Armed teachers in schools?

First and foremost my prayers go out to those in Connecticut.

Just a question to post to the populous. Should America train and arm teachers so they can better defend our children from crimes such as today's school shooting? School shootings are not just an American problem. Many countries suffer from school violence. Some have adopted policies to stop that violence. Israel in the 1970's started arming teachers aids with semi-auto firearms. School violence is non existent in Israel. Thailand adopted this policy in 2004. School violence has dropped drastically in Thailand. Germany is considering adopting the policy as well to quell violence at their schools.
Something must be done to protect our children. Those that would say make guns illegal...criminals don't obey the laws. I vote yes to training and arming teachers.

Link
USA today link

Links to a few articles talking about arming teachers.

I thought that's why they had "resource" officers. Apparently, they aren't resourceful enough. Sure, i think a teacher or two should be allowed to carry. But what is one teacher going to do when he/she is in one part of the school, and a massacre is happening at the other end? Most of the killers shoot themselves, anyway eventually, so will it really make a different, if only to make *some* people feel more secure?

As an aside, i just saw on ABC World News, and they were talking about the security precautions that some feel *should* be in place now, which is scarily reminiscent of prisons and a police state: they spoke of locked doors, surveillance cameras at entrances, having to show ID if one is not know and not identified *through* the surveillance camera in order to get in. Talk about the school to prison pipeline, it's just conditioning our children to both accept the police state (what with check points, etc), and prison.

reply to post by Slade88green


I've been thinking about this all day since I have been on many threads defending the second amendment. These events bring the commies out of the woodwork.

I think we'd have to look at what these other countries are doing and how they make it work. Keep in mind the cultural differences as well.

The thought of having loaded guns around small children is a bit bothersome, even for a staunch constitutionalist such as myself, so you'd have to put measures in place to assure that the guns are always secure. Extensive training for the ones carrying in schools or something. They would need to be held to a very high standard of professionalism and given psychological exams, even. Also, I think that if you are going to go down that road you'd need to make sure there are enough armed people on campus that could neutralize someone quickly if they decided to go off the deep end.

What an absurd conversation.

Only in America.

I could never carry a gun. It goes against my personality. If I was required to carry a gun in order to teach....that would be the end of my teaching career.

Teachers aren't trained law enforcers. We could severely screw up a hostage situation.

And what if one of the children managed to disarm the teacher?

Not a good idea, me thinks.

reply to post by spangledbanner


As the links show, its not"only in America" Israel has had armed teachers since the 70's Thailand since 2004 and Germany is now considering.

Absolutely NOT! Schools are to educate! How about some serious control laws and better mental health care? How about banning semi automatic weapons? How about making guns hard to get?

reply to post by SweetChild


They did that in China, this is the result.
Link

Another link

reply to post by smyleegrl


I agree. Teacher's are under enough stress without having to worry about taking care of a loaded weapon as well as everything else.
Most schools have resident police officers in every building. Even schools that don't have school nurses have armed police officers in my state. They have metal detectors for students to go through as they enter the building, there are people to check their bags and purses and if the detector goes off, there are wands to find out exactly what went off. The outside doors are locked at all times.
I do think that armed officers should be required in all schools. Apparently that school didn't have one, perhaps it was the laws of the state, I don't know.
If there are teachers who are ex military or teachers who have been police officers or teachers who would voluntarily go through special training and followup several times a year, then fine, they could be authorized to carry a secured weapon. But other teachers who are not comfortable with it or don't want to should never be required to do so.
I want all people in the school to be protected at all times, but I don't think putting more pressure on the already overwhelmed teachers would be the answer.

On top of that, we've all had teachers back in high school that we wouldn't want to trust with a loaded gun. Teachers are human too and some of them have endured past their point of snapping mentally. They just aren't a danger to anyone because they're not walking around with a loaded gun. I do respect the teachers I've had and the people who dedicate their lives to teaching, but remember, not everyone that holds a position every year is really cut out to be a teacher. It may be their year that they realize that career isn't for them, we don't want them to be carrying a gun when they realize it.

reply to post by Slade88green

Armed security for schools - just like banks. Bank tellers are not packing so neither should teachers.

Come to think of it, you'd have to get this idea past the teachers union. What chance of success do you think you'd have with that?

Perhaps some architectural considerations that aren't too prison-like.. Classroom doors that open into the hallways that are accessible by keycards from the outside but unlocked from the inside?

The thing that bothers me is that this kid had to be buzzed in, and he was carrying 2 handguns. His mother was a teacher there so he was probably familiar to the staff and they just let him in like they always did. That is certainly a unique facet of this situation.

