Time Samplers - Comic from an ATS member about NWO, conspiracies, time travel, and lucid dreaming

reply to post by scientist


I don't mean to sound overly critical but this is something that I think you need to put a lot of thought into.

I am someone who plans on doing something similar and I worry that what you are doing could damage the ability of my work to be taken seriously.

My view is that you should change the name of the comics to something that sounds more respected and serious and makes the subject matter sound more serious not something that could be perceived as a joke.

Also, I think dealing with something like Barbara Bush and Disney being related to the occult and Nazis the way you did adds to the crazy stigma of conspiracy theorists. I DO think there is a way you can do it without it looking like it is a joke which it does IMO. Your art is very good but I don't think it fits the seriousness of the subject. This is what I am talking about with there being a huge responsibility in how you approach this.

reply to post by scientist


Whoa! Effin' awesome! PAPERBACK IS A MUST!!!!

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
reply to post by scientist

 

Also, I think dealing with something like Barbara Bush and Disney being related to the occult and Nazis the way you did adds to the crazy stigma of conspiracy theorists. I DO think there is a way you can do it without it looking like it is a joke which it does IMO. Your art is very good but I don't think it fits the seriousness of the subject. This is what I am talking about with there being a huge responsibility in how you approach this.

Isn't that what the definition of "Theory" is? Certainly your "Theory" is not their "theory" however, he should keep it because his "theory" is no truer or more accurate than your "theory."

And, let's keep it real...Some "theories" are a joke. And if your going to captivate an audience of both supporters and non-supporters of various "theories". Then I think the approach to how they written them is not only fantastic, but genius in it's effectiveness AND it's simplicity.

Yay, I have a Kindle.

reply to post by foodstamp


Don't the skeptics already have enough support? Do they really need any help? Do we really need to interest more skeptics?

You can make something interesting without making it a joke. I fear stuff like this tho done with good intentions (hopefully) and high quality; in it's own way, does more damage than good.

We need to be finding ways to be taken more seriously not less. We already have an up hill climb as it is because everyone else in the media mocks conspiracy theories.. I don't think that is by accident..

I already have my copy...at least on iBooks, its cool, but kinda goes all over the place.They should hide more symbols and symbology, so we can Easter egg hunt in the graphics.

Scientist,Are you gonna touch on the murder of Pope John Paul I? And JFK and the other assassinations? Also,how about The Gemstone File.

just bought it for the ipad...

great art/story < huge understatement!

only complaint on my end is that the pages dont turn well (when you turn a page you get partial pages until you flick back and forth a couple times)... i haven't rebooted the ipad so let me try that as im typing this here

yep.. same issue... it not quite every page but like maybe 3/5, if anybody else is having this issue, i'm getting around it by flicking to the next page and then flicking back

other than that great, great sutff!

This is fantastic.

I particularly like the reference to "silent weapons for quiet wars".

As for the Barbara Bush/Aleister Crowley conspiracy.. I don't think it's too far fetched. Weren't Crowley and Pierce both on European trips during the time Barbara would have been conceived? And the mere fact that they were in the same social circle says a lot.. considering Crowley and his frequent sexual rituals, you'd probably be safe to assume most people who knew him personally were likely to have slept with him.

Great stuff.. looking forward to reading the whole thing

reply to post by scientist


Shut Up & Take My Money

I think that #'s awesome bro. Good going! I got something going on in the works too. We're actually the same in some ways. I really believe that. So pretty bad ass. We're all on our own road.

Here's a bit of mine. I also started releasing this 12/12/12. Please let me know what you think. There's a lot more than this, all with a mathematical foundation. Not saying that I understand it completely though. Just get glimpses of something bigger.

great work - sign me up - i'll buy.
you should try to get on the coast to coast show - they are a million + and completely nutz - ooops since i've been an insider since they started insider - guess i'm - uhhh - well uhhh - there are men in white coats here - wtf? - hey don't touch - keep away -there coming to take me away... i-i-i- don't want to go to the funny farm...

