Vertical Chem Trails ( What will they think of next? )

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by flyswatter

 

I have a question. if you have a long pole laying on the ground and you stand it upright so it's 70 degrees upright from where it was laying a moment ago and then you put a small , tiny jet engine on it and it flies away 70 degree or 20 degrees from being a rocket ( 90 degrees ) at 70 degrees in your opinion is it horizontal or vertical? more horizontal or more vertical? etc this has nothing to do with it flying toward me or away from me

You didnt answer any question, but thats OK. You are comparing apples to oranges here, and you dont seem to grasp the concept of perspective. I could go outside and take a picture of every single contrail that I see in the sky, and if I take the proper angle when taking the photo, I can make every single one of them look "vertical" by your definition. If we looked at it from your point of view, anything that is on track to be flying closer to you is going to be flying "upwards" and anything on track to fly away from you would be flying "down".

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by flyswatter

 

I have a question. if you have a long pole laying on the ground and you stand it upright so it's 70 degrees upright from where it was laying a moment ago and then you put a small , tiny jet engine on it and it flies away 70 degree or 20 degrees from being a rocket ( 90 degrees ) at 70 degrees in your opinion is it horizontal or vertical? more horizontal or more vertical? etc this has nothing to do with it flying toward me or away from me

It's at 70 degrees. The "verticalness" is a semantic distinction. If that's the issue, then let's just talk in terms of degrees.

To clarify what I'm saying, the contrails in your first image are almost certainly within five degrees of horizontal, and most likely are nearly perfectly horizontal. i.e. they are caused by normal planes in normal level flight.

reply to post by CherubBaby


He means no chemtrails. The planes are not out to get us and the govt is not poisoning the air to control us or make us dumb and floride will prevent cavities if you brush regular.

reply to post by Uncinus


so for the 9th time is it vertical or horizontal? and do you mind proving it is within 5 degrees of horizontal. I really would like to see a rabbit come out of the hat tonight cause I just emailed the op and Nellis A.F.B. is within 15 miles. and I do think the "Twist" on the one trail is somewhat uncommon .

reply to post by CherubBaby


No because chemtrails are technically possible. It is only 'wrong' when something is being portrayed as something it isn't.

If your picture being two dimensional means it cannot prove your belief that the trails are vertical,then it must follow that it also cannot prove that they are not. However I am familiar with trails, as I am with photography, and I have seen enough optical illusions in my life to say that they are 'probably' horizontal. If you can somehow travel around a vertical trail photographing it from different viewpoints with some ground level perspective for comparison then I would find that fascinating. If I see one I will certainly attempt the same.

reply to post by flyswatter

Completely wrong again. I find it funny instead of asking me what I think your batting 0' ZIP at guessing it.

reply to post by CherubBaby

i don't know what your getting at. you seem to beleive in chemtrails and thats fine if your that way inclined.
do chemtrail planes have flying capabilities that our normal planes dont?

ive no reason to think these arent just normal planes that are shooting out contrails at angles you cant seem to comprehend.
i dont see what your argument is.

reply to post by waynos


AT best I call this one a draw then because like they have already said, it's perspective? But I will bet you ask 100 strangers what they perceive in that pic and those trails and most will agree with me , they don't look horizontal. And never will..

reply to post by CherubBaby


Maybe, but a given number of people thinking something is so, doesn't make it so. Still, if the picture is now done to death and we leave it to individuals to make their own mind up, what would you say is the significance of a vertical trail? Do you have any thoughts of what type of aircraft might create one? It would need to be something with a thrust to weight ratio (TWR) of greater than 1:1, so that would rule out most known aircraft and all large types such as transports.

reply to post by CherubBaby


Just because you perceive them as vertical, doesn't mean they are. The last few weeks, I've seen just about every type of contrail imaginable, quite a few I hadn't seen before. Several of them appeared to be going straight up, but they were being left by commercial airliners, so there was no way that they were. It's just a matter of perspective.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Signature that's nice, I can't and won't deny you saw trails that looked vertical being left by passenger jets. But you didn't see these. so we are speculating again.