By the way, to all the anti-assault weapon bots - Reports have said the AR15 was in his trunk. He didn't use it.

reply to post by NinjaKitteh


You make a good point on teacher responsibilities. I am not advocating forcing teachers to carry. I'm advocating training and arming those that are willing. I agree that a mental health check may have to be required.
As far as the officers protecting schools where you are, are they in the elementary schools as well, or just the high schools?

If not armed with firearms, what about arming teachers with tasers like many police use. With training of course and held to the highest standards.

Originally posted by spangledbanner
What an absurd conversation.

Only in America.

Almost as absurd as the conversation about a sociopath killing an entire kindergarten class because his mommy was mean to him.

YES.

Armed school staff with proper TRAINING will STOP THIS CRAP!!!!!!!!

These madmen shooters will NOT go anywhere that has ARMED folks in the immediate area as they know that they will NOT GET FAR into their sick little mission.

This CRAP ALWAYS HAPPENS IN PLACES WHERE GUNS ARE NOT ALLOWED!! We need to put an END to places that do not allow for ARMED law-abiding citizens who are PROPERLY TRAINED for using firearms.

We simply cannot have COPS in every classroom and in every hallway across America, so we need a BETTER IDEA. And thats where LAW-ABIDING everyday folks like you and I complete with PROPER FIREARM TRAINING enter the equation.

CRIMINALS WILL ALWAYS HAVE GUNS AND WILL ALWAYS USE THEM, AND FOR SOME REASON THESE SHOOTINGS ALWAYS SEEM TO HAPPEN WHERE NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO BE ARMED... Hmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!

First of all, my thoughts and meditations go out to all those affected by this heinous tragedy.

_________

I think it's time to have a rational and honest discussion about this.

I personally think that in certain schools in certain "high risk" districts, that all teachers should be trained to use small arms and be required to carry them at all times (I understand that this school was deemed to be in one of the "safest areas" of the country, but I think starting it at a few "test districts" would be a step in the right direction).

Those quick to demonize the 2nd Amendment and arms supporters would do well to leave emotions out of the equation for even a second. You take away even more rights to the people that can legally own firearms, you end up having only dirt bags with firearms. That's the honest truth. Look at the statistics. It's all there in black and white.

To be honest, if I were to ever to return to the education field (which more and more it looks like I won't), I would be more than willing to undergo the training to make sure that my students were safe. Teachers are the first line of defense to ignorance and maybe it's time that we were the first line of defense to the dirt bags that shoot up elementary schools.

Events like this will keep happening. It's human nature.

There is no way to "prevent" these types of things from happening. There's no amount of "prevention" without becoming a McCarthy-ism type of society. These random acts of violence will unfortunately keep happening. It's human nature, and no amount of prevention will stop these things. The best we can do is keep those families affected in our thoughts and prayers.

Sometimes I really think that we need a "reset" of sorts in this world.

I'll be looking for guidance and reflection in the stars tonight, because, as an elementary school regular substitute teacher, this hit me especially hard. I see all my "little guys' " faces in my mind's eye, and I break down. No child should ever be at the end of the barrel of a gun. Ever.



My $.02.


-TS

Originally posted by Slade88green
reply to post by NinjaKitteh

 

You make a good point on teacher responsibilities. I am not advocating forcing teachers to carry. I'm advocating training and arming those that are willing. I agree that a mental health check may have to be required.
As far as the officers protecting schools where you are, are they in the elementary schools as well, or just the high schools?

I don't know the answer to that. It's been a long time since I was in one of the elementary schools but not as long since I was in High School. Sorry I don't have the answer or even know where to find it.

reply to post by smyleegrl


I understand aversion to carrying or using a firearm; however, I have been in a situation very similar to teaching before. You grow attach to those people who you care for nine months out of the year. You begin to think of them almost as fondly as your own children. You begin to feel a responsibility for those children, much as you do your own. You might say that it is your job to protect them from an attack-like the one that happened in Connecticut. I am sure that a few of those teachers and administrators in that school wished that they had some kind of weapon to end the carnage that they witnessed today. A gun could change that.

reply to post by oper8zhin

OR we can all get chipped and with CC cameras everywhere then someone remotely could disable us via our chip. No. Not a good idea. I favor armed school security guards and locked buildings.

Originally posted by Slade88green
If not armed with firearms, what about arming teachers with tasers like many police use. With training of course and held to the highest standards.

I think that would be much more acceptable and easy than guns would be. I can imagine a lot more teachers would be comfortable with the taser than with a gun. Some wouldn't want either, but a lot that wouldn't want a gun would be much more likely to accept or even want to have a taser.