Dunblane School Massacre....ended handgun rights in UK

reply to post by Logarock


I live in England and as long as you know the right person and have the cash, a gun is easy to get.
Trouble is, getting hold of a clean one costs a lot more, but if you feel like you need one in a hurry, it probably won't matter to you.

Handguns? "handguns are made for killin' they ain't no good for nothing else"

reply to post by Logarock


I've never gone looking for a handgun, but in places like London and Mancheater, it would be very easy indeed to get a handgun on the black market. A blank firing pistol called the Olympic Six was banned because it was easy to convert and several had been used in shootings. It may have been called the Olympic Eight, actually. Either way, it was banned because it could be converted. The Sun newspaper did an article about how you could go to France and buy blank guns that could be converted to fire live rounds, and bring them back easily. I can't remember the numbers, but several guns either used or confiscated had come from France and were originally blank firers.

As for going and buying a gun, chances are it would be a converted blank firer. I should imagaine if you went to tge right area in, lets say, London, and started asking teenagers where you could get a gun from, you would eithrr end up with a gun, or get mugged by them and have the money you were going to spend on a gun taken.

This isn't The Sun article, but still shows guns are easy to get hold of.
m.guardian.co.uk...

Originally posted by SprocketUK
reply to post by Logarock

 

I live in England and as long as you know the right person and have the cash, a gun is easy to get.
Trouble is, getting hold of a clean one costs a lot more, but if you feel like you need one in a hurry, it probably won't matter to you.

What sort of charges come on you if you are found to have a handgun?

reply to post by Logarock


I'm not sure, but I seem to remember 5 years being the minimum for possession. Obviously that'll go up if you use it or even threaten to.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by SpearMint

 

why are you conveniently forgetting that guns also SAVE ppl and more often than not.
how many cars do that ?

Ever heard of Ambulances?

and alcohol ?? yeah, sure, right.

Anti-Septic?

Good Strawman augument though.

Originally posted by KingIcarus

...For me - and this won't be popular on here

- socialised healthcare is the best way to make America safer, but keep the guns. Crazy people would be better cared for, poor people would worry less about their health needs and expenses and commit less violent gun crime. I suspect poverty is a big trigger in mental illness too, actually, but I couldn't back that up.

Of course, this wouldn't solve things entirely, but I do think it'd improve matters.

*opens can of worms*

Yeah, wouldn't it be great if we could end poverty and provide "free" healthcare to all. (I like unicorns & rainbows too.) Except that nothing is free. The US has been waging a "War on Poverty" since the Johnson Administration and things have just gotten steadily worse, not better.

The fact is the US is broke and growing deeper in debt by the minute.

Our only real hope to dig our way out of this mess, was to unleash free enterprise.

Businesses create jobs, jobs that, in turn, create revenue for the US coffers that could have strengthened the US Dollar by lowering the interest rate we pay on our debt and by paying down the debt.

Full coffers are needed to fund social programs.

Since the Left-wingers and the ignorant re-elected Obama, that hope is dead.

As for why there is so much mental illness, that is such a complicated issue I'm not prepared to go into it at this moment. Consider some contributing factors:

The shattered family.
Poor parenting.
Poor diet & poisoned water.
Powerful psychotropic medication routinely prescribed to children & adolescents.
No ethical or moral training in the home or school.
*Violence on TV, in movies, in computer games.*
Growing overcrowding, growing poverty, and increasingly deteriorating environments to grow up in.

I think much has been intentionally orchestrated over the decades to destroy the common man and to create the NWO slave without moral boundaries.

And of course, the NWO shills will use this latest "outburst" to push for more gun control.

Personally, I think if the staff had been armed (gun-trained, of course), fewer people would have died.
Maybe no one but the shooter would have died.

The Cumbria rampager, like all the rest, was a victim of MK-Ultra mind control:

6-2-10 Cumbria Rampage, Taxi driver Derrick Bird, 52
eyewitnesses:
"He didn’t speak. He seemed dazed, as if he was in another world...”
"He was staring straight ahead, completely vacant and without emotion."
Before the shooting: "He just seemed to be in another world. He didn't seem himself. ... That last time I saw him he was like a zombie."

reply to post by muse7


I own a gun, and it does not deprive me of any of this, or my kids of schools. People do that, because they are sick and cruel. Guns are a means to an end. The people are the navigators to that end.

Now, with that said, I agree that no parent should ever have to go through the loss of their child in any way. Ever! However, people are the problem. Always have been and always will be...plain and simple.

reply to post by Logarock


Quite true. Look at our drug laws. No one ever takes illegal drugs.

