MI House Passes Right-to-Work Measure While Teachers Skip School to Protest

reply to post by DarthMuerte


hahaha Princess Pelosi! Priceless!

Anyway, I saw the vid today of that Union thug hitting the journalist. It's the same thing as the SEIU thuggery during the Tea Party rallies. and some jerk was on the news trying to pin it on the journalist and defend this union nonsense. Typical stuff.

reply to post by macman
Ummm.....I actually think that unions have served their purpose. I'm no longer in one and wouldn't join if I was paid to. I have too much pride in self and ability to ever go that route again. I especially think that public sector unions should be shut out, down and sideways. There are so many more ethical people out there in the labor force that would fill those positions in a heartbeat. If we protect whistleblowers and have real teeth in employee protections from an enforcement standpoint then there is no need for a union. All of that being said, I think that private unions should be outlawed as well, and those bums thrown to the wolves like everyone else. The Dems love to rag on about leveling the playing field, well lets start there......

YouSir

Anybody think about how unions were during the time of their inception? Back in 1940whenever, when employers back then didn't need to hide behind any laws or public relations campaigns or anything like that in order to let workers know that the worker was disposable, and that your severed arm stuck in the dysfunctional table saw is nothing but blood to be mopped up off the floor? It was more of an established societal, political and industry norm for workers to be used up and tossed aside without compensation.
When the workers raised such a ruckus and the unions were established, i think they were really for the workers, led by individuals who worked hard for the rights of workers. But then sometime throughout history, something in these institutions have been corrupted Either the pressures of a capitalist and materialist society or a government that has made it extremely hard for any policies on behalf of the workers to be passed has drawn in union leaders that are similar to your average politician along with, or they have been intentionally infiltrated by TPTB to make sure morale and policy that ONLY advocates for workers rights have been subverted by the desire for the allmighty $.
Unions these days seem to not really do anything but aid in chopping up an already thoroughly chopped check. Yet another great idea for the greater good corrupted by greed at all levels.

Anybody think about how unions were during the time of their inception? Back in 1940whenever, when employers back then didn't need to hide behind any laws or public relations campaigns or anything like that in order to let workers know that the worker was disposable, and that your severed arm stuck in the dysfunctional table saw is nothing but blood to be mopped up off the floor? It was more of an established societal, political and industry norm for workers to be used up and tossed aside without compensation.
When the workers raised such a ruckus and the unions were established, i think they were really for the workers, led by individuals who worked hard for the rights of workers. But then sometime throughout history, something in these institutions have been corrupted Either the pressures of a capitalist and materialist society or a government that has made it extremely hard for any policies on behalf of the workers to be passed has drawn in union leaders that are similar to your average politician along with, or they have been intentionally infiltrated by TPTB to make sure morale and policy that ONLY advocates for workers rights have been subverted by the desire for the allmighty $.
Unions these days seem to not really do anything but aid in chopping up an already thoroughly chopped check. Yet another great idea for the greater good corrupted by greed at all levels.

Wow such a heated debate! As a unionized city worker, I'm kind of on the fence on this one. My union is pretty worthless but I do like the fact that they would have my back if I legitimately needed them. Lot of public employee haters here at ATS too! I would like to see some of you deal with 25+ mostly disrespectful brats, thugs, clowns and potheads. Teaching is supposed to work hand in hand with parenting, it's not meant to raise the kids.
So sad to see everyone at eachothers throats over this issue.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
Link

The Republican-controlled Michigan House has passed one of two contentious "right-to-work" bills, as union protesters flooded the capital and hundreds of teachers called out of work to participate in the demonstrations. The measure approved Tuesday morning deals with public-sector workers. Another bill focusing on the private sector was approved last week, when the Senate OK'd both bills. When final versions have cleared the House, they'll go to Republican Gov. Rick Snyder for his expected signature as early as Wednesday. Coinciding with the votes were massive and noisy protests both inside and outside the Capitol from pro-union demonstrators. Thousands descended upon downtown Lansing to rally against the legislation that prohibits requiring nonunion employees to financially support unions at their workplace. The move would make Michigan the 24th "right-to-work" state and strike a blow to organized labor in the heart of the U.S. auto industry. Earlier in the day, two state school districts closed after hundreds of teachers called out.

