Ban the Gun, Repeal the Second Amendment.

Banning guns at this late stage of the whole debacle is pointless. There are more guns that people, and if the effort to ban alcohol in the 20s taught us anything, it's that this society will do what it wishes in spite of laws to the contrary.

A sensible move might be to ban those enormous ammo clips. Another idea might be to make it illegal to ship guns by USPS, UPS, DHL, or any of the other legitimate shipping companies unless the recipient is a licensed dealer with current permits and up to date paperwork. Not a ban on guns, but just the high volume clips and the shipping companies that allow Internet dealers to sell guns to anyone with money and a mail drop.

It seems as if the clips and guns that exist already should be enough to serve the paranoid delusions of everyone who honestly thinks that their guns will save them, and I sure as hell don't want to see guns being confiscated, since that'll just cause some normally law-abiding folks to feel the need to destroy the rest of their own lives over such an empty and useless gesture by the government. What I think does need to change is the hysterics over gun rights whenever a bunch of people are hosed down by some freak with an arsenal. From both sides.

We can get rid of the 30+ bullet clips, and we can make it impossible for European and Chinese Internet gun dealers to make millions off stirred up American "patriots" who see jack-boots goose-stepping through their neighborhoods every time the peek through their blinds.

Then, we could all try to support efforts aimed at giving young guys a sense that they might just have a future in this society that includes a decent job - or even a career - and a home of their own (if they work hard and do the right thing) and maybe even a family that could love them for being decent and honest and respectful of other people's right to live a life that's fulfilling. Maybe if we didn't work so hard at convincing each other that there's no future for any of us, then maybe it'd be harder for some kid, growing up under that sort of cloud of impending failure, to see a violently spectacular death as the most attractive "destiny" he can choose - given all other available options as he sees them.

Success - even imagined success - is a brilliant motivator. The eroding prospects for such success, being faced by teenagers at this specific moment in our society, is definitely feeding the kind of thinking that can end with these kinds of domestic suicide-terror killing sprees. It's this hopelessness that fuels Middle East suicide bombers, so why wouldn't we recognize it when our own young men embrace the same "romantic" notions? They aren't looking for cloud banks full of virgins, but they are looking for "rock star" notoriety, which is what most Middle East suicide bombers are going for when they detonate themselves to kill as many others as they can. There are a lot of young guys who want (maybe even need) to be exceptional in some way or another. If we continue to eliminate all possible means of accomplishment for certain economic classes, we'll be up to our *sses in "suicide bombers" of our own.

Just a few thoughts on the subject.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


LOL! the anti-gun rhetoric is dialing up to a fever pitch now... Give it up you are not getting the guns period! Whether you're a sock puppet or just ignorant it isn't going to happen'!

100 millions gun owners in America 99.999% of whom have never killed anyone much less committed a crime and they all should give up their guns because one guy killed a bunch of people?.... Yeah right sigh! Complete illogic!

As others have mentioned prohibition never works it just creates a black market enabling the criminal element to get very rich i.e. alcohol and drugs and people who really want guns can still get them.

Guns in the hands of armed citizens save far more lives then people using guns take lives and they prevent more crime then all law enforcement in the country combined.

Crime rates in England and Austrailia soared when they banned guns because criminals knew their victims wre likely unarmed.

The latest shooting happened in a supposed "gun free" no tolerance zone so much for bans. All it did was disarm people who could have defended themselves and prevented most if not all of those killings had they had guns to do so. So according to the illogic of the anti gun crowd this could not have happened... Funny how many of these shootings occur in places where guns are supposedly banned. How convenient. If you were a criminal looking to shoot someone would you go to a place where you knew people were armed or where you knew they were unarmed?

That principle and a whole lot of kids might be alive if he were or someone there was armed!

Most countries in the 20th century who banned guns ended up murdering millions of their citizens who had not weapons to fight back to the tune of 50 million.

Britain and Austrialia will rue the day they gave up thier guns!

No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms...
---Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution, 1776.

To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government...
---John Adams, A Defence of the Constitutions of the United States 475 (1787-1788)

Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them...
---Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

Last but not least it is the law:
...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
US Constituion Amendment II

it's not about duck hunting and sporting use. It's about preserving liberty!

And Finally:

reply to post by NorEaster


Your gun will save you. I've seen it work.

Ban high capacity guns. Or at least make it extremely difficult to get them and illegal to own them.

