Promote the Gun, Uplift the Second Amendment

Originally posted by smurfy
reply to post by FlySolo

 

"What's wrong is, the gun debate is full of straw-man arguments."

Have no choice but to agree, I would add "and the rest" a word here, a word there, and everything is hunky dory.
And then there is the stats that don't always agree with the tricky dickys. Elsewhere on this forum is another pro-gun thread about the gun issue, citing Arizona, which is gun friendly, as being a safer place to be in the US, it could be, but it is also among the top issuers of murder by firearms,

www.guardian.co.uk...

In that data you will see that overall, the gun murders are actually coming down in the US. What you make of it all is definitely in the long haul. A good post, BTW.

This is the same argument brought up in this thread about Utah.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now obviously I don't know all the statistics, but if true could be a valid point. Thing is, there are just so many variables that contribute to why gun violence is down. I don't know.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle

Originally posted by olaru12
I'm all for the 2nd amendment and I have a very nice collection of pistols and long guns...

However people purchasing a fire arm need to be psychologically investigated as well as criminal records looked at and if you have ever been charged with a violent crime or DWI............NO GUN, no exceptions.

Violent crime yes... DWI no.

DWI shows irresponsibility... I do not want those types of people with guns.

Before you could even begin to ban guns you would have to round up the illegal immigrants and gangs. Illegal immigrants routinely break the law and are deported instead of tried and imprisoned. They then assume another name and come right back. Gangs will have guns so the citizenry will not be safe with them in the general population. Mentally ill people will have to be identified and dealt with instead of ignored. That is a lot of work to say the least.
The fact is that if there are guns present in the hands of law abiding citizens wherever large groups gather these mass murders would probably not happen, or at the least would result in fewer deaths.

Originally posted by FlySolo

Originally posted by smurfy
reply to post by FlySolo

 

"What's wrong is, the gun debate is full of straw-man arguments."

Have no choice but to agree, I would add "and the rest" a word here, a word there, and everything is hunky dory.
And then there is the stats that don't always agree with the tricky dickys. Elsewhere on this forum is another pro-gun thread about the gun issue, citing Arizona, which is gun friendly, as being a safer place to be in the US, it could be, but it is also among the top issuers of murder by firearms,

www.guardian.co.uk...



In that data you will see that overall, the gun murders are actually coming down in the US. What you make of it all is definitely in the long haul. A good post, BTW.

This is the same argument brought up in this thread about Utah.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now obviously I don't know all the statistics, but if true could be a valid point. Thing is, there are just so many variables that contribute to why gun violence is down. I don't know.

The point is really that gun murder is static, although still in the higher orbit 50% region.

reply to post by MentorsRiddle


SSSSS And FFFFFF

I don't have anything to contribute to this thread, only because this issue has been raked over countless times.
I'm in full support of protecting our 2nd amendment rights. Always have always will.

ETA: I wanted to add also that I will not allow myself to be left defenseless. Not saying I do or do not own a gun currently, however, I will still choose to use/own one if necessary, if it becomes outlawed. I don't care. I'm sorry I just don't. I'm responsible for my own well-being and safety and I won't rely on solely on law enforcement or government to protect me whist not first protect myself.

Originally posted by unb3k44n7
reply to post by MentorsRiddle

 

SSSSS And FFFFFF

I don't have anything to contribute to this thread, only because this issue has been raked over countless times.
I'm in full support of protecting our 2nd amendment rights. Always have always will.

ETA: I wanted to add also that I will not allow myself to be left defenseless. Not saying I do or do not own a gun currently, however, I will still choose to use/own one if necessary, if it becomes outlawed. I don't care. I'm sorry I just don't. I'm responsible for my own well-being and safety and I won't rely on solely on law enforcement or government to protect me whist not first protect myself.

edit on 16-12-2012 by unb3k44n7 because: (no reason given)

I'm scottish and don't know the in's and out's of gun ownership in the states, i do know however that a mentally unstable person once again wiped out so many innocent lives, why, we will never know, but is it not time to add to legislation, you wont give up your right to protect yourselves, so why not make it law that to own a gun ( of any type ) you need to have a government approved psycological certificate, ye i know these could be forged, or a database, DMV comes to mind, wouldn't this keep the peace between both camps

reply to post by MentorsRiddle


Option 1: Mass murders can be stopped if everyone had guns to return fire.