Originally posted by deadpool84
Let me get this straight your putting this up for $? PASS. There are plenty of online comics that are well received and generate fund from their community fan base and they dont charge a single penny. Some examples are Penny-arcade, Cyanide and happiness, and there are many others. I dont think this a great way for you to get exposure. Good Luck seems like you have a good concept.

I can relate to your frustration. I've stayed up late a few nights wondering how I could do this same project and release it for free. Unfortunately, without charging for the comic - it won't last very long. Everyone on the team for this comic is being paid for their work (editor, multiple writers, multiple artists, etc.). Even with charging for the comic, it would take over 5,000 sales to break even on just a single issue. Penny Arcade is a great example, however they are also a bit more advertiser-friendly. With 3.5 million readers and all-ages material, it's pretty reasonable that they have been able to sustain themselves on advertising alone. With the topics I'm trying to address, the amount of interested sponsors is extremely limited. Even more limited than the niche audience.

I appreciate the feedback, and the good luck. I promise if there is ever a way to do this project for free, I'll pursue it. Just haven't found a way yet, since I am not an illustrator (and unfortunately don't have any talented siblings to work for me either).

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
I don't mean to sound overly critical but this is something that I think you need to put a lot of thought into.

I am someone who plans on doing something similar and I worry that what you are doing could damage the ability of my work to be taken seriously.

My view is that you should change the name of the comics to something that sounds more respected and serious and makes the subject matter sound more serious not something that could be perceived as a joke.

Also, I think dealing with something like Barbara Bush and Disney being related to the occult and Nazis the way you did adds to the crazy stigma of conspiracy theorists. I DO think there is a way you can do it without it looking like it is a joke which it does IMO. Your art is very good but I don't think it fits the seriousness of the subject. This is what I am talking about with there being a huge responsibility in how you approach this.


... Don't the skeptics already have enough support? Do they really need any help? Do we really need to interest more skeptics? ...

I really do see your point, and can relate to it well. This project has indeed taken lots of thought and planning, and as for being more respected and serious, that's valid feedback although in the context of comic books, humor and hyperbole seem appropriate for the medium. There are so many reference materials and other serious approaches at the same content matter - but it always seems to cater to the same crowd (people like me, that have the patience and interest in spending months reading into dates/names/etc.) My goal here is to reach a completely different audience - and to lighten some of the very dark research with approachable art and satire.

Again, understand the concern and share many of them with you. Decided a few years ago that taking a more humor/entertainment based approach was a better fit, as opposed to the fire-and-brimstone or end-of-times POVs. When dealing with serious issues like Franklin Scandal (underage prostitution) or Nazis, it's very hard to not turn people away. Making it all a little less serious makes the research more approachable in my eyes, and that's the reason I've taken this approach going forward. Not trying to defend it or convince anyone of anything - just explaining the reasoning behind the decisions.

As for interesting more skeptics - I don't think opening a dialog is ever a bad thing. If skeptics want to refute that highly decorated Nazi officers were pardoned in Project Paperclip and ended up getting their own TV shows with Disney - then I look forward to any refutation they can come up with. Likewise with the social connections between occultists like Alesiter Crowley and a number of influential people in politics, industry, and media. At the same time, any skeptic arguing over whether or not Alexander Graham Bell created an army of "sheeple" to do his bidding, would probably be told to lighten up, since we're talking about a comic after all! Those are the same types of "skeptics" that get all worked up over comedy programs like the Daily Show or Colbert Report. For the record, I'm not against skepticism, I'm for it. However, just like "conspiracy theorist" has gotten a negative connotation, so has "skeptic."

Originally posted by foodstamp
let's keep it real...Some "theories" are a joke. And if your going to captivate an audience of both supporters and non-supporters of various "theories". Then I think the approach to how they written them is not only fantastic, but genius in it's effectiveness AND it's simplicity.

