Breaking News - Shooting at Newtown, Connecticut elementary school.

reply to post by shaneslaughta


i have watched the video several times of the gun being pulled from the trunk of the car. it appears to be a bolt action rifle, not an ar-15. almost to the point of it obviously not being an ar-15 due to its forend grip, the way the cop unloads it, and lack of a magazine sticking out. it appears several bullets are unloaded, but theres no magazine, which means its probably a bolt action which only holds like 5 rounds in a built in magazine.


while im posting, id like to clear something else up, since im tried of reading it on every page, it pertains to the legality of an ar-15 being used to hunt with in that state based purely on the size of caliber. you people have to understand that an ar-15 is a weapons platform that comes IN MANY DIFFERENT CALIBERS. from .22 to .308 and lots of others. so before you start blabbing on every single page of this thread about an ar-15 and how it cant be legal to hunt with in the state because it shoots .223 which is considered to small to hunt with, do a little more research on the gun your talking about. if an ar-15 is restricted in the state it is most likely due to either it being semi-automatic, can hold a certain amount of rounds in the magazine, or it being considered a handgun of some type.

an ar-15 is considered a handgun sometimes due to its grip.

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.


It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

Flight/Flee Autistic?

He recalled meeting with school guidance counselors, administrators and with the boy's mother, Nancy Lanza, to understand his problems and find ways to ensure his safety. But there were other crises only a mother could solve. "He would have an episode, and she'd have to return or come to the high school and deal with it," Novia said, describing how the young man would sometimes withdraw completely "from whatever he was supposed to be doing," whether it was sitting in class or reading a book. Adam Lanza "could take flight, which I think was the big issue, and it wasn't a rebellious or defiant thing," Novia said. "It was withdrawal."

My daughter had the VERY same issues and is also a flight/flee autistic. This is looking more and more like he was autistic/aspergers and not just run of the mill shooter. I can recall numerous times where I'd be called almost 20 minutes after school started to come pick up my daughter because she tried to run away again. Or because she threw a crayon in class and was being disrupted. Schools are NOT equipped to deal with autistic kids and YET school board insist on mainstreaming them into regular schools but special classes. I'm going to say this once here and once only. Every district needs to have a special autistic school. EVERY. To meet the needs of these children. They cannot deal with special ed classrooms all the time, the teachers are not always prepared to deal with them, and the other children in the class are the ones left to deal with the damage. If you place them in a special school where the teachers are more prepared to handle them, the children have a better environment to learn. When my daughter finally entered one, she thrived like nothing else. Every district needs one.

So how to do you shoot 30 people at point blank range 3-6" without anyone running off?

State of shock or not, you can sure as # bet kids would be scrambling. Fight or flight response. It's human nature.

I would assume that there would be one set of parents that would want to see their child, but I am going to assume at this point that hasn't occurred.

the "loud cracks" people are describing over the intercom might have been flashbangs, 20 kids were grabbed. That might explain how this is the first mass shooting I have ever seen where there hasn't been a drop of blood in the first 48 hours of news coverage.

Autism Response to Newtown Shooting

We are deeply saddened for the children and adult victims of this horrific crime. Words cannot express the loss and what those families must be feeling. We look to remembering those victims at this time and await to hear more details about the facts of how everything transpired before making conclusions that harm others in the community. As the details concerning these tragic events in Connecticut continue to unfold, we ask the media, our leaders and our community to please consider the potentially stigmatizing and harmful allegations and assumptions being made concerning individuals with autism. While it appears that the young man that committed these horrible crimes had a diagnosis of Asperger’s and had other mental and emotional issues, you cannot use the decisions and actions of one individual to further subjugate and harm the millions of American individuals and children living with an Autism diagnosis.