Option 2: Mass murders can be stopped if guns are hard to obtain.

What about option 3: Tier 5 explosive and sniper proof body armor for kids and teachers to wear every day. (with helmet).

reply to post by vor78

I really don't know Lets take a look at the scores..... Very Telling.

reply to post by hanyak69

Like I said in previous threads Fear Driven........ FYI. I have measures in place for anytype of perp be they armed or not (But then likelihood is they won't be carrying a gun in the UK)... Victim I most definitely ain't

Here is the most profound statement that you will read, and then re-read, in the next 21 seconds...

There are MORE dealers of illegal drugs in the United States, than there are dealers of legal guns! (Think about it...How many gun stores are there in your area? Now, how many drug dealers are listed in your local Police Blotter every week? And those are just the ones that got caught...)
DO you REALLY think more gun laws will make a difference?

Originally posted by frank64

Originally posted by unb3k44n7
reply to post by MentorsRiddle

 

SSSSS And FFFFFF

I don't have anything to contribute to this thread, only because this issue has been raked over countless times.
I'm in full support of protecting our 2nd amendment rights. Always have always will.

ETA: I wanted to add also that I will not allow myself to be left defenseless. Not saying I do or do not own a gun currently, however, I will still choose to use/own one if necessary, if it becomes outlawed. I don't care. I'm sorry I just don't. I'm responsible for my own well-being and safety and I won't rely on solely on law enforcement or government to protect me whist not first protect myself.

edit on 16-12-2012 by unb3k44n7 because: (no reason given)

I'm scottish and don't know the in's and out's of gun ownership in the states, i do know however that a mentally unstable person once again wiped out so many innocent lives, why, we will never know, but is it not time to add to legislation, you wont give up your right to protect yourselves, so why not make it law that to own a gun ( of any type ) you need to have a government approved psycological certificate, ye i know these could be forged, or a database, DMV comes to mind, wouldn't this keep the peace between both camps

Here is why...

Who is to say, that the voracious defense of one's God-given rights, wouldn't be construed as a form of insanity, by a government shrink????

Originally posted by jimmiec
Before you could even begin to ban guns you would have to round up the illegal immigrants and gangs. Illegal immigrants routinely break the law and are deported instead of tried and imprisoned. They then assume another name and come right back. Gangs will have guns so the citizenry will not be safe with them in the general population. Mentally ill people will have to be identified and dealt with instead of ignored. That is a lot of work to say the least.
The fact is that if there are guns present in the hands of law abiding citizens wherever large groups gather these mass murders would probably not happen, or at the least would result in fewer deaths.

They will not take the guns from the illegals for the same reason they ship guns into mexican gangs. They will only take guns from white americans. They are depending on illegals to help destroy the white christians. Their aim is to destroy white America. Spiritually I am speaking of the enemies of God trying to destroy Jacob.
I have no guns. It is not my lot to defend with guns. There are those who's lot it is though and they will probably die a patriots death and receive a patriots reward. If I thought we could win with guns then I would be the gun king.
Obabma can write any law he wants and say anything he wants. They can decree until the going down of the sun. But when they come to take our guns, many of them will meet hell's fire.
The white man loves his comfort and prosperity. He will go a long way to keep the peace even if for selfish reasons. But if we have to get up off our couch and go to war we will take heads and strew entrails across the ground like dung. And when we are done with them, even though they seem to win the day, Our God will destroy them off the face of the earth not leaving even a remnant of them or their posterity. This is the lot of those who fight against Jacob..

Our corrupt drug & gun running government would love nothing more than to supply our nation's criminals with illegal guns. This is how they fund their covert operations.

Originally posted by frank64


I'm scottish and don't know the in's and out's of gun ownership in the states, i do know however that a mentally unstable person once again wiped out so many innocent lives, why, we will never know, but is it not time to add to legislation, you wont give up your right to protect yourselves, so why not make it law that to own a gun ( of any type ) you need to have a government approved psycological certificate, ye i know these could be forged, or a database, DMV comes to mind, wouldn't this keep the peace between both camps

In theory, I *totally* agree with that Frank. The problem lies in the potential for that system to be abused. That's what happens in some cities where handgun licenses are required. You just have to go to the county clerk's office to pick on up and fill out. Conveniently, they're always out of forms to fill out and you can never even apply. The same would happen here, I'm afraid. They'd set the bar so high no one would pass.