Couldn't agree with you more, and happy that you like the direction. As mentioned in detail above, I have gone to great lengths to try and give this as wide of an appeal as possible. The original script for the first issue was so dark, that a few writers and artists passed on it, because it made them uncomfortable. It's evolved over a few years to get to this point, and we're all really proud of what the final result was. Again, thanks for the support.

Originally posted by ihatecon
I think that #'s awesome bro. Good going! I got something going on in the works too. We're actually the same in some ways. I really believe that. So pretty bad ass. We're all on our own road.

Here's a bit of mine. I also started releasing this 12/12/12. Please let me know what you think. There's a lot more than this, all with a mathematical foundation. Not saying that I understand it completely though. Just get glimpses of something bigger.

Actually really love this, and would like to know more about your project. Send a PM, maybe we could even collaborate on something. I'm a huge fan of currency-based art. Almost like a perfect blend of sacred geometry and occult symbolism. Seems like a great idea for animation too.

Originally posted by jibajaba
you should try to get on the coast to coast show - they are a million +

Have certainly tried reaching out to them (and many others) over the months. Either our emails are getting caught in spam filters, or just not reaching someone interested enough to reach back out to us. I'll keep on trying - and if anyone reading this has a more direct connection to any radio shows/blogs/magazines/etc. that might be interested in reviewing or interviewing the comic/team, please let me know. This is a totally independent project, without any marketing or PR firms behind it whatsoever. So every suggestions for more exposure helps out a lot!

Originally posted by TheKeyMaster
reply to post by foodstamp

 

Don't the skeptics already have enough support? Do they really need any help? Do we really need to interest more skeptics?

You can make something interesting without making it a joke. I fear stuff like this tho done with good intentions (hopefully) and high quality; in it's own way, does more damage than good.

We need to be finding ways to be taken more seriously not less. We already have an up hill climb as it is because everyone else in the media mocks conspiracy theories.. I don't think that is by accident..

edit on 13-12-2012 by TheKeyMaster because: (no reason given)

I think you're giving this comic too much credit.

A skeptic will be skeptical regardless of what you put in front of him/her. And they will laugh, joke and ridicule even the evidence you bring forth on ANYTHING. I don't think that this comic is going to change that either way really, do you?

And on the issue of skeptics. Although I don't like how they seem to have their heads up their butts a lot of the time. I will say they are necessary in order to motivated further investigation into the desired subject/incident. Skeptics, as much as they anger me, have brought truth to MANY fallacies like on the subjects of the WTC's and UFO's.

Originally posted by foodstamp
reply to post by foodstamp

 

Imagine your life depended on something... would you want it to possibly be perceived as a joke? Do you realize that many people may perceive the subject of conspiracies as a joke in our society BECAUSE the powers that be have intentionally painted conspiracy theorists as jokes and loons?

So as i see it if we do the same we are damaging our own cause and helping them. It certainly doesn't help... comic books are not respected as a medium for this kind of thing either.. so you are compounding the issue IMO, This is why I honestly question what the intent of the maker is... are they really on our side or not?

I think you're giving this comic too much credit.

By saying that I think you are making my case for me...

A skeptic will be skeptical regardless of what you put in front of him/her. And they will laugh, joke and ridicule even the evidence you bring forth on ANYTHING. I don't think that this comic is going to change that either way really, do you?

If done well with a lot of thought put in why not? I don't think you understand the power of a comic book.. what you basically have is a low budget documentary for people who don't have the money or resources to do a real documentary. Do you think documentaries can change people's views? .If treated as a joke it can certainly reinforce that view from others who view conspiracy theorists as nothing more than "paranoid americans"

And on the issue of skeptics. Although I don't like how they seem to have their heads up their butts a lot of the time. I will say they are necessary in order to motivated further investigation into the desired subject/incident. Skeptics, as much as they anger me, have brought truth to MANY fallacies like on the subjects of the WTC's and UFO's.

If they were truly skeptics they'd question everything.

I appreciate your reply and believe your argument is well grounded. However, we will not be able to change each others minds considering we are debating "opinions" on both sides. Soooo, with that in mind.. Allow me to address this..