As a society, we cannot take away individual accountability and responsibility. Autism didn’t necessarily pull the trigger for the young man, who is a complex individual whose motives are as of yet unknown. In today’s day and age, we have learned that it is irresponsible to link a particular crime with any specific group of people. In this case, attempts to link this type of violence to our loved ones with autism simply sets back our society’s progress and causes unnecessary fear among peers and the community at large. Let us as a society try and find ways to heal and to learn from these events. One way that we could do this is to stop being reactionary and to look beyond symptoms and actually treat one of the main issues here—that rather than cut resources from mental and emotional health budgets throughout the states and mask issues through a widespread pharmacological campaign that can be helpful but is not always required, we need a more proactive approach to dealing with the issue. We as a society need to be more understanding as autistics struggle through the school systems, and then as they become adults still requiring assistance after they’re grown. Many of the millions of autistics out there can and do contribute much to our society.

With humble hearts and with much sadness, we remember the lives lost and ask that as a nation we move forward and not backwards with hope—not fear. We ask our leaders to use this tragedy to heal our nation and not continue to divide us. Finally, we ask that people truly begin to understand what autism is and what can be done to make the country a better place for all of us and those we care about.

Thank you.

No link between Autism and Violence:ABC News

While an official has said that the 20-year-old gunman in the Connecticut school shooting had Asperger's syndrome, experts say there is no connection between the disorder and violence. Asperger's is a mild form of autism often characterized by social awkwardness. "There really is no clear association between Asperger's and violent behavior," said psychologist Elizabeth Laugeson, an assistant clinical professor at the University of California, Los Angeles.

A law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to discuss the unfolding investigation, said Lanza had been diagnosed with Asperger's.

Research suggests people with autism do have a higher rate of aggressive behavior — outbursts, shoving or pushing or angry shouting — than the general population, he said. "But we are not talking about the kind of planned and intentional type of violence we have seen at Newtown," he said in an email. "These types of tragedies have occurred at the hands of individuals with many different types of personalities and psychological profiles," he added.

"I think it's far more likely that what happened may have more to do with some other kind of mental health condition like depression or anxiety rather than Asperger's," Laugeson said. She said those with Asperger's tend to focus on rules and be very law-abiding. "There's something more to this," she said. "We just don't know what that is yet."

Originally posted by happyhomemaker29
Flight/Flee Autistic?

He recalled meeting with school guidance counselors, administrators and with the boy's mother, Nancy Lanza, to understand his problems and find ways to ensure his safety. But there were other crises only a mother could solve. "He would have an episode, and she'd have to return or come to the high school and deal with it," Novia said, describing how the young man would sometimes withdraw completely "from whatever he was supposed to be doing," whether it was sitting in class or reading a book. Adam Lanza "could take flight, which I think was the big issue, and it wasn't a rebellious or defiant thing," Novia said. "It was withdrawal."

My daughter had the VERY same issues and is also a flight/flee autistic. This is looking more and more like he was autistic/aspergers and not just run of the mill shooter. I can recall numerous times where I'd be called almost 20 minutes after school started to come pick up my daughter because she tried to run away again. Or because she threw a crayon in class and was being disrupted. Schools are NOT equipped to deal with autistic kids and YET school board insist on mainstreaming them into regular schools but special classes. I'm going to say this once here and once only. Every district needs to have a special autistic school. EVERY. To meet the needs of these children. They cannot deal with special ed classrooms all the time, the teachers are not always prepared to deal with them, and the other children in the class are the ones left to deal with the damage. If you place them in a special school where the teachers are more prepared to handle them, the children have a better environment to learn. When my daughter finally entered one, she thrived like nothing else. Every district needs one.

I agree about a special school for special needs children. When I was in 10th grade in gym class, I was playing basketball & went up for a rebound & got my legs taken out from under me & landed on my head. I was knocked out for about 5 mintues & no one could find the teacher to get help because she had left the class unattended to have to deal with a special needs student. I ended up having a concussion & missed a week of school. I guess I was lucky that there was nothing else wrong.

Originally posted by MidnightTide


I really don't take pictures that news media throw up, usually they are selected on bias.....just take Omar Khadr and Travyon incidents - they used pictures of when they were kids.

Yeah, that was my point too - they will pick the creepiest picture they can find and use it as much as possible. Anything with red-eye is a bonus.
The semi-cute young kid is gone, now it'll be the disturbing 'the face of a killer' one forever.
Although there was a ghoulish fascination with the photo on my part I admit.

reply to post by happyhomemaker29


I'll be curious to see if it's sheer coincidence that another kid (Christopher Krumm) living in a town only 66 miles away from Newtown killed his father just two weeks ago, accusing him of being the one responsible for giving him Aspergers.

