Something super weird is going on with the Oregon shooting....

Originally posted by roguetechie
The complete myriad of insane coincidences and just plain ridiculous "facts" surrounding the case that we are supposed to just swallow is way beyond me!
not at all....there's only 1 real coincidence. The name's all starting with Ja. And that doesn't equal conspiracy.
I've read this whole thread. It's just people saying there's all these coincidence's when there aren't. List the coincidences for me....please.

WE need to wake up the people pulling the strings aren't even TRYING to put together a believable narrative and backstory to the incidents they use to influence the public into outright DEMANDING that their freedoms be taken away.
Wouldn't they try to put together a good story if they wanted to do this right? I feel this is evidence against a conspiracy.

Not only does this stink but the timing on dozens of levels just isn't right. Neither is the casualty count. Neither is someone walking in firing shots into the air and then declaring loudly "I AM THE SHOOTER".
What's wrong with the timing? and saying "I am a the shooter" sounds like something a crazy man would say...

Then there's the fact that the police are saying they did not fire any shots inside the mall yet it was plainly heard by an ats member that a bystander inside the mall pointed out a round on the ground.
(unknown whether it was spent or live but why would you drop a live round on the ground and not immediately pick it up?) Now the interesting part is that when this was brought up over the in the clear radio channel the round in question was identified as a .223 round and was further identified as a "department" round not one from the shooter...
This sounds like people just being uncoordinated, and not knowing exactly what's going on during emergency. Plus HOW do any of those things signify conspiracy? Explain your logic.

Also Note that even in the earliest reports coming out about this incident the only part of the story that didn't change was the press reporting that the shooter or shooters were using "Assault Rifles" and wearing "body armor" and most press agencies specifically identified the rifle as an AR 15 even in the early reports.

Now what you should find interesting about this is the fact that right now as we speak the obama administration and their allies inside the brady campaign are ramping up to try and gather the necessary support for a renewed and permanent assault weapons ban! And do you know what rifle is at the top of their list to ban?

Drumroll please..... THE AR 15!!!!

couldn't it be possible, that the gun people are worried about being used in massacres....could ya know, be used in massacres?

Look, I think the idea of Assault rifles is stupid. I thought it long before any shootings. You can't tell me ARs are for self-defense. What are they used for? Killing many people. That's EXACTLY what they were designed for.
Democrats don't need to use scare tactics to pass the legislation. The majority already support a semi-auto ban.....

A poll conducted in August 2012 found that 57% of those polled favor a ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of semi-automatic assault weapons.1 A June 2011 poll confirms support for a national assault weapons ban: 62% of Americans polled support a federal ban on the sale of assault weapons.2

link

Since 2011, a majority has supported a ban on assault rifles....
why kill people when a majority already supports it.

Maybe the weapons designed for mass killings are chosen because.....wait for it.....they are designed for mass killings?

reply to post by unphased


You know, I was thinking this shooting was fishy....but didn't know why. Didn't realize it was the same theater! Another thing that bugs me, and not just about this one. Anyone else notice how often these days, when there is a shooting, the shooter somehow manages to kill himself? MOST of the ones I have read about, that's what they report. Almost as if.....maybe....they had a self destruct in the programming....

well UFO.... here's the thing in legitimate rampage shootings where people just go bug**** nuts and start shooting people there has NEVER as near as I can tell been a case where the shooter fires their gun into the air several times and then declares out loud "I AM THE SHOOTER!" Possibly more than once depending on who's reports you believe.

The closest analog to this is James Holme's declaration that he was the joker last year...

If you had actually read my previous post you would see that there is a large body of very strange occurrences that go along with this case, especially if you have researched past rampage shootings which I have been doing for the better part of the past decade.

While some of the events were typical and basically follow the "script" of a normal rampage shooting other parts of this incident do not in any way fit normal circumstances.

One glaring question I have is why are we hearing no reports of anyone seeing this guy enter the mall in full gear with his rifle? (and a shotgun and a pistol as well according to some reports)

While stuff like this does sometimes legitimately happen and no matter why this incident happened it's still a tragedy, and in the wake of tragedies it's not just our right but our DUTY as free thinking citizens of a state that purports to espouse the ideals of freedom and self determination is to look into this incident to the best of our abilities and do our best to figure out WHY this happened and WHO it benefits...

There's just way too many question marks and outright nonsensical aspects to this story that are extremely reminiscent of the batman shootings. (which also do not make any amount of logical sense to anyone who is actually trained and proficient in the use of firearms or who has taken an abnormal psych class or two)

Also bear in mind that Portland does have a history with publicly acknowledged ENGINEERED incidents.

You'll note that the federal government outright admitted that the attempted "christmas tree bomber" from two years ago was systematically kept from obtaining gainful employment while being fed a tailored diet of extremist material and a constant litany of encouragement from undercover federal agents posing as radical islamics. He was then even supplied what he thought were viable materials to "commit his crime" by federal agents, and was then shortly thereafter arrested and paraded before the press as a SUCCESS and a VICTORY in the war on terror!!!!

Now how is it that a victory? when someone who even according to the government agencies that arrested him had no meaningful contact with actual islamic militants and who they quite literally had to go to extreme efforts to sabotage his living situation in order to make him receptive to the teachings of militant islam being pressed onto him by federal agents pretending to be militants?

By any RATIONAL and SANE definition what they did to secure this imaginary "victory" in the war on terror went so far beyond what would have been considered entrapment if they had done the same thing to bust a white collar criminal or even a wannabe drug dealer!!!


So yeah actually we are PERFECTLY sane to look at this incident and see all of the things that really do not make any logical sense when held up to the light of close scrutiny!

Not just that but we must also question if we already know by the federal governments own admission that they are willing to go that far to CREATE a "THREAT" so they can hold a press conference and try to justify in the minds of the populace the BILLIONS we now spend on invasive and downright freedom destroying federal agencies..... how far do YOU think they'd be willing to go to get people to not only agree to one more loss of freedom but actually stand up and LOUDLY DEMAND that they take this freedom away?

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
You have to wonder how some guy wearing all black and a black ski mask carrying a rifle manages to get to the
second floor food court without alerting any mall security.

Did he enter from the theatre?

All black? Ski mask? Odd.....the videos I watched a few hours ago stated he was in all camo and some sort of white plastic mask. That, I could see, as many wear camo, and a mask could be in a cargo pocket. What I really want to know is how he got the gun(s) in unnoticed. Of course, depending on the mall and security, that could be easy.

Still think a LOT of these shootings are planned, to push more security to "protect" the people. Again, I ask, has anyone else noticed how many shooters these days self destruct?

Oh and one more thing ... for those of you who are interested in the state of the art of public opinion shaping one should look into what I've heard termed "perception management" firms that are contracted by large corporations, NGO's and reportedly even some governments to aid in shaping public opinion and support for key issues and products!

These guys are so far beyond your rank and file PR firms as to be a completely different animal altogether.

Now in addition to this look into the USS liberty attack or the gulf of tonkin non incident or any number of other incidents where the US government has been caught red handed outright lying, cheating, and even killing people to get the public to support what they want to do. Once you've done this sit down and do some soul searching and tell me that the at the very MOST less than a hundred people a year killed in rampage shootings would bother these same people in the slightest to orchestrate if it could GET THEM WHAT THEY WANT.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by PaperbackWriter

 

Can you source or substantiate a single word of that?

Are you implying that the "Feds" shoot up theaters and malls as part of "role playing exercises"???

If so, to what end?

~Heff

I don't think anyone has proof, but as to end? Well, one could speculate that this is part of the plan for total removal of the 2'nd Amendment, and total "security" every place we go. Body scanners in the malls next?

reply to post by unphased


So we have two different pictures from two different slaughters on two different dates and times. If this had happened at Mcdonalds would you still see a connection? I'm not sure what's scarier, the so called connection you have made here or how many believe it.

There are things going on in the world that are much wilder than this right now.

Some of you are putting alot of energy into looking into why this doesn't add up. Its a distraction, plain and simple. When the MSM puts its full focus into Jean Benne Ramsay, Trayvon Martin, Casey Anthony or any one particular person/incident turn that s*** off and go find out what they are not covering from an alternative news source.

reply to post by Hanrak77


It scares the # out of me. There's a brainwashed group who keep saying there's tons of coincidences and won't name them....
and everything they say flies in the face of logic.

My post at the top of this page is perfect. I hope people read it to see how ridiculous this all is.

I conclude with the fact that the majority already support a semi-auto ban....and they have for a while. The whole purported purpose of this "conspiracy" isn't founded on any rationale.

reply to post by Ghost375


and you do know that they word those polls to make people believe that they are talking about fully automatic weapons right?

and No assault rifles are NOT about killing loads of people!!!

