December 21st, 2012 11:11am GMT - Snapshot from Earth and Sun.

Originally posted by RizeorDie
reply to post by swan001

 

who cares whether you like or dislike phage, this thread isn't about how much we like phage

if you have nothing useful to add apart from disagreeing then be gone

lol I don't care about contributing to Phage's growing fan club, as fan clubs are not the purpose of this site. I care about the truth.

If you (not you RizeorDie, but "you" fans) like Phage so much, why not try and study physics a bit? That way you'll still survive when the poor man logs off.

Irregardless of what ends up happening or not - this winter solstice - 12.21.12 - is the end of the age of pisces, and the beginning of the age of aquarius. In my opinion, the whole Mayan calendar thing ends because it's describing a cycle - or a loop - a "circle", in a circle, there is no actual "beginning" or "end" - the beginning IS the end. After all, the calendar is in the shape of a circle isn't it?

I would not be at all surprised if if some people committed suicide, just because nothing actually happened, I don't think the earth itself will end, well, it ends when you die, but the actual earth will be here for another five billion years, humans wont, (wars, plague, meteoric strike, genetic decay, evolution, etc) so yes, we will see, eventually!

reply to post by tigercat1971


my reply was not about the facts or whatever. it's about how people interact. I don't really care about the subject at hand I only replyed since I saw the same act as in every thread he is posting. cocky and arrogant. every single time, that's the only thing that bothers me not how you said, the facts.

And what made you think I was defending the OP?

Simply put, don't try to make my post anything other than what it is, a critic regarding the way Phage and a couple of other people while we are at it, are acting.

reply to post by kobewan69


I think you've just proven my point.

reply to post by swan001


Woah, settle. I don't remember the OP saying it would trigger the end of the world.

Ok let me try and say something.

The alignments of the planets,sun,dark rift ETC are all being talked about. Whether these are happening perfectly or not is not for me to say. (I haven't checked properly for alignments) IF you could soundly clear this up for me, i'd be grateful.

Oh and before i go further. No, i don't believe in the end of the world on that date. I quite frankly have no idea what, if anything will happen any more. The world could end tomorrow for all we know.

But the idea that 2012's alignments being different for some people is because of the Long Count calendar, which im sure you all know about. The fact that the 21st (i think to the 23rd?) is the end of a 5125 year cycle. That just so happens to occur during the Winter Solstice this year. Now, people may believe this is a coincidence that the end of this huge cycle would fall on this solstice when others don't believe with coincidences.

There is, of course, always the idea that the Mayans probably knew more about space than we give them credit for leading many to believe that this can't be just a coincidence that this date would be the end of a 5125 year long age. It doesn't seem like just a random date. And when it comes to Y2K vs 2012. I think the difference is that December 21st is the Winter Solstice coupled with the apparent end of this 5125 year long age/cycle. If i'm wrong please correct me but i don't remember Y2K having any sort of significance with ancient event/alignments other than, of course, it was the big 000 on the end of a 2.

When people argue back and forth about the alignments that will/may? occur i think people seem to forget everything that this date has in terms of it being the end of a cycle/age, Winter Solstice PLUS certain alignments. This would lead me to suggest that this date may not be just a coincidence, and that it does have some sort of significance, when you add it all up and realise what the Mayans might have seen in the sky and why they chose THIS month (in 5 days) which happens to be the Winter Solstice, to be the end of their current age.

You've got to admit, it all seems rather interesting that all these elements go together. I think we can all say for definite that 1) December 21st 2012 is the end of a very long Age and 2) that It's definitely on the Winter solstice. In terms of alignments id love someone to clear up WHAT will align and whether the "On the winter solstice in 2012, the sun will be aligned with the center of the Milky Way for the first time in about 26,000" argument has any truth. And i'm asking someone with an open mind please, not a debunker or a firm believer. You guys give me too much contradiction at times to give me any sort of clear answer in my own head.

We are only a few days away until this happens and i think we should maybe sit back and realise whether everything or nothing happens, we get to be part of the end of 5125 year long age in accordance to the Mayans. And whether that means something or not, is not for us to argue and bicker over. What will be will be, let's just see.

reply to post by MrConspiracy


Even the mayan themselves said to stop interpreting their calendar that way. And I calculated it myself. They are right, the 21/12/12 is not the end... according to their own calendar and date components, the 21/12/12 doesn't translates to 0-0-0-0-0 in mayan calendar, but 0-0-0-0-13.

And please specify what alignement you are refering to. Planets won't be really aligned on that date. If you're refering to the alignment with A*, well, that happens every 365 days on Earth.

Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

It appeared that you linked but the link did not work. Horrible when that happens

Was this the link? January full moon mimics path of July sun

Interesting. I did not know that. Since I can see all settings points of the Sun from my study window I will have to check that out.

Ah HA - I feel vindicated thank you. I knew the moon did tricky sun mimicking things but I just didn't know how to describe it properly.

Furthermore, at midsummer (equinox) in the northern hemisphere the sun sets north of west whereas the full moon sets south of west, but in an equidistant manner (relative to due west). At midwinter the situation is reversed, with the sun setting south of west and the full moon setting north of west.

In this way the setting full moon mimicks the setting sun throughout the year. There. Phage can't always be relied upon to know everything when his aim is simply to prove others wrong.

reply to post by MrConspiracy

That just so happens to occur during the Winter Solstice this year. Now, people may believe this is a coincidence that the end of this huge cycle would fall on this solstice when others don't believe with coincidences.

The Maya were not the only people to note solstices. Most agrarian societies do and did, for very practical reasons.

In terms of alignments id love someone to clear up WHAT will align and whether the "On the winter solstice in 2012, the sun will be aligned with the center of the Milky Way for the first time in about 26,000" argument has any truth.

As has been pointed out, the Sun does not (ever) align with the center of the Milky Way however it does align with the galactic equator, every year. As has been pointed out, this alignment has been occurring on the solstice for decades and will continue to do so. As pointed out, this year is not the most "perfect" such alignment. There is no evidence, other than the circular argument regarding this alignment, that the Maya were aware of precession. There is no evidence, other than the circular argument, that the Maya were aware that this alignment would occur.

What circular argument? The one that says the Maya must have known about precession because the end of the 13th baktun occurs when the Sun is aligned with the galactic equator, so if they knew that was going to happen they must have known about precession. The trouble is, there is nothing else which points to the Maya knowing about precession or that this alignment would be occurring during this time frame, or that the Maya would place any significance on the alignment even if they knew it would happen.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Ah HA - I feel vindicated thank you. I knew the moon did tricky sun mimicking things but I just didn't know how to describe it properly.

Why? It has nothing to do with the solstices. It has nothing to do with the equinoxes. It has nothing to do with the rising or setting points.

Moonrise/Sunset 1/26/2013: 75º/278º
Sunrise/Sunset 7/26/2013: 69º/291º

And it has nothing to do with 12/21/12.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by MrConspiracy

 

The Maya were not the only people to note solstices. Most agrarian societies do and did, for very practical reasons.

I never said they were the only ones. And i am aware of the practical reason behind the acknowledgment of Solstices. However, I was merely pointing out that the December 21st date doesn't seem to be just any random date to end their current age.

What circular argument? The one that says the Maya must have known about precession because the end of the 13th baktun occurs when the Sun is aligned with the galactic equator, so if they knew that was going to happen they must have known about precession. The trouble is, there is nothing else which points to the Maya knowing about precession or that this alignment would be occurring during this time frame, or that the Maya would place any significance on the alignment even if they knew it would happen.

I understand that there is nothing that proves they knew. But on the same level, with the amount of information they seem to have been aware of in term of space.. One can understand people's assumptions about their possible knowledge of precession. However, a person that has their answers based on empirical evidence only, of course would see holes in this argument, and who can blame them.

Thanks for clearing some things up.

edit on 16-12-2012 by MrConspiracy because: (no reason given)

I seem to have quoted the whole thing by mistake, my bad

reply to post by MrConspiracy

But on the same level, with the amount of information they seem to have been aware of in term of space

What information would that be?

Maya cosmology is not easy to reconstruct from our current knowledge of their civilization. It seems apparent, however, that the Maya believed Earth to be flat and four-cornered.

Some Maya also believed that the sky was multi-layered and that it was supported at the corners by four gods of immense physical strength called "Bacabs". Other Maya believed that the sky was supported by four trees of different colours and species, with the green ceiba, or silk-cotton tree, at the centre.

Earth in its flat form was thought by the Maya to be the back of a giant crocodile, resting in a pool of water lilies. The crocodile's counterpart in the sky was a double-headed serpent - a concept probably based on the fact that the Maya word for "sky" is similar to the word for "snake". In hieroglyphics, the body of the sky-serpent is marked not only with its own sign of crossed bands, but also those of the Sun, the Moon, Venus and other celestial bodies.

www.civilization.ca...