Although Aspergers may not be directly linked to violence, is it linked to copying others in any way?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by happyhomemaker29

 

I'll be curious to see if it's sheer coincidence that another kid (Christopher Krumm) living in a town only 66 miles away from Newtown killed his father just two weeks ago, accusing him of being the one responsible for giving him Aspergers.

Although Aspergers may not be directly linked to violence, is it linked to copying others in any way?

IDK but there have been a few cases here (in my City) in the last several months where Aspergers adults (still living with their parents) became Violent and Police were called. In one case the Kid was arrested and the parents went nuts (although they were the ones who called) and in another the man came at officers with a weapon of some sort and was tazed.

I have very little knowledge of this condition but have seen it connected with violence in my local area-

I don't know about aspergers, but on my long ass busride of two hours to the bad kid school I graduated from, I shared a bus with an autistic boy of about 10. He would get violent outbursts when his routine rituals were disturbed in any way. Like if the bus was late picking him up, I wasn't able to sleep on the busride to school those days. He would be yelling and throwing stuff prettymuch the whole ride.

Originally posted by Surfrat
Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :
....

But South Park has told us that any celebrities who have any opinions about social issues are idiots

My prayers are with those in need of them. This makes me very sad for humanity.

Originally posted by delusion

Originally posted by Surfrat
Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :
....

But South Park has told us that any celebrities who have any opinions about social issues are idiots

Most are (idiots.) =P

I remember a long time ago reading an article with a Brad Pitt interview. It was when he was doing that movie about Tibet. He was asked something along the lines of (paraphrase) "What do you think about the persecution of the Dali lama?"

His answer...

"I dont. I am an actor."

Kudos to Brad Pitt.

Hollywood itself is a "mind control" tool which intentionally or not shapes opinions and society. A "true" movie can be so untrue and used to convey a "message" - Facts be damned. Too many actors buy their own bull#.
EDIT: That said- There are some real gems coming from some Celebrities- The Marlyn Manson article about Columbine (for instance) was Brilliant- And I think hes an idiot and a terrible "artist" but damn- His article was great. maybe we decide what is "great" based on our own beliefs? Idk?

Originally posted by paradism
So how to do you shoot 30 people at point blank range 3-6" without anyone running off?

State of shock or not, you can sure as # bet kids would be scrambling. Fight or flight response. It's human nature.
...

There's other possible reactions too -
"Normalcy Bias.
The misconception: Your fight-or-flight instincts kick in and you panic when disaster strikes.
The truth: You often become abnormally calm and pretend everything is normal in a crisis."
(David McRaney - You Are Not So Smart.)

I'm not saying that would have happened. Just that there are things we expect to happen in situations we haven't experienced that don't neccessarily.

I think they would have been frozen in horror or their brains would have been taking them into altered states. I can only imagine the horror felt when seeing others shot in front of you and knowing you would be next. My brain would look for any way out.

reply to post by happyhomemaker29


Your input's appreciated.

Some updates--

1. The RIP Victoria Soto page that was up yesterday from 12/10 is now down. Link was: www.facebook.com... but that now just redirects to facebook for me.

Actually, now it's showing this group: SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL ADAM LANZA INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY Link: www.facebook.com...

So I'm really confused-- not sure if it's the same group, b/c no group # is given. Was pretty sure first was a fan page, and 2nd is a group. Anyone else getting that page popping up?

2. At church today, we were told the brother of one of our church people (small church-- 100 or so-- in Minnesota) lost a granddaughter. Her name was Charlotte Bacon, 6. So I think this confirms to me that these are REAL kids. No reason for my conservative church to make this up. We have no political sway.

That being said, I still haven't seen any blood anywhere nor heard of parents seeing their kids yet. I haven't ruled out the kidnap/murder possibility-- or if bodies are NEVER seen-- the kidnap theory yet.