Imagine your life depended on something... would you want it to possibly be perceived as a joke? Do you realize that many people may perceive the subject of conspiracies as a joke in our society BECAUSE the powers that be have intentionally painted conspiracy theorists as jokes and loons?

I'm not to sure what your trying to say by asking me, hypothetically that, "If your life depended on something, Would I want it perceived as a joke?" but I will reply the best way I can as I understand it.

Everyday, I (We) go outside and will be confronted and attacked for various looks, beliefs, actions etc etc.. Everyday. To not be ridiculed or judge by your peers everyday would most likely mean that your probably dead or never go outside.

With that being said, I'd like to inform you that you are living in times where we have gone from people not even begining to understand that there even is a "Power that Be" to probably about half of the population thinking "Somethings not right." Mind you, this is in the course of about 15-20 years. I know this, because I was there, as I'm sure you were too, or perhaps your a bit younger. This feat alone of "people being informed" is not only an amazing revelation to the masses, but also a little miracle in itself! To see so many people question authority and look at things with a skeptical eye when it comes to government in itself is something you really would have never even fathomed in the 1980's. I sincerely believe that you have severely underestimated the change and awakening that has gone on my friend.

The controversy, ridicule, and jokes are a normal process of the mind(s) digesting and processing unbelievable amounts of information that have life changing realizations to them. It is very difficult my friend to wake up one morning thinking your an American, and wake up the next realizing that your just a UPC number to a handfull of corporations! This is something the mind has to learn to accept over time through finding out for themselves. These kind of realizations take time to form when it comes to the average human being and in this case, the majority of a population.

So, again, I disagree with your criticisms concerning this comic book. If we are to get the information/truth out. It must be given out in every form of media possible. And sometimes, you have to relate to the uninformed reader in terms that they understand. If that means not taking yourself to seriously, then so be it. The end result is the same.

reply to post by foodstamp


I just don't see the logic in it. I think there are other ways we can go to get our message across.

I used the example of having your own life in jeopardy as an example to show that something being portrayed as a joke isn't the way you would really deal with something that is imperative.

Those comedic images of serious subject matter desensitize people to these things.

My point was to show that if something is really serious to you, and of an imperative nature, you wouldn't want it taken as a joke.

And conversely if we portray something as a joke we are saying "this isn't imperative" and it is and should be treated as such.

reply to post by TheKeyMaster


Well I can't argue that. Your point is totally valid and to be respected...

You and I are on the same side of the fence when it comes to certain political issues I'm sure. But I've seen a lot (I'm assuming you have too) of sillyness in the conspiracy circles which I believe to destroy the truth movement in general MUCH WORSE than say a comic book ya know? But I understand where you're coming from I really do..

I take comfort in the idea that all the sillyness and ridicule that you and I and others have taken, and will continue to take when spreading truth, is merely a "self defense" mechanism against a very very grim reality. I could be wrong... I could be thinking too positive.... I hope not

Nice talkin' to ya on this point. I like it that on the rare occasion two people can come together and have a good debate without coming to insults and blows. I've grown more knowledgeable from this experience and hope you had the same experience.

I can relate to your frustration. I've stayed up late a few nights wondering how I could do this same project and release it for free. Unfortunately, without charging for the comic - it won't last very long. Everyone on the team for this comic is being paid for their work (editor, multiple writers, multiple artists, etc.). Even with charging for the comic, it would take over 5,000 sales to break even on just a single issue. Penny Arcade is a great example, however they are also a bit more advertiser-friendly. With 3.5 million readers and all-ages material, it's pretty reasonable that they have been able to sustain themselves on advertising alone. With the topics I'm trying to address, the amount of interested sponsors is extremely limited. Even more limited than the niche audience.

Bud, you should definatley try Alex Jones. He's not as "inaccessable" as one might think and he's an old school salesman. If you pull the right strings and stay persistant. This could definitely be a viable option.