December 21st, 2012 11:11am GMT - Snapshot from Earth and Sun.

reply to post by galactix

so... galaxies hold themselves together and have different dynamics than solar systems, eh?
really?

Yes.

darkmass only applies on the intergalactic scale?

Dark matter. I said galactic and intergalactic.

more silliness. especially since there IS NO dark matter. lol

Ok. So there isn't enough mass to keep the Solar System in orbit around Sirius.

nibiru is than name given to a star known by the Egyptians

No. Not the Egyptians. But the Sumerians used the word to refer to several different things.

and the the the thats all folks.


do your own research.

think hard about it.


make
up
your
own
mind


“Well, I must endure the presence of a few caterpillars if I wish to become acquainted with the butterflies.”

reply to post by galactix


By your logic then, all asteroids should be orbiting moons, instead of the sun.

By your logic, all smaller planets should be orbiting larger planets, not the sun.

By your logic, there is no way at all that Voyager 1 and 2 can be actually leaving our solar system.

There is no "natural progression". Instead, there are physical laws.

You can't just say something is, and then expect people to believe you. You need to prove it, and so far you have fallen quite short of the bar for that.

Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by dodgygeeza

 

This is the new ATS where we can't discuss conspiracy theories or off the wall subjects without COLLEGE EDUCATED KIDS coming along and proving their superior linear knowledge they read from a book by an author they never met.

Off subject sorry.

Yea, this ^
And to figure that our entire species has advanced scientifically through their own observations, speculations and questions, all of which, started out as normal, un-heard of, individuals who were mocked, berated and sometimes faced punishment, imprisonment or even death to speak of these ideas or ask the questions. Science is not meant to be the know all end all. It is meant to discover, learn, advance and rediscover new ideas and facts. The Earth is the center of the solar system don't forget! So for what ever science has discovered as of yet, according to some, is to be taken as fact, nothing else to explore, nothing else to ponder, nothing else to speculate. How boring for our future that ppl can be this closed minded still. Is this what happened to other great civilizations? They discovered, and got so high on their own intellect and superiority that they just died off from lack of rediscovery? Who knows what tomorrow brings, let alone 12/21/12..... but at the rate that our earth is being destroyed and decline of morality and humanity, ........ makes one wonder if maybe it's time.

Originally posted by Jusvistn

Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by dodgygeeza

 

This is the new ATS where we can't discuss conspiracy theories or off the wall subjects without COLLEGE EDUCATED KIDS coming along and proving their superior linear knowledge they read from a book by an author they never met.

Off subject sorry.

Yea, this ^
And to figure that our entire species has advanced scientifically through their own observations, speculations and questions, all of which, started out as normal, un-heard of, individuals who were mocked, berated and sometimes faced punishment, imprisonment or even death to speak of these ideas or ask the questions. Science is not meant to be the know all end all. It is meant to discover, learn, advance and rediscover new ideas and facts. The Earth is the center of the solar system don't forget! So for what ever science has discovered as of yet, according to some, is to be taken as fact, nothing else to explore, nothing else to ponder, nothing else to speculate. How boring for our future that ppl can be this closed minded still. Is this what happened to other great civilizations? They discovered, and got so high on their own intellect and superiority that they just died off from lack of rediscovery? Who knows what tomorrow brings, let alone 12/21/12..... but at the rate that our earth is being destroyed and decline of morality and humanity, ........ makes one wonder if maybe it's time.

Fixed that for you by making that one word bold: "Learn"

And that's something that many on here refuse to do.

You want to talk about close minded? Fine: just how "open minded" is a person that watches a YouTube video, or reads an article suggesting something drastically different, and then ASSUMES that this "must be true", that all else that we know, that we have been able to validate through years, decades, and sometimes even centuries of testing and peer review must now be WRONG.

Yes, people once thought the world was flat, and the the Earth was the center of the universe. And those that thought otherwise might find themselves tided to a stake and burned alive.

We've come a long ways since then.

It's called the Scientific Method and it's worked quite well for a long time now:

The scientific method (or simply scientific method) is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge.[1] To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[2] The Oxford English Dictionary says that the scientific method is: "a method or procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses."[3]

In our world today, if you think that the sun orbits another star, there is absolutely NOTHING keeping from someone forming that idea, gathering evidence for it, and offering it up for peer review (it's called publishing a paper on it, and not posting a YouTube video or making a internet blog is not the way to go about it).

There is NOTHING keeping people from coming up with ideas and theories at all. One can speculate about things all they want.

But that is not what is going on here. Instead, we have individuals trying to say certain things are "Fact" when they have not in the slightest been proven to be anything but wild speculation.

People's ideas should be challenged. By doing that it will either stand or it will fall. Accepting EVERYTHING that EVERYONE says is not "Denying Ignorance".

Instead, it's embracing it.

Not every wild idea can be true, and sometimes long standing theories can and do fall. Sometimes things that people just KNEW were fact get completely rewritten as new things are discovered.

But no one is keeping anyone down, or keeping anyone from suggesting new ideas or theories on here.

But again, that's not what is happening. What is happening is people are trying to present things that are not fact, as fact.

Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by dodgygeeza

 

This is the new ATS where we can't discuss conspiracy theories or off the wall subjects without COLLEGE EDUCATED KIDS coming along and proving their superior linear knowledge they read from a book by an author they never met.

Off subject sorry.

No, you are right and it has everything to do with this topic! I too have a degree in the scientific area and am an engineer as well yet nothing makes me sicker than having a conversation with fellow scientists that act so smug like they know-it-all!
One time I said to my boss (who has her many diplomas hanging in her office) "Just think, Nina all you have learned other than what we have discovered on our own here are simply telling me you have a good memory!" She responded with "What do you mean?" I said everything you and I have learned from college is because we memorized the works of other people!" After a pause she laughed and said "God, you are right! Thanks for making me feel like moron!"
To the member (I forget his name, sorry but you didn't impress me enough to remember it) that jumped the OP saying he misquoted him is exactly the kind of person I am talking about! So, he took the liberty to 'spice' up his story, that is done ALL the time by the media and that is just journalism at work! Get over yourself, you're narcissistic and appear to suffer from egocentrism!

Originally posted by galactix
all ur science will belong to us

soon enuf.

soon enuf.....

Hilarious comment!

reply to post by wulff

I said everything you and I have learned from college is because we memorized the works of other people!" After a pause she laughed and said "God, you are right! Thanks for making me feel like moron!"

Then both of you did it wrong.
You're supposed to understand it, not memorize it.

Never mind - and it was another actor anyway.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

You look like Jesus.
At least how Leonardo thought he looked.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by wulff

 

I said everything you and I have learned from college is because we memorized the works of other people!" After a pause she laughed and said "God, you are right! Thanks for making me feel like moron!"

Then both of you did it wrong.
You're supposed to understand it, not memorize it.

edit on 12/16/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Nice try, but if we didn't understand it we wouldn't be where we are today and you wouldn't have a cell phone! I know you don't understand that last part but our lab was the one that developed the 2 volt GaAs semiconductors that are used in all cell phones.... and yes, we did learn from others and applied it to our needs but at least I am not someone that tries to make everyone else's fanciful ideas sound stupid because I think I have all the answers! Like my dad told me "You will never stop learning, listen to everyone's opinion no matter how trivial or seemingly 'outside the box' it may seem!" and you know what? I found he was right!
I even used an operators (high school edu) idea about using common bleach (NaClO aka Sodium hypochlorite) to etch the wafer so Au (Gold) would adhere better!
Okay mods, I know this is off-topic I just wanted to point out how Phages demeaning attitude to those with less formal education is not productive to learning!

reply to post by wulff

Like my dad told me "You will never stop learning, listen to everyone's opinion no matter how trivial or seemingly 'outside the box' it may seem!" and you know what? I found he was right!

Oh, I listen. Didn't you see me trying to understand what the OP was talking about? Over and over. While he constantly changed his position?
Do you believe everything you listen to? It is all true?

Originally posted by wulff

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by wulff

 

I said everything you and I have learned from college is because we memorized the works of other people!" After a pause she laughed and said "God, you are right! Thanks for making me feel like moron!"

Then both of you did it wrong.
You're supposed to understand it, not memorize it.

edit on 12/16/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Nice try, but if we didn't understand it we wouldn't be where we are today and you wouldn't have a cell phone! I know you don't understand that last part but our lab was the one that developed the 2 volt GaAs semiconductors that are used in all cell phones.... and yes, we did learn from others and applied it to our needs but at least I am not someone that tries to make everyone else's fanciful ideas sound stupid because I think I have all the answers! Like my dad told me "You will never stop learning, listen to everyone's opinion no matter how trivial or seemingly 'outside the box' it may seem!" and you know what? I found he was right!
I even used an operators (high school edu) idea about using common bleach (NaClO aka Sodium hypochlorite) to etch the wafer so Au (Gold) would adhere better!
Okay mods, I know this is off-topic I just wanted to point out how Phages demeaning attitude to those with less formal education is not productive to learning!

And neither is repremanding another member on ATS for pointing out things that people get wrong or are incorrect about something.

If you don't like his attitude, may I kindly point your direction to the handy, dandy "Alert" button. You can use it to alert the mods if you feel his behavior is not appropriate in a thread.

I don't like his attitude either. I find him very abrupt, rather sarcastic and at times insulting when I've felt that it would be better to explain something.

However, his behavior reminds me of several teachers and instructors that I had that had a "No Nonsense" and "All Business" attitude, especially in classes that I had that were very complex subjects.

However, I'm not the "Behavior Police" on this forum, and I am glad that he's here (or at least others like him) that can quickly point out when someone is incorrect about something, or is trying to present something as "fact" when it's actually wild speculation instead.

But this thread is not about Phage, or any other member for that mater. It's suppose to be about celestial objects like the sun and the moon, and I think the thread has been derailed enough, and we should get back on topic.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

You look like Jesus.
At least how Leonardo thought he looked.

What do you think of my new santa hat?

It's so appropriate you have no idea.

Here's an idea.