Look at NYC where guns are outlawed inside city limits. No one ever gets shot there.

My point here is no matter the law, just remember that people will find a way to obtain and carry out what they want.

reply to post by starviego


Absolute bollocks, I knew Derrick Bird, and it wasn't long before the incident he seemed fine.

There was a number of things that led to him snapping, being programmed by the government wasn't one of them.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
America needs to ask itself why Switzerland, who is similarly armed to the teeth, doesn't have the problems America has.

Despite the fact Switzerland only has 7 million inhabitants we do have problems with our firearms.

Zug massacre
en.wikipedia.org...

We have shootings and people killed every year with those damn military guns and a lot of Swiss are fed up with the whole situation including me.

reply to post by woogleuk

Well Birdy didn't have money problems. He was living a lifestyle way beyond what a cab driver could afford. Where was he getting all his cash?

Getting back to Dunblane, one of the first persons on scene was an off-duty cop who had a kid at the school. He reported seeing four guns next to the suspects body, not two like the official version.

Here is the real reason for all these mass killings:

5-28-75 Centennial Secondary School
"The Globe and Mail demands that the “government . . . get off its butt” and introduce tougher ‘gun control’ laws. " "The proposals were recommended for legislation and passed. "

12-6-89 Ecole Poytechnique
"The 1989 massacre also prompted the introduction of new gun-control measures, including the controversial gun registry.."

3-13-96 Dunblane Primary School
Bristish gun laws were made much more stringent in the wake of the shootings.

4-28-96 Port Arthur/Broad Arrow Cafe
Stringent anti-gun regulations for Australians were enacted in the wake of this shooting.

2-28-97 North Hollywood Bank Shootout
This incident was used as an excuse for the LAPD and then law enforcement across the country to "armor up" with heavier weapons, armoured vehicles, body armor, etc.

3-28-98 Westside Middle School
"...Federal Emergency Management Agency officials will help develop a national program to combat school violence in the aftermath of shootings at Westside Middle School near Jonesboro and other schools around the country, an agency official said Friday.

4-20-99 Columbine
"Congress under then president Bill Clinton sought to pass several gun control measures in response..."
"One week after the Columbine shootings, President Clinton introduced legislation requiring background checks on sales of explosives and holding parents liable when their children commit crimes with guns. Whitehouse Press Secretary Joe Lockhart said: "Clinton is counting on outrage over the shootings to help push the legislation through, unfortunately oftentimes it takes tragic events to catalyze work here in Washington" "

12-26-00 Wakefield/ Edgewater Massacre
"...gun control advocates held a rally outside the State House to urge lawmakers to ban the sale of assault weapons like McDermott's."

4-26-02 Gutenburg Gymansium
"....two hours after the attack, Germany's parliament jumped into action and immediately tightened the nation's weapons laws."

10-11-02 Myyrmanni Mall bombing
"The Social Democrats seized the opportunity to intensify efforts to censor Internet news groups, bulletin boards and websites. A bill already going through parliament is seeking to extend restrictions on freedom of speech on the Internet."

5-11-06 Antwerp Street Shooting
"Belgian lawmakers passed strict new gun control laws in 2006 in reaction to the racially motivated shooting deaths of a toddler and her black baby sitter in Antwerp."

11-7-07 Jokela High School
"Such a tragedy in the normally peaceful Nordic nation should make Finland reconsider its campaign against European Union plans to tighten gun ownership laws for youngsters, a senior cabinet member told Reuters."

3-11-09 Winnenden/Albertville-Realschule
"The German government has agreed to curb gun rights, two months after a 17-year-old killed 15 people with a pistol taken from his father’s bedroom..."

4-10-09 OAED Vocational College
"...an unprecedented incident for Greece that fueled debate about laws governing gun ownership..."

4-30-09 State Oil Academy
"The Azerbajaini Parliament's Standing Human Rights Commission chair Rabiyyat Aslanova said that security must be increased in higher schools.... Aslanova said that cameras must be installed at the entrance to universities...."

8-3-09 LA Fitness Club Shooting
"Gov. Ed Rendell called it "another senseless shooting and a tragic shooting. It's a case where someone who clearly shouldn't have had a firearm because of mental problems had a firearm." "
[Though not an overt call to change the gun laws, the threat of government action is implied in this statement.]

11-26-09 Pecs University
"(Justice Minister Tibor) Draskovics said that Hungary's laws on the possession of firearms had to be reviewed to see if any tightening is necessary."