Also, every school in the USA should have at least one armed police officer.... Why is that too hard to do?

If there had been one at that CT school, the freak may have gotten in, and perhaps killed someone, or maybe a couple of people, but if there was an armed officer in the building, he would not have gotten far.

It should be LAW! ... Every school in the USA has an armed police officer at least one!

That officer should not be in a uniform, and maybe some of the top school staff should also be armed.

The world we live in now demands no less than this to protect the children.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Your gun will save you. I've seen it work.

edit on 15-12-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

I don't want your guns taken. I just don't like Internet sales to anyone with a modem and a credit card, and I want spree killer to have to reload after 9 kills. That's not asking a lot.

reply to post by ausername


What do you mean by High Capacity? There is nothing wrong with Assualt Rifles. If that is what you are referring .


reply to post by NorEaster



You cannot buy one over the Internet .. exactly. You can buy it, but then you still have to go through a local dealer to get the weapon.

Originally posted by milkyway12

reply to post by NorEaster

 

You cannot buy one over the Internet .. exactly. You can buy it, but then you still have to go through a local dealer to get the weapon.

edit on 15-12-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

No good enough. By the way, your avatar suggests that you and I are not likely to find common ground.

My Jesus isn't a sniper. Just sayin'..

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

Yeah, and there is nothing wrong with that. At all.

I'm failing to see your point.

edit on 15-12-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

I know

reply to post by NorEaster


Um .. good for you?

reply to post by Fireman205253


Yes, you are right it does have a lot to do with the desensitizing of society. I remember hearing horror stories about entire theatre's getting nausious at the early stages of 'horror' stories, like jaws etc. The thing is the more they 'see' dead corpses, slashers, its all preconditioning the mind to not be 'queezy' which if you take an innocent kid and put it infront of the tv during one of those shows would be tramatized and have nighmares for weeks if not months. Most of the stuff that is on tv, has our ancestors rolling and squirming in the graves just because its a 'common' sight. Most people seem to think oh 'sounds' and 'smells' will stop people, Truth be told you don't 'smell' it til its happened, so however gross the remains are and the stench you have already commited a crime against humanity.

While I will agree with that, Having intelligence and 'proper' education, and knowledge of destruction it can bring, I think people only see guns as a means to kill, without realizing that knives, gas, hell your typical blood draw at the doctor can kill you (don't believe me? Air Pocket from an injection to withdraw your blood can cause your heart to explode).

You might as well give everyone plastic silverware.. no wait.. um spoons made of soft clay take away their stoves and cut all the tree's down in a community so you don't get blow guns.. burn all the shrubs so you don't get poisons, AND take away everyone's car.. cause well drunk driving kills too. + take away everything with a warning label that says 'fatal if used this way'. There goes about 90% of the # in your house including your pillow.

Oh yeah don't forget you can kill someone with paper too.. and rocks yup yup, - now to my point. ITs all about responsibility, a bully doesn't bully someone who has the power to defend themselves. That includes criminals of this extent.

Give guns to everyone, again have them in plain sight, and guess what the bullying stops as he/she stands there with a finger in the air counting all the guns he can see around him calculating his odds for survival.

Granted if they didn't give a flying fudge at least you could stop it with minimal causalities.

Originally posted by Liquesence
Because banning/making drugs illegal completely eradicated drugs, and the addiction and abuse and all.

It's not a gun issue, it's a societal and mental health issue perpetuated by the barrage of contradictions that overwhelm stimuli on a daily basis.

ETA: For every crazy SOB with a gun, there are 100 responsible owners.

edit on 14-12-2012 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)

So if the population of the US is what? Over three hundred million? How many crazy sob's is that?

You're right about the mental issues but why is it happening so often in the US? It happens in other places of course but these incidents are few and far between.

Guns are wrong but it seems a lot of men don't feel like men unless they know they've got a weapon designed to kill in their hands.

People who are pro-gun are good Freudian test subjects. Society is the US is meant to have evolved since the days of the rooting tooting shooting cowboys.

reply to post by BlackArrow


Dude .. have you ever killed someone? Movies and games don't desensitize #.

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Your gun will save you. I've seen it work.

edit on 15-12-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

I don't want your guns taken. I just don't like Internet sales to anyone with a modem and a credit card, and I want spree killer to have to reload after 9 kills. That's not asking a lot.

Wow the mindset of being a victim is sad. Here's a novel idea instead of being at the mercy of some nut with a gun how about you have your own and defend yourself? The facts are armed citizens stop more crime then all Law enforcement in the country combined. gee why don't they report that on the news? No agenda there...This is usually because they are the intended victim. They have a 97% success rate in stopping their would be assailant . On the other hand unarmed people have a 97% rate of being a victim and ending up harmed or dead. Which odds would you prefer?

The solution is to make it mandatory for teachers and administrators to be armed and trained. Having a police officer on sight doesn't work they just go and hide like everyone else unless directly confronted.

I have an 8 year old son. He knows how to use a gun safely, because he was taught from a younger age with his bb gun. Education is the most important part of gun ownership. Most people who use guns for illegal activities lack that education. Look I don't live in the city, I live in the country. I'll be honest, there is a different gun mentality in the country versus the city. Most in the country have had a gun safety course, because you have to have it to obtain a hunting liscense. I believe it makes a difference. If, as a gun owner you approach things in a legal way, through proper education, you won't have an issue. Where people see issues is when people have little to know education on guns, other than to point and shoot. I have choosen to educate my kids at a young age, as I was educated by my father and grandfather at a young age. And I will defend my right, my families right, and your right to possess a gun until the end. It's a basic right, just as much as the freedom of speech, that our four fathers imposed from the beginning. It's what makes the USA. Those that actually own guns will never want them taken away. To those that don't own guns, it's your choice, but don't you ever try to make my choice for me. You have no right.

Milkyway, I'm glad that we are on the same side on this.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by ausername

 

What do you mean by High Capacity? There is nothing wrong with Assualt Rifles. If that is what you are referring .

Assault rifles are a problem, and need some consideration for stricter regulations, but not a ban.

high-capacity: magazines, clips etc need to be banned.

You don't need a 100 round clip for hunting do you?

It should be extremely difficult to get these items, and for most people it should be illegal to own them.

Will that stop it? ... NO and neither will repealing the second amendment, but something has to be done, as a matter of principle.

Killers are going to kill, and anything that can make it more difficult for them should be done, especially anything that can possibly prevent mass killings like those that have recently happened. Common sense approaches to gun regulations that people can LIVE with.

Originally posted by BlackArrow

Give guns to everyone, again have them in plain sight, and guess what the bullying stops as he/she stands there with a finger in the air counting all the guns he can see around him calculating his odds for survival.

I'm just glad that you're not in charge of anything.

Ever see the climax of Reservoir Dogs? And any other movie that has that scene where all the guns are drawn and one guy twitches and then everyone dies?

Now picture that scene on a school yard playground as Little Timmy has finally had his fill of Billy bullsh*t. Sure Billy's a bully, but that shouldn't be a capital crime. But then, Billy has a piece too, so let's see if Timmy can squeeze off a kill be fore Billy, or one of Billy's pals takes Timmy out with his shooter.

I guess the upside would be smaller classes. After the first few weeks of school anyway.

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Your gun will save you. I've seen it work.

edit on 15-12-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

I don't want your guns taken. I just don't like Internet sales to anyone with a modem and a credit card, and I want spree killer to have to reload after 9 kills. That's not asking a lot.

Wow the mindset of being a victim is sad.

That's the mindset of a victim? Really?

What planet do you come from? I want to inconvenience a spree killer, and you call that a victim mindset?

You're either getting paid to think like that, or I don't want someone like you in my neighborhood. I don't see any other interpretations that make sense, given that bizarre response.

Originally posted by hawkiye

The facts are armed citizens stop more crime then all Law enforcement in the country combined. gee why don't they report that on the news? No agenda there...This is usually because they are the intended victim. They have a 97% success rate in stopping their would be assailant . On the other hand unarmed people have a 97% rate of being a victim and ending up harmed or dead. Which odds would you prefer?

Oh...and you probably should provide some sourcing for this. Otherwise, we'll all have to assume that you're pulling this stuff out of your *ss.

Thanks.

Those willing to trade freedom for security deserve neither.

reply to post by NorEaster

and I want spree killer to have to reload after 9 kills.

You mean change his clip in 2 seconds.

Psst my small frame 9mm has 11 plus the chamber.
And standard frull size frames come with 18 plus the chamber. So that 30 round clip isn't must bigger.