Congratulations to Michigan. They have both the largest union membership and the worst unemployment numbers in the country. Hopefully, this will bring some employers back to the state.
Regarding the teachers calling out; fire them all. Every union teacher that called out and robbed the children they are supposed to be educating needs to be fired on the spot. There are many unemployed teachers all over the country who would be happy to take their jobs. There are even more unemployed college graduates that would gladly fill any remaining open positions. Fire them all and hire only non-unio teachers from that point forward. The children will thank you for getting those leeches out of the system and replacing them with people who actually want to teach.

edit on Tue Dec 11 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: added MI to title

Hey just so happen to be related to a couple Michigan teachers. They both have master degrees. They both practically live paycheck to paycheck. They don't make much at all.

I would hestate to call a teacher a greedy leech when you consider how much education it requires to be a teacher and how much work it is to be a teacher during work day and late into the night correcting homework. And when you compare how much the average teacher makes w/the majority of other profession in the same degree range, you quickly realize how many of these people do it b/c they feel like its a calling. they certainly dont do it for the money.

Thank heavens me and my wife decided not to live in the states, and went to her native country - Switzerland.

Look, I lived in Alabama for 31 years. It is a right to work state. Good luck living there without having two or three jobs, because very few jobs pay a living wage (and most of those expect you to work through lunches, and work 80 hours a week anyways). I have a Bachelor's in accounting, and was once forced to eat a pay demotion from 13 dollars an hour to 8 dollars an hour along with everyone else (the same pay you get working at Mcdonalds) so that the company brass could make more profits.

And for those of you saying: Well just quit, and find a better job! The better jobs are government jobs, every public sector job is like the one I had. Some even worse, with no real vacation (because they expect you to work during your vacation anyways).

Unions are often corrupt, but their existence provides tons of benefits for employees. Without them, this is where you will consistently be. Because the companies will have zero to fear from anyone.Don't expect your company to care about you, it is their priority to make as much profit as possible - which entails giving you the least amount they can get away with, both law-wise and competition wise. If you think competition from other companies will weed out these sort of corporations, think again. Other companies tend to sink to the competition level when it comes to wages. Sometimes it seems like they are competing with each other to see just how low they can go.

Now I live in Switzerland, where one person working can support both families. And Switzerland is very competitive, the unemployment rate is at 3% here.

reply to post by macman


It's a right to be a crappy parent? When that affects someone else's well being it is not. That is the most idiotic statement I have ever read on the history of coming to this website. Absolutely moronic.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

It is an indirect reference to the events of 9-11-2001, and that is why I commented about it.

So indirect reference means I referenced it directly???

Honestly, you are grasping now.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
What kind of freedom for security are we trading with unions and how the hell was it even on topic

On topic, as the Unions seem to be losing their stranglehold on MI and Detroit.
I don't know, maybe trading the ability to make your own decisions as an employee, instead of trading that to the "collective'.
Giving up the freedom to negotiate your own pay, instead of relying on the "collective".
Giving up your freedom to chose to join or not join a Union to begin with.

There are many more, Shall I go on????

reply to post by YouSir


Yes, I can see their purpose when first created. But, there is no need for them other then to amass power and push an agenda.

reply to post by imawlinn


They chose to be a teacher. They can chose to be something else.
I am tired of hearing people bitch and moan about how tough teaching is when they chose that profession.

reply to post by NoJoker13


Yes, as that is personal freedom.
You have the right to be the worst parent ever, so long as criminal laws are not violated.
There are no laws stating you have to be a good parent. Or even decent for that matter.