Some genuine questions:

1. How many LE officers would actually SEE a scene like this? Are we talking 1 or 2 or 20-30+? I know there were hundreds of people around, but most would never see the actual scene. Just wondering if anyone would have a decent approximation of how many would be there.

2. Something seemed WAAAAY off about the ME's report yesterday. I get that he was nervous, but his jokes were wildly out of place. I saw this page-- no clue if this guy has any credibility, so help me out... any chance he's not the real ME or a "recent hire" like the 1 teacher who survived. (Thoughts are still bubbling on recently hired teacher)

What I'm wondering is-- could there be just a few KEY actors in this plot, set up ahead of time? Maybe not-- talk me out of it, please.

3. The more I think of it, the Hurricane Sandy/Sandy Hook thing bugs me. And the principle being named Dawn/Red Dawn/Aurora Colorado. And NEW TOWN being the "Safest Town in America". Probably just the spicy food I had yesterday, but these names/titles bug me.

It's like the attack says this: There is a NEW TOWN now. The safest town in America? The place where a school was attacked. So how safe do you feel now?

Maybe nothing, but is there a chain linking names anywhere? Would love to read on it.


Anyway, thanks for the great info-- please keep it coming.

Originally posted by delusion

Originally posted by paradism
So how to do you shoot 30 people at point blank range 3-6" without anyone running off?

State of shock or not, you can sure as # bet kids would be scrambling. Fight or flight response. It's human nature.
...

There's other possible reactions too -
"Normalcy Bias.
The misconception: Your fight-or-flight instincts kick in and you panic when disaster strikes.
The truth: You often become abnormally calm and pretend everything is normal in a crisis."
(David McRaney - You Are Not So Smart.)

I'm not saying that would have happened. Just that there are things we expect to happen in situations we haven't experienced that don't neccessarily.

I think they would have been frozen in horror or their brains would have been taking them into altered states. I can only imagine the horror felt when seeing others shot in front of you and knowing you would be next. My brain would look for any way out.

True.
Also to add- Very young children deal with crisis better than adults in many situations. Not really understanding the "repercussion" and finality of things nor having an understanding of "reality" often makes them far more calm in situations like this.

As a kid I remember our house was robbed. My parents were freaked out (understandably) but I actually found it exciting in an odd way. I slept with my "cap gun" and fantasized about stopping the "robbers" (who I pictured in a black mask like the hamburgler)- I was probably in pre school at the time.

Fast forward a whole lot of years and my wife and I were robbed (3 years ago) and it was so stressful it was like having minor PTSD for a few months.

I think kids didnt really understand what was happening- Just my opinion, but I dont find it odd they didnt flee. We also have no idea what entry/egress points there even were in the classroom. I am assuming there was one and this was an "ambush".

anyways, about the gun in the car.

like i said earlier it appears to be a bolt action rifle also known as a "long gun"

i have never heard of an AR-15 being called a "long gun"

didn't the medical examiner say they were killed with a "long gun"

ok, so does that mean there was no AR-15 involved, if the gun in the car was a "long gun" and the weapon he used in side the school was a "long gun" too?

i might say maybe the terminology is just relaxed, but i wouldnt think a medical examiner would be relaxed on terminology.

never mind, i guess people do call it that, and it is considered that. i have never heard it called that before. i thought it was considered i different type of weapon. ive been around guns for ever including ar-15s. never heard it called that.

Originally posted by timesacomin
anyways, about the gun in the car.

like i said earlier it appears to be a bolt action rifle also known as a "long gun"

i have never heard of an AR-15 being called a "long gun"

didn't the medical examiner say they were killed with a "long gun"

ok, so does that mean there was no AR-15 involved, if the gun in the car was a "long gun" and the weapon he used in side the school was a "long gun" too?

i might say maybe the terminology is just relaxed, but i wouldnt think a medical examiner would be relaxed on terminology.

No medical examener said "rifle" (if I remember right)
A long gun and an "assault rifle" would use the same ammunition and there would be no way to tell from the wounds since the caliber would/could be identical.

A "Long Gun" has a "built in chamber" and does not rely on a clip. Although you are right, the weapon in the trunk was a Long gun.