Somewhere back in this thread it's been pointed out that we appear to cross the Galactic Equator twice a year, yes the Equator, not just the Galactic Plane, Phage I think you posted that.

Secondly, for the past few decades, solstice has been landing regularly on the intersection with the Galactic Plane.

Therefore, it is possible that the plane of our solar system, and in particular that of our sun, is crossing over from below to above the Galactic Equator, which is what a lot of the 2012 people have been saying. Is that POSSIBLE?

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Here's an idea.

Somewhere back in this thread it's been pointed out that we appear to cross the Galactic Equator twice a year, yes the Equator, not just the Galactic Plane, Phage I think you posted that.

Secondly, for the past few decades, solstice has been landing regularly on the intersection with the Galactic Plane.

Therefore, it is possible that the plane of our solar system, and in particular that of our sun, is crossing over from below to above the Galactic Equator, which is what a lot of the 2012 people have been saying. Is that POSSIBLE?

Here, maybe this graphic might help.

The Ecliptic Plane shown in red in the picture below, is a imaginary plane that lays flat with the Earth's orbit around the us (not the Earth's or the sun's equators).

The Celestial Equator, marked by the blue plane in the picture below, is an imaginary plane that does extend out from the Earth's equator (and why there is a 23 degree difference between the Ecliptic and the Celestial equators due to the Earth's axial tilt).

The Galactic Equator is the yellow plane below in the graphic, and is an imaginary plane extending out from the center of our galaxy.

If you look, as the Earth orbits the sun along the Ecliptic Plane, you can see that it intersects with the Galactic Equator twice (one orbit is of course a year):



Now keep in mind a couple of things:

The Ecliptic changes over time due to Planetary Precession. Right now the angle of difference between the Ecliptic and Celestial planes are at 23.4 degrees.

The other thing to keep in mind is:

Because of the precessional motion of the equinox, the ecliptic coordinates of objects on the celestial sphere are continuously changing. Specifying a position in ecliptic coordinates requires specifying a particular equinox, that is, the equinox of a particular date, known as an epoch; the coordinates are referred to the direction of the equinox at that date. For instance, the Astronomical Almanac[24] lists the heliocentric position of Mars at 0h Terrestrial Time, 4 Jan 2010 as: longitude 118° 09' 15".8, latitude +1° 43' 16".7, true heliocentric distance 1.6302454 AU, mean equinox and ecliptic of date. This specifies the mean equinox of 4 Jan 2010 0h TT as above, without the addition of nutation.

(from the link above about the Ecliptic Plane)

reply to post by eriktheawful

That's very interesting, but it didn't help answer the question as far as I can tell.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Therefore, it is possible that the plane of our solar system, and in particular that of our sun, is crossing over from below to above the Galactic Equator, which is what a lot of the 2012 people have been saying. Is that POSSIBLE?

No. We did that several million years ago and it will be many millions before we do it again.

In addition, the solar system moves perpendicular to the galactic plane in a harmonic fashion, with a period of 52 to 74 million years and an amplitude of ~49 to 93 pc out of the galactic plane. (The uncertainties in the estimates of the period and amplitude of the motion are caused by the uncertainty in the amount of dark matter in the galactic disk.) The Sun and planets passed through the galactic plane about 2-3 million years ago, moving "northward."

www.astro.ncu.edu.tw...

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

That's very interesting, but it didn't help answer the question as far as I can tell.

Well first, the sun isn't moving in that sense, it's us, the Earth this is moving and crossing the Galactic Equator.

The movement of the Earth about it's orbit is what makes the sun appear to move in and out of the Galactic Equator.

Using terms such as "Above" or "Below" do not really have any meaning either. It's better to use directions like East, West, North, South, etc.

Based on that, if you could see the stars and our galaxy during the day, since this past November, it would look like (and I stress the world "look") the sun is moving towards the Galactic Equator from the west and will continue towards the Southeast once we cross the Galactic Equator.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33
Anyway, here is a picture or 2 that I found interesting to share with you...

From the Sun...see what I see here?


The alignment you were asking for I think...

Click on the pics to enlarge.

According to Phage, for the last decade during the Winter Solstice, the Earth/Sun alignment has been getting closer to the Galactic plane, and what we have for the 21st is a perfect intersection.

Two things of note: One, that indeed there is a perfect Earth/Sun alignment with the Galactic Plane and two, that while we don't line up perfectly with the Galactic Center, there is an alignment with the Dark Rift near the center of the Galaxy.

Therefore the Mayan Calendar was accurate.

The only question being whether their calendar depicted a cycle within a cycle denoting something that the ancient Egyptians called "The Great Year" which could be a reference to the cycle of the Precession of the Equinoxes, and/or another great cycle.

Point being that the 2012 "turning point" isn't just a bunch of nonsense, and the Mayan calendar predictive ability holds leading me to suspect that the beginning and end date actually describes a galactic cycle and turning point of the ages.

I don't know what to say. :O I just took this screen shot from the Science channel show "How Small is the Universe". This is the result of the Higgs particle discovery. This is the graphic of the Standard Model of physics. As soon as I saw it I thought of your post.

My pic