6-2-10 Cumbria taxi rampage
"The government has promised to lead a national debate on the gun laws with MPs debating the issue before the end of July."
"If we are looking for what the problem is, it is clearly that in our society we have a huge number of guns that we need to get rid of." --David Cameron, Prime Minister

7-22-11 Norway/Utoya shooting
http://(nolink)/2011/07/28/oslo-terror-attacks-justify-sinister-cyber-surveillance-programs-44591/
In a knee-jerk reaction, that can only be compared to actions taken by U.S. bureaucrats in the wake of the 9/11 terror attacks, politicians and law enforcement officials across Europe have joined in a growing chorus to demand legislation be enacted to require extensive spying on the online activities of citizens.

4-7-11 Tasso da Oliveira Municipal School, Brazil
--The House of Deputies has accelerated the progress of a project that requires the nstallation of metal detectors in all schools in Brazil.
--The decision of the President of the Senate to propose a new national referendum on banning the sale of firearms and ammunition in the country comes four days after the tragedy at the Municipal School Tasso da Silveira...
"I think Congress should examine the law of disarmament and once again fight for a ban on arms sales in Brazil. That is: zero tolerance for weapons, " Sarney said early on Friday, arriving in the Senate.

This is obviously for soul sacrifice. Nothing to see here move on. Way too many school shootings, it is obvious.

reply to post by starviego


He did have money problems, he hadn't been declaring all his income to the tax office and was bricking it that he would be sent to jail.

That plus his family were (allegedly) trying to screw him out of his dads will. The solicitor involved (and shot dead) was Kevin Commons, and where he is involved, it doesn't surprise me, my Uncle was on the verge of suicide a good few years back because Commons was trying to sue him over a planning application. My Uncle was looking at tens of thousands of pounds fine, luckily my Uncle won the case. I am sat just 200metres away from Commons office, I can see it now out of my window, it just makes me shudder, he was a vile horrid, money obsessed man, he is the only one of the victims of the shootings I didn't shed a tear for.

But the overall point is, Bird had access to those weapons legally, had he not, I very much doubt the shootings would have happened. I can't say much for big cities and access to illegal firearms, but up here in Cumbria, with the exception of air rifle related stuff, you rarely hear of gun crime......except the stuff on the news from further down south.

Originally posted by tdk84
I dont think you can compare USA with the UK and commonwealth counties. You got to remember how young the USA is.

For example the UK started restriction on guns and crossbows in the 1500's and has evolved ever since. That's a 100 years before USA was even a country.

It will take time.

*edit* sorry closer to 300 years before?

edit on 17-12-2012 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)

wow you don't know much about history do ya? you must understand why the United States Constitution gives explicit rights to own firearms... you must read the Deceleration if Independence sometime.

UK and the British Church State of course wanted peoples right to defend themselves against a tyrannical government taken away from the people. The British are renown worldwide for their colonialism and I believe hated above any other nation on this planet.

Handguns are dangerous though imo...

i,m not going to argue with americans on their gun culture cause i,ve tried and they just don,t want to listen to sense.

i will never understand the mentality,all them kids get shot cause the shooters mother was a gun fanatic so he has easy access to multiple weapons.......whats americans answer to the shooting? everyone goes out and stocks up on guns......utter madness.

reply to post by sparky31


that's pretty funny coming from a tiny island nation in which the sun used to never set on their empire... Americans mentality with gun ownership is directly related to freedom and a militia which stands in defense of states rights. In fact militias have been on the largest increase this nation has ever experienced in just the last 4 years.

yes the sun is setting on the remaining 45 million inhabitants of some tiny island who think they are the world... even UK's own government can not stop what lays in your future. There are nearly 360 million inhabitants of all nationalities which call themselves Americans, Brits only count their nationals in their head count, even if they don't live on the island haha.

I hope you'all like speaking Urdu that's all I have to say...

reply to post by KingIcarus

Thank goodness that the Brits banned guns. Because it goes without saying that guns are the problem, not individuals.

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S..

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed. Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by sparky31

 

that's pretty funny coming from a tiny island nation in which the sun used to never set on their empire... Americans mentality with gun ownership is directly related to freedom and a militia which stands in defense of states rights. In fact militias have been on the largest increase this nation has ever experienced in just the last 4 years.

yes the sun is setting on the remaining 45 million inhabitants of some tiny island who think they are the world... even UK's own government can not stop what lays in your future. There are nearly 360 million inhabitants of all nationalities which call themselves Americans, Brits only count their nationals in their head count, even if they don't live on the island haha.

I hope you'all like speaking Urdu that's all I have to say...

edit on 17-12-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)

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