rights as parents to discipline them accordingly. I don't see nothing wrong with a smack on the arse though it is something I have never done to my kids. What gets me is that people have used actual child abuse (unacceptable abuse) to destroy the punishment side of things. What can parents do these days? Smack your child, risk being arrested and losing your child or sit back and tell them which most of the time will not sink in..

Someone here in Australia has started a group to try and bring corporal punish back after a few kids pushed a disabled person out of a wheel chair. The leader of the group who I'm pretty sure is trying to become a political party was from Singapore and recalls when he stepped out of line over in Asia. He copped the few lashing for what ever he done and reckoned he never stepped out of line again.. It may seem cruel but if it works, maybe we can straighten out a few little turds who think they can run around doing as they choose without punishment. I think the thought of something like a lashing would swirl around there heads a few times before they decided to do something stupid..

reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness

Indeed... I came a bit after those days of the Coach actually using the paddle with the holes all drilled out for speed and airflow. Err.. Nasty looking thing they had on the wall when I was in school. California had long since done away with physical discipline in any form. Of course I didn't have to bring a gun to school just to feel I would leave that day alive either.....kids there now do.

I'm guess things were a bit different in other ways too, eh? When I was in school, cussing to the wrong teacher would just get a kid decked. (Unofficially of course) Period....and damned if anyone ever saw a thing when I saw it happen a couple times. Coaches weren't marshmallows back then and telling one to shove it...got painful for some. lol... They probably learned valuable lessons about respect though, too.

You know the problem I've found with spanking though and this wasn't the case when I was a kid? The kids these days..my own included..adapt and learn to simply not care SO quickly..it's a running fight and race to stay ahead with new discipline that DOES have an impact. Heck, spanking would be fine if it worked reliably...but it doesn't.

reply to post by DarknStormy


Singapore? Isn't that the land of canning? Adults get corporal punishment there not just kids...my freind that works as a security guard wrote something called if were king of the world; here's my plan...no it had nothing to do with the titanic. He had canning...he said the fear of the paddle kept me in line in school. I said whip adults? He said yep, why fine them and make them lose work or get free meals and a hotel at our expense for small stuff? Every weekday public canning right down at the courthouse, as an example.

A bit extreme, for me...but some here may agree.

reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness


they should bring out
the stocks too...

with a bushel of rotten tomatoes

not to sure how
I feel about it

Originally posted by BigBrotherDarkness
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

Does it suffice?

Emphatically....NO.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Thats exactly why at the end of this rant; I suggest fear was the motivation to behave in these cases. The paddle was universal...you knew what it did and you knew what it was used for, no other questions needed. So is it weird that fear creates a pseudo respect? Even if it is fake, eventually assimilation happens to follow rules out of habit. The phrase we have two options the easy way or the hard way just popped in my mind...life is complicated enough; why complicate things further? I don't like fishing licenses because fishing just got complicated...I could understand; if I pulled way more than personal use and sold them. But I cannot decimate a whole population of fish with a rod and a weekend a couple of times a year. Laws like those get my goat; otherwise I have no interest in making my life more complicated by breaking laws and rules that make sense.

I don't think the teachers should, or even be expected to, inflict punishments on he children. What they should do is document the transgression and notify the parents with the amount of a fine indicated. Failure to pay the fine in a given amount of time would result in a warrant being issued for both parents regardless of their current marital status. This would shift the responsibility for disciplining the kids directly onto the parents with an incentive to do so.

Rough idea there, so anyone that would like to refine it, feel free.

Originally posted by spangledbanner

Originally posted by smyleegrl
The only negative consequences I can give my children are as follows:

* silent lunch
* walk laps during recess
* call a parent


None of those are going to make a kid choose to behave over misbehavior. But its all I've got.

You make them walk laps? I think that is horrible.

Would you like to hit some of the children in your care? Do you think that will help your teaching?

I can't take away their recess time, they NEED to be physically active. So the punishment is they have to walk laps instead of playing with their friends.

I have used corporal discipline in my tenure as a teacher. I've used it twice; both times, I only did it once for the entire school year. And guess what....the kids those years knew how to behave.

reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness


Now that I think about it, that name rings a bell... I think it could be an option with the consent of parents.. I mean if they cannot do it with being punished themselves, why not allow someone to do it lawfully? It does sound cruel but how else will they really learn?

The thing with adults is they should know better and I think the system gives adults the opportunity to buckle up or have a holiday.. Some adults would love a good flogging also as sick as it sounds

reply to post by N3k9Ni


This is a good idea, except you have parents who honestly don't care. They don't care, they aren't involved, they aren't inconvenienced by such measures.

I don't know what the solution is. I don't like corporal punishment, but it was more effective (when used correctly) than what I have today. The problem is....its so easily abused.

reply to post by N3k9Ni


I don't know about that one.. But I did hear talk of parents doing the punishment for their children behavior, crime etc.. I find that pretty harsh though because it really isn't teaching the kid anything.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
reply to post by N3k9Ni

 

This is a good idea, except you have parents who honestly don't care. They don't care, they aren't involved, they aren't inconvenienced by such measures.

I don't know what the solution is. I don't like corporal punishment, but it was more effective (when used correctly) than what I have today. The problem is....its so easily abused.

That's why there needs to be a monetary fine imposed on the parents. I'm sure that, after paying a few fines and/or spending time in jail, the parents will begin to take notice and be more concerned about how their child behaves.

reply to post by N3k9Ni


Very interesting suggestion; it holds the parent(s) accountable...parents usually blame the teachers. It is a teachers job to teach...but now they have to become prison guards because parents have trouble teaching their kids. Granted some kids wait til the get to show to show out...but fines and parental responsibility would nip that quickly.