Just as you have the personal freedom to be a racist, bigot or lover of all.
You have the freedom to hate people, be mean or be happy and nice.

If Union workers had the right to disband disfunctional uinions, the Labor situation would be a lot better. However, all the union people I know are so focused on their own self interest that they would bring down the whole
country to keep their pockets full.


Who bankrupted San Bernadino? Police and firefighter unions that got rich, then bought the city council to get richer.

Well, It says a lot about the country you live in when teaching is a bad profession to be in. The U.S. has always had a strong anti-intellectual streak. I have several acquaintances who teach in Europe and one in Korea. They have never complained about their pay. They love their jobs, they are respected and well paid. They are doing better than they ever would here in their profession. In this country, I know college professors who can qualify for food stamps. 35K a year to teach college. What a joke. A tip to all intelligent people: Don't teach, it's not worth your time. I never will. I tutored Music Theory for ages, I'm not bad at teaching but I don't feel like being spat on as a profession all my life.

If you all stopped teaching and they were left with the dregs maybe they would change their tune.

gee, i wonder if the koch brothers and the other billionaires had anything to do with this?.....duh

here's something nobody will see on 60 minutes, in theaters, or on TV...and with all this "liberal media bias" you would think this would be the most promoted film in history!!.......NOT.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

It is an indirect reference to the events of 9-11-2001, and that is why I commented about it.

So indirect reference means I referenced it directly???

Honestly, you are grasping now.

The point is you were making irrellevant corellations, I called you out and now you are backtracking.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
What kind of freedom for security are we trading with unions and how the hell was it even on topic

On topic, as the Unions seem to be losing their stranglehold on MI and Detroit.
I don't know, maybe trading the ability to make your own decisions as an employee, instead of trading that to the "collective'.
Giving up the freedom to negotiate your own pay, instead of relying on the "collective".
Giving up your freedom to chose to join or not join a Union to begin with.

There are many more, Shall I go on????

If you really believe any of that nonsense then you are naive and do not understand how the world works. I have no intention of teaching you anything other than providing some clues. Business looks to maximise profits at any opportunity and I don't blame them. I run a business and do the same thing.

Unions step in with collective bargaining and provide leveraged talks by using the strength in numbers of all the union members and the power people have abdicated to the bosses. Unions are less corrupt than business. Go watch some bildgerberger meetings and come back to me with something more original. Forgot you don't have the need to know private first class.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07


The point is you were making irrellevant corellations, I called you out and now you are backtracking.

Nope, not really.

You applying 9-11 to my question of do you back the Patriot Act is yours, not mine.
Will you answer the question, or just deflect some more?

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07


If you really believe any of that nonsense then you are naive and do not understand how the world works.

Yep, me to dumb to get it.
Me no understand how big world works.
Me no understand just how great union is.
Me no see how wonderful company with full union is doing, compared to non-union company.
Me no see how Union thugs treat others.
Me no understand just how wonderful it is and for my best interest it is to be forced into union.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07 I have no intention of teaching you anything other than providing some clues.

Oh geez, thank you sir.
Can I have some more porridge as well??

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Business looks to maximise profits at any opportunity and I don't blame them.

Yes they do, and it appears that you do blame them.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I run a business and do the same thing.

Yeah, I believe that.
You should be forcing your workers to create a Union and allow them to dictate to you how the company is run.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Unions step in with collective bargaining and provide leveraged talks by using the strength in numbers of all the union members and the power people have abdicated to the bosses.

So, you trade a boss from the company for an additional boss of the union.
Yeah, that sounds wonderful.
I love being shackled to all the other workers for pay raises and benefits.
Again, it sounds as if those in unions are either too afraid or lazy to be dependent on themselves to deal with an employer.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Unions are less corrupt than business.

lol::lo l:

Now that is funny.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Go watch some bildgerberger meetings and come back to me with something more original. Forgot you don't have the need to know private first class.