However...I think it could work if applied to those under the age of 30. That would alleviate the concerns over it being used as a ban. At least the requirement would eventually expire with age. And why 30? Most of these incidents are orchestrated by perps in their teens and early 20s. Most likely, the crazies are going to get themselves banned from ever owning firearms during the run-up to age 30, anyway, and by that time, the psych eval would largely be redundant and unnecessary.

You could also require psychiatric evaluations for those who have been on mood altering drugs within the last 10 years. I think that could work, because again, the requirement expires and couldn't be used as a lifetime ban for someone who had problems at one point in their life but have gotten their act together since.

Originally posted by DreamerOracle
reply to post by vor78

 

I really don't know

Lets take a look at the scores..... Very Telling.

Wow- that is quite an eye opener...............

Even with the adjustment for population, that is a huge difference. For people who cant be bothered with the link it says:

Last year, handguns killed, 48 Japanese,. 8 British, 34 Swiss, 52 Canadians, 58 Israelis, 21 Swedish, 42 West Germans- and, wait for it: - 10,728 Americans!

If those figures are correct, I think they speak for themselves...........

Originally posted by DreamerOracle
reply to post by vor78

 

I really don't know

Lets take a look at the scores..... Very Telling.

You do realize that the US has around 6,000 non-firearm related murders yearly as well, don't you?

A gun ban wouldn't stop anything. Likewise, I suspect that if you were to implement US gun laws in the UK, in 5-10 years, there would be no significant uptick in gun-related homicides. Understand something...the US is not Europe and its not Japan. This problem is far, FAR more than just the presence of guns over here. There's a huge, violent gang culture in our major cities and a massive mental health crisis almost everywhere else. A gun ban will solve none of this, likely won't reduce the yearly homicide total (which is actually at its lowest since the late 60s) and will just piss off about 100 million people who were minding their own business.

If we let the gov take away our second amendment, we might as well let them have all of them..

I was once a person who thought that guns were only evil instruments of death and should be banned from everyone on the planet...

Then I woke up, just alone in the country I was born and raised and spent 20 years of my life saw gun crime all too frequently, I when I lived in my brother's apartment I heard gunshots on the street NIGHTLY and I lived in the peaceful tollerant country of the Netherlands.

When I move to the US where I eventually got married I was affraid that gun crime would be RAMPANT here, much worse than in the Netherlands, I was wrong since there was more GOOD people with guns then there were bad people.

Since my first experience with a firearm loaded with live ammo, to the time I learned all the basics about gun ownership to the time I bought a BB-gun to become proficient with firearms before I handled live firearms to the time I actually were able to buy a gun to the moment I volunteered to serve in the US ARMY I have grown to love guns since they protect ME, my WIFE and CHILDREN AND the country I adopted as my own!

America is trully the LAND OF THE BRAVE while European countries and the LAND OF THE COWARDS who fear these instruments of freedom.

Guns are already a part of the world we live in, We can't take them away anymore, esspecially not from the criminals, we cannot unlearn how to manufacture these tools either even if we banned guns WORLDWIDE.

WE need to be on the same level as ANYONE who can use the same tool against us, it's like nuclear deterence, I country with nukes will not use nukes on another country with nukes because they fear the same weapon will be used against them! that's EXACTLY how criminals feel, they will always prey on the once who do NOT have access to guns I.E. gun free zones.

Criminals are the ultimate cowards, they FEAR armed citizens, that includes mass shooters, history has proven that.

Originally posted by DreamerOracle
reply to post by vor78

 

I really don't know

Lets take a look at the scores..... Very Telling.

hey mack according to the cdc

About 600,000 people die of heart disease in the United States every year–that’s 1 in every 4 deaths.

you wanna ban bacon and pancakes?

also ban communism Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975): 40,000,000

"lets take a wittle wook at deez scores of people"

Originally posted by rockoperawriter

Originally posted by DreamerOracle
reply to post by vor78

 

I really don't know

Lets take a look at the scores..... Very Telling.

hey mack according to the cdc

About 600,000 people die of heart disease in the United States every year–that’s 1 in every 4 deaths.

you wanna ban bacon and pancakes?

pathetic argument. Bacon and pancakes are great but a bullet in the face ain't.