If that were the case and those weapons were in some way imbued with a malevolent spirit then please explain how the county I spent my teenage years and early 20's in had as of the early 90's twice as many assault rifles as they had people and yet has NOT ONCE had a rampage shooting?

Or how about the fact that what you don't hear about is the MILLIONS of these legally owned rifles are used in a responsible and safe manner every year for the immense enjoyment of their owners without any deaths?

Or how about the fact that even according to the SUPREME COURT the 2nd ammendment only protects your right to own and operate MILITARILY USEFUL weapons? Yes you heard that right! The landmark case in the supreme court which all modern gun control legislation stems from and uses as the anchor chain of their legal precedent was only lost by the defendant because the weapon they were in possession of ( a sawed off shotgun)
was not found anywhere in the arsenals of our military or national guard at the time and was hence not deemed to be protected by the second amendment!!!!

Now you go ahead and sit there and try to tell me I have no right to own as many "assault rifles" as I damn well want to have!

OH THAT'S RIGHT YOU CAN'T!!! Because at the heart of it groups like the brady campaign and etc that promote the idea that banning semi automatic weapons will somehow make the world a safer place rely on LIES, PROPAGANDA, and KNEE JERK EMOTIONAL REACTIONS.

While incidents like this are indeed a true tragedy no amount of gun bans will "fix" this issue... Or have you not read about the KNIFE rampages that claim WAY MORE than the 3 lives this incident claimed?
march 2012 KNIFE RAMPAGE IN CHINA LEAVES 20 DEAD!

Basing your argument off of the logical fallacy and complete ignorance that there is no legitimate use for a semi automatic weapon with a high capacity magazine not only makes you look stupid but also shows utterly easily you can be USED in the pursuit of moving forward the agenda of powerful people which has nothing at all to do with public safety and everything to do with creating a situation where the populace at large not only cannot fight back if those in power go too far but are also COMPLETELY DEPENDENT on a police force that the supreme court has ruled has NO DUTY TO PROTECT YOU ONLY A DUTY TO ENFORCE THE LAW AFTER IT"S BEEN BROKEN WHICH IN THE CASE OF VIOLENT CRIMES USUALLY MEANS THROWING YOUR NOW PERFORATED CORPOREAL FORM INTO AN AMBULANCE OR A BODY BAG!!!
2005 SUPREME COURT RULING: POLICE HAVE NO DUTY TO PROTECT THE CITIZENRY ONLY A DUTY TO ENFORCE THE LAW

So you can feel free to trust these people but DON"T YOU DARE attempt to say your naked ignorance about all things firearm related and your sanctimonious and KNEE JERK EMOTIONAL push to see something you don't have any understanding of banned is based in any sort of logic or concern for the wellbeing of your fellow man!

reply to post by Ghost375

Y'all are being paranoid. You WANT a conspiracy! End of story.

To quote Jim Butcher - “Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face.”

But in all seriousness, why does it matter to you? We aren't hurting anyone by speculation. And these pages do actually include much more than what you listed. There are not pages after pages of people asking "Why malls and theaters?". That was asked, once, maybe twice, if I missed one time.

I'm not saying that there is a conspiracy here, I, along with all of the rest, am simply linking events that seem suspicious.

Maybe we're wrong...but it doesn't affect you if we are.

Originally posted by jacktorrance

And these pages do actually include much more than what you listed. There are not pages after pages of people asking "Why malls and theaters?".

Quote it then....I've read it all.
Quote it.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
You have to wonder how some guy wearing all black and a black ski mask carrying a rifle manages to get to the
second floor food court without alerting any mall security.

Did he enter from the theatre?

All black? Ski mask? Odd.....the videos I watched a few hours ago stated he was in all camo and some sort of white plastic mask. That, I could see, as many wear camo, and a mask could be in a cargo pocket. What I really want to know is how he got the gun(s) in unnoticed. Of course, depending on the mall and security, that could be easy.

Still think a LOT of these shootings are planned, to push more security to "protect" the people. Again, I ask, has anyone else noticed how many shooters these days self destruct?

He didn't get them in unnoticed. One of the "witnesses" stated they were sitting by the front door (of Macy's),
and saw him with the gun slung over his shoulder like a "backpack".
Whatever that means. A back holster maybe?

So no attempt to hide it.
Stores like Macy's hire their own store security during the holidays soooo, don't know how that got by without raising some eyebrows.

There were several different descriptions given by other "witnesses".
There were reports in the beginning of three people.

It seems very possible to me that they were dressed in the alternate outfits.
But, left and for all I know and suspect came out and started giving the narrative to the press.

It seems like a straight up role-playing game that is being passed off as "live" for the propaganda value.
There is no way that 4 SWAT teams showed up in about a minute which is what the Sheriff said and what
witnesses said.
That doesn't happen unless they were already in on the action.

reply to post by roguetechie


You read into my post and ONLY read what you wanted to hear.
You're the ignorant one....
How about you respond to my main points and not freak out about the conclusion....and you freaked out hardcore.

Basing your argument off of the logical fallacy and complete ignorance that there is no legitimate use for a semi automatic weapon with a high capacity magazine

I didn't say there's no legitimate use for one....
I said they are designed primarily for killing many people. That's all. If you want to debate that point, well go for it.

You flipped the # out.

All my talk about ARs were to point out they don't need to commit a heinous act to sway public opinion that semi-autos should be banned. It was a conclusion....my main points are much bigger.
I had many points before that that negated what you said about their being a conspiracy.
I explained why there wasn't a conspiracy. And you completely missed it when semi-autos were mentioned.


I don't even really support a ban on them....
All I said was they're stupid.
BUT I think all weapons are stupid and killing in any form......but I would NEVER let anyone remove our second amendment, because I know what they would do afterwards.....
I was just saying I understand the argument against them....because I'm not brainwashed and can look at both sides of an argument without flipping the # out.

Oh and for those of you keeping score on this thread ... Here is the supreme court decision where the supreme court declared that the 2nd amendment does not guarantee you the right to a sawed off shotgun because it's not militarily useful.

UNITED STATES VS MILLER


See unlike ghost I actually do work to refute the points others make while apparently ghost has decided that they do not have to do that because obviously we should just trust their say so.... Either that or they CAN'T actually refute my assertions....

Either way it's pretty obvious here who has a deep and thorough knowledge on the subject at hand versus who just wants to come in spouting talking points without anything of real substance to back up said talking points...

reply to post by roguetechie


Read my post....
I'm not going to refute counter-arguments to arguments I didn't make.
So no, you didn't refute any argument I made.

You made up my argument as being something I wasn't saying.

The weirdest report I saw today was the CNN correspondant outside trying to explain why there were all these
cars parked in the parking lot.

He starts out by saying that the mall is closed. Every time they checked in with him it's still packed with parked cars in the lot.

Finally, he ends up saying that well, all these people left their bags and purses on the floor and then trails off lamely.

Like they all showed up to pick them up? Why would they have left their purses on the floor in the first place?
I never believed the reports of there being 10,000 shoppers in the first place. On a Tuesday at 3ish pm?

Anyway, he came back saying that there stuff would be fine but they probably wouldn't be able to come and collect them for a couple of days, still not explaining why there was a parking lot jammed with cars.

It made me think that they brought in a bunch of cars from impound to make it look like there was a bunch of people there. In the only video I've seen taken by a customer it showed a group of women with their hands in the air meeting another group of women with their hands in the air, cops escourting them out.
Not a single one had a shopping bag or a even a purse.

It looked pretty sketchy.

I also found it strange when I heard from the Santa who was right there in the food court.
He claimed he heard shots. He never claimed he saw anything he only heard what he "later realized" were shots being fired.
Why? If it happened right there how come he never saw anything?
He never mentions any kids and what they did either. Or what their parents did.
Just a few observations.

Could be just another mentally ill person that wanted to be a copy cat, its happened before. It is still interesting though!

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter


Why were there 4 SWAT teams ready to arrive within minutes?

Because they knew it was going to happen. Same as the theater shooting.

Many years ago when living in the city, they had a shooter hole himself up in an apartment building, threatening to kill a woman and himself. It took 45 min for SWAT to even get on the scene, and even after they arrived, they were not totally ready.

reply to post by Ghost375


LOL silly no it's you that has NOT ONCE managed to refute anything I have asserted as a fact or as informed speculation. Not just that but you so adroitly outed yourself as someone who is more interested in spouting the party line then getting to the bottom of the subject at hand when you went on your semi automatic weapons have no business existing diatribe....