Private First Class????
WOW, wrong on so many other things, then just shown to be wrong on yet another thing.
Was never in, nor am I in the Army.

And yeah, Unions are the saving bastion of the people from the evil Bildgerberger threat.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
I don't think it's right to force anyone to join any union. But the right to work Bullspit is also garbage. The employer should not have the right to "Close off" Any employee because they're union (this is done here in Florida at wal mart) No Union people will be hired at a wal mart in florida and no union is allowed to try and get wal mart workers to join a union, also if you decide You think you want to join a union, in florida, wal mart will then fire you (and they're the only ones that actually give you breaks down here) So either way to the extreme is very bad. I don't know how it will play out at MI I guess only time will tell. As it says now the way it reads looks innocent enough, but I have learned a lot of double talk in these bills or you know, the fine print over these many years, we shall see.

It seems to me that what you are asking for in freedom of choice that only goes one way. Why should an employee have the freedom to be part of a union but an employer not have the right to not employ a union worker? IMHO, the employee and the employer both have rights and if they cannot come to a mutually beneficial agreement, either side should be free to terminate the relationship.

Originally posted by jimmyx
gee, i wonder if the koch brothers and the other billionaires had anything to do with this?.....duh

here's something nobody will see on 60 minutes, in theaters, or on TV...and with all this "liberal media bias" you would think this would be the most promoted film in history!!.......NOT.

www.youtube.com...

And George Soros supports labor unions and labor union supporters. I guess since he is a billionaire, and he supports the AFL-CIO, then unions must be a lacky by TPTB too.

I have lived around a bit, and i can say that in all the "right to work" states i have lived in, the situations are deplorable. Here, in new orleans, the wages are sad. There is no representation here at all, and that means that the vast majority of jobs pay minimum wage. At the same time, the cost of living is quite high comparatively. When i lived in states with unions, even though i was never in one, the wages were drastically higher across the board. It makes a HUGE difference in the average living standard, as well as peoples feelings of fullfilment, hopelessness, opportunity. When right to work came to La and destroyed the unions, all the skilled laborers in oil and metalworking and such down here were replaced with unskilled cheap labor, and the standard of work went to crap. We also lost all of the apprenticeship programs that helped folks with little education or money get trained for jobs that, at the time, provided decent living wages. This is what "Right to Work" destroyed.

To people who think "It's a new day, we dont need unions", just look at the sweat shops in china, child labor in south america, and blood tech/diamond industries in africa. Those are the very same companies that are trying to, and succeeding in, tearing down labor rights and protections here. The unions are the workers ONLY real protection. In the field i have been working in for the past 15 years (medical), i can tell you that there have been no raises for the past 5 years in most hospitals, even as inflation soars. They have continually been tasking us with more and more work, for less and less compensation, cutting our health benefits until almost all of my medical bills are out of pocket, giving no bonuses the way they used to, getting rid of secrateries and janitors and tasking us with their job at no extra pay. And, of course, business shifted the burden of retirement on to us long ago. This is a long term trend, and if it continues our childrens standard of living will be much poorer than ours. You can spouse "Freedom" all you want, however, we also deserve freedom from predatory, opportunistic corporatism. And the idea that you can just go find another job is garbage because the corporate greed illness is systemic. We dont live in a free market, we live in a monopolistic oligarchy, and your pretending that we do will not make it so. If my choice is to go work for predatory corporation a, predatory corporation b, or predatory corporation c, thats not much of an option. It has to change. There is nothing wrong with wanting a system where the majority has a reasonable opportunity for success and fullfilment. To ridicule people because we live in a system where this is obviously, statistically, preponderously not so, and they have failed to succeed in it, just as have 500 million of their contemporaries is cruel, abusive, elitist, and arrogant. Its ridiculous to act like others are stupid or wrong for feeling that our system has become one sided, corrupted, and unacