Armed teachers in schools?

Originally posted by Slade88green
reply to post by anglodemonicmatrix

 

These are not military grade weapons, just standard. And the person using them was not allowed to use them. It didn't help.
Quick question, you say you haven't had a school gun massacre since the gun ban took effect. Did you have any school gun massacres before it took effect?

Getting rid of guns doesn't work either. Read the morning news about the 20 kids attacked with a knife in China. China has been having a string of knife attacks at schools. China has had a huge rash of knife attacks at schools.

No our mass shootings were not school shootings one thing about the Chinese attack however THEY ARE ALL STILL ALIVE.

reply to post by pretty_vacant


People keep mentioning Australia as having no school shootings after their gun ban, but I am still looking for any record of school shootings there before their gun ban. I have yet to find any. If anyone has a link to any news of such it would help.

As far as not wanting teachers armed. We have tried having them not armed. We banned guns from school zones. This has not worked, its time to try a different route.

reply to post by anglodemonicmatrix


In this incident they are all still alive, though some are in critical condition. In many of the past attacks there, the children did not fair as well. I wish violence would simply stop against children.

Originally posted by Slade88green
[People keep mentioning Australia as having no school shootings after their gun ban, but I am still looking for any record of school shootings there before their gun ban. I have yet to find any. If anyone has a link to any news of such it would help.

That statement is incorrect anyway.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Australian response to it by doubling penalties on the existing bans and such, is also pointless, and will not stop it from reoccurring.

Here is a relatively full list of mass killing in AU

en.wikipedia.org...

Some of the most deadly ones did not involve firearms at all.

And one to one comparison is not really valid anyway. Australia only has 20 million or so people. You would have to have 15 mass killings in the US for every mass killing in Australia for the crimes per capita to equal.

No amount of laws or penalties is going to work. When a psycho goes into a school to shoot and kill people, he knows he won't be coming back out. Not one single mass shooter in a situation like this has ever lived to tell about it or be punished for it. They know going in that they will die.

The question is, how many will they kill before they die? If there are responsible adults there that are armed and ready to protect others, fewer will die than if there aren't responsible adults there that are armed and ready to protect others.

I'm not saying "arm everybody", not at all. That would be a nightmare as well. I'm definitely not saying "don't allow anyone to be armed" that, as we see is also a nightmare. People rant and rave about the "middle of the road", but the middle of the road is the safest place, it's the place where we spend 99% of our time, it's the strongest place, the smoothest place, the safest place, the defining place. Extremism is bad in either direction. Moderation IS the key, it IS the answer and it is the only way to move forward.

Look at it this way. When was the last time an armed psycho walked into a police station and killed 30 people before help arrived.

reply to post by Mr Tranny


Thank you for the links, they were most helpful.

Originally posted by Slade88green
reply to post by charlyv

 

I highly doubt police will be added to schools. Unfortunately police have been being laid off due to lack of funds all over the nation. Towns and states simply cant afford to put police in every school.

People have strayed from being a polite society to one of near anarchy. No one says hi to their neighbors, most don't even know their neighbors names. People don't look each other in the face while walking down the street. If you do, the people that you look at give you dirty looks. People need to adopt the caring standard that has been lost for so long. Help your fellow man. How many of you have seen someone broken down on the side of the road and just passed by like everyone else. I have even seen people flip people off that were broken down for slowing down traffic. More laws will not fix the problems, compassion and understanding still have a chance. I know not much of a chance, but something has to give.

edit on 15-12-2012 by Slade88green because: typing error

I understand how you feel, but you are living in a dream world. We, as a collective society in the U.S. are way out of equilibrium with the values that you transcribe as being a majority in the population. It is too easy now for the minority that is evil to cause great damage to those that try to live a responsible life. Caring and compassion are values for people that are happy and thinking responsibly.