The Maya, like any agrarian society, had to be careful observers of the sky in order to survive. That they were able to use those observations to create an accurate calendar is a wonderful demonstration of what the human mind is capable of. That people can take that feat, apply their own agenda, misconceptions, and preconceptions to it and come up with some speculative piece of fluff which others accept as fact, is a demonstration of the opposite.

nice post.

here's a few thoughts for you to consider when thinking about alignments and referance points:

the great cycle is related to the mayan cycle thru the 'presession of the equinoxes'. this is an observed fact that the zodiacal stars migrate 'backwards' with respect to the 'position' of the earth equinox time stamp.

well known fact.

the accepted explanation is that the earth gyroscopically wobbles, thus changing our view point year to year with respect to our angular position around Sol. very complicated math. no-one knows where the actual forces come from tho: you know, to impart a torque.
and
no-one knows why the moon's orbit is not affected by this 'wobble'

but even more interesting is the fact that Sirius (one of the stars in Canis Major: the 'dog' star) does not move.
in complete contradiction to all of the 'fixed' stars (which are not cuz of 'presession'), Sirius does not move.

it is, in fact, still peaking into the very same giza pyramid window as it did many thousands of years ago.

if you count earth years by measuring the position of Sirius we do not need leap years: isn't that curious.

there are many who are now proposing that Sol(and us) actually orbit the triune system that Sirius is a part of and that the period of that orbit is the great cycle `26000 years.

and if it is known that we spin around this system (as the Mayans obviously did) then the only way to measure our position in the cycle is by using the next reference up: the galactic center. so the alignment that is happening is between Us, Sirius, and the GC.

the clock strikes midnight.

and the change is not just an astrological age, but a turning of the seccond wheel, the next level up, the cycle that the great year is only 1/12 of...

or so it is said by some.

either way: look into Sirius. the dog star is MOST curious and may hold a better reference than those distant quasars that we currently use.

Sirius can be found by following Orion's belt down and east : it is, in fact, the brightest actual star (planets are brighter) in the sky.


say "hi" to the dog star tonight and give a /wave.

Originally posted by Raelsatu
Well, in 7 days we'll find out. I don't believe nor disbelieve the hype behind this date, but I do find the alignment at the very least to be worth paying attention to. People seem to either be on one side of the fence or the other.

Anyway, 1 week left.

edit on 14-12-2012 by Raelsatu because: (no reason given)

Actually In my heart I feel something is coming but in my mind I feel like nothing will most likely happen!
My mind knows we keep hearing that the end is coming every decade or so but in my heart this is the first time i
feel as if there is something to worry about! I really don't think anything will happen on this particular day but i feel
that the world is ramping up for terrible things which will start to happen by next year! Noone knows what's going to go down but then again there have been many who had intuitive feelings when horrable things happend!
I feel it coming, it feels close but that may be because so many people are about to suffer! I hope my feelings are wrong! The truth is I felt my whole lifetime that something life changing would happen in the middle of my life!
Right now i'm 44 so I am mid past middle aged! This year has been the worst, as far as bad feelings go! Maybe I'm just going nuts! Maybe we all are! The truth is we are living well beyond our means and this can not continue.
If we don't stop this insanity, nature will stop us! Please don't ask me what i'm talking about as far as what we are doing that's so bad cause if you don't see it by now then you never will!

reply to post by Phage


To quote: "As has been pointed out, the Sun does not (ever) align with the center of the Milky Way"

That is simply bollocks, in 3 dimmensions every two objects can align at any point or time. The problems is having 3 objects aligning at the same time and as we have seen earth, sun and the center of the Milky Way will not align on the 21st of December.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

But no I'm not a troll. Me I'm trying to build a bridge around a certain royal keystone that we can all walk across (toll free) into a new domain of new possibility and freedom with a better understanding and comprehension of our true place in the grand scheme of things.

No, you're not a troll in the old sense. You are a "New Age" Troll. I guess along with all the other vague newness to be declared we should also think up a new age word for troll as well.

How about "Droll"?

To me you sound like the same tired and worn call to a "new religion" that crops up continuously, especially on the internet. It is at once as familiar and vague as your signature. Kind of a catchall to draw as many confused seekers to your "New Age" as you can.

Tell me... does your "grand scheme of things" include you as their leader?

reply to post by kobewan69

That is simply bollocks, in 3 dimmensions every two objects can align at any point or time.

Yes, but to see the Sun align with anything from our point of view on Earth, the Earth must be a third object. Any two objects are always "aligned".

The center of the galaxy (Sagittarius *A, the supermassive black hole) does not lie on the ecliptic. It will never align with the Sun from our point of view, just as Sirius or Vega or any other star which is not on the ecliptic will not.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Ah HA - I feel vindicated thank you. I knew the moon did tricky sun mimicking things but I just didn't know how to describe it properly.

Why? It has nothing to do with the solstices. It has nothing to do with the equinoxes. It has nothing to do with the rising or setting points.

False.