PS: saying with respect ::

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by Uncinus

 

so for the 9th time is it vertical or horizontal? and do you mind proving it is within 5 degrees of horizontal. I really would like to see a rabbit come out of the hat tonight cause I just emailed the op and Nellis A.F.B. is within 15 miles. and I do think the "Twist" on the one trail is somewhat uncommon .

I already said the trails are almost certainly horizontal.

Consider if it (the plane in the upper left) was a plane climbing at 45 degrees, let's say it's a jet moving at 500 mph, that mean it would gain 5 miles of altitude per minute. Let's say that little trail only represents a minute of travel at 45 degrees. There are several reasons why this scenario is highly improbable, but the simplest is that the atmosphere is not even, so it would not have left an even contrail over that range.

The twist is not uncommon. It occurs when the plane moves though rotating air masses, like these:

example:

Originally posted by CherubBaby
CHECKMATE

Wow. I don't follow that move at all.

Okay, try this (it probably wont work, but, oh well, believe what you want).

If those are vertical the bottom of the trail is closer to you.
The top is further away.

Why is there no perspective effect on the top of the trail to make it appear further away from you?

Also, if it were a vertical trail, don't you think there would greater distortion due to winds at the top of the trail being different to the bottom of it?

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by flyswatter

 

Completely wrong again. I find it funny instead of asking me what I think your batting 0' ZIP at guessing it.

It's not a matter of what you think, its a matter of using your reasoning. There's a big difference. We already know what you think, you've said it several times in this thread.

Horizontal contrails often appear vertical due to perspective. It's not rocket science, and really isn't debatable at all. Contrails can also be vertical, I dont think that is debatable either. The problem is when you sit here and say "It's vertical!" and there really isn't anything to show that is the case. We just really dont know either way in this case, because a horizontal contrail can appear exactly the same.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by waynos

 

The other point of view? Is that the one that says if you believe in chem trails you are wrong?

so am I wrong when I say you can't prove they are not vertical and I cant prove they are. Surely you would agree that is accurate. Wouldn't you?

If you cannot "prove" something then you need to acknowledge possibilities and probabilities.

I CAN prove that a horizontal line, rotated 90 degreed, "looks" vertical.

I hope you are not disputing that??

We do know that aircraft fly horizontaly for the vast majority of their flying tiime. Very few can fly vertically at all under any circumstances - obviously VTOL ones can, and high performance ones like tre Lightening, F-15 and simlar can - but (appart from helicopters and backpacks) I cannot think off hand of any civil aircraft that can fly vertically.

SO......ther are well knownand common circumstances when a contrail can look like it is vertical.

the circumstances we know of when a contrails would BE vertical are severely limited.

Given that a photo such as has been produced on here is 2-D, the balance of probabilities must be that it is is horizontal contrail that appears vertical bexcause of the persepective.

You are right to say that it MIGHT be an actual for-real-vertical contrail.

But that is very unlikely, and, IMO, by failing to acknowledge the probabilities you just make yourself look obstinate and unreasonable.

Sky today was breeze clear blue with no chemtrails, none but why?...I did see lot of aircraft flying today..But why other day there were lots of chemtrail. I work outdoor, little skeptic about chemtrails and I notice it strange... Back on Nov, 28th heavy chemtrails all over..like an assault. There other day I see chemtrails every between 8:45am to 11:30am and 2pm to 4:30pm. Chemtrails do expand . I am confuse and is still skeptic..

It's official. Common sense and basic intelligence have been programmed out of the average American brain.

reply to post by Screenlearner


Because weather changes. That's not facetiousness, its a simple fact. It is also important to understand that airline schedules are fixed and regular so you don't get 'no planes' or 'more planes', you get variable temperatures and humidity.

reply to post by Screenlearner


it has to do with the temperature and the moisture of the air

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


hehe, you said that, a fighter jet can do vertical trails and that's what it is.
not a perspective rotation makes them look vertical, they are vertical !!
they are not from a commercial plane you all get as basis to explain them

I haven't seen it the first time aether, but they are vertical

btw. check my earlier posts