You just have to look at the kind of security in most of Europe presently, as they were forced into this long ago, and it was just a matter of time before this terrorist behavior started to become viral here. Evil people in the U.S. have learned the power of terrorism,, and now that the cat is out of the bag, there is no going back. Maximum security is required, and there is really no reasonable argument against it, certainly not in these recent events.

reply to post by charlyv


I don't live in a dream world, I dream of living in that dream world. I don't think maximum security is needed, just trained and armed teachers/ teachers aids. I also an a huge fan of the cc laws that Michigan just passed.

reply to post by Slade88green


No..That is not the real solution..Instead of gun..Train teacher to use tazer or something..Pepper spray..etc..Yea..Its sound funny but just imagine IF ALL OF US HAVE GUNS including teacher..What will happen?We will shooting to each other and place like elementary schools will become battleground between so called "Good" and "Evil"..This is the worst and idea i ever heard..Like or not..Seems like the end of humanity is near if this situation continues..

Originally posted by GregJ
We will shooting to each other and place like elementary schools will become battleground between so called "Good" and "Evil"..This is the worst and idea i ever heard..

By default, a battle ground with both sides armed is better than a one sided killing field where only the bad guys have the guns.

At least the good guy has a chance at winning.

Originally posted by Slade88green
reply to post by SweetChild

 

More people die by cars every year then by guns. Lets make cars illegal and jail people that have their cars stolen because they aren't responsible car owners.

These kinds of nonsensical straw arguments are why gun nuts need to be disarmed.

Perhaps arming the teachers directly is not the ultimate solution. But the schools could certainly employ plain clothed off duty law enforcement officers who are armed. They could hire retired law enforcement officers or Military as well. Arm them with a concealed handgun and give them access to a locked quick access vault to arm themselves with a Shotgun or Carbine if necessary as well...

Plenty of options to rationally discuss down the road. The gun free/victim zone topic certainly needs to be addressed... First responders are critical in so many ways from First Aid/Trauma to Active Shooter scenarios. Why not hire those who are already trained... Then allow teachers, who have legal permits, to carry on campus as well. Simple Force multiplier against these crazed lone gunmen who continue to prey on the defenseless.

Time to change the game in order to change the outcome. If these sickos know they will be met with force perhaps they may just reconsider their evil decision.

reply to post by Slade88green



I have a unique perspective being my wife is a teacher at an elementary school. I,myself am a retired military officer and we'll versed in removing a threat.I will make this short. Arming teachers in an elementary school is not really a good idea, I could make a list as to why, but It comes down to one simple fact, most teacher will not pull the trigger on the threat, because they are trained as teachers, need I say more.

The best solution is very well professionally trained armed personal and a well thought out defense/ escaped plan for the entire school. Keep in mind one plan does not fit all schools, each school is designed different . Each school would need a customized plan according to it's number of students, structure design etc.

Now after the event in CT. I asked my wife about the schools plan on lock down. Let me just say this, it is a Pi** Poor plan, not to mention that very same plan applies to all schools in the district. The district does have a small police force, but they are few and could never responded to the threat in time . There police force is armed, but keeps the 9mm locked in the trunk! By order of the school board , Wtf.

The real talk in my wifes school among the teachers. We Want Protection!

Now , the principle of the school wants to be armed, but not the staff. The teachers do not want to be armed , so my wife says. They want trained armed personal, not rent a cops with 9mm and would prefer former military personal with no head problems. That reasoning is based on there police force being rent a cops with little training and have proven so far ineffective to any threat.

My plan is reduce or dissolved the TSA and place security where in really counts, our schools. Our teachers face threats everyday. My wife had to call the regular police to get this kid to give up his knife, 3rd grader on the playground. ( this was another challenged kid )

I quote my wife, " its not the guns, it's these parents getting lawyers to sue for approval to have there severely disturbed mentally challenged kids put in regular classrooms, this has got to stop , my friend now has broken arm because of this . My classroom is not a test lab for some psychologist looking to get published"

My wife tells me everyday about the events at her school. There all violent in nature and each one involves a mentally challenged kid. Keep in mind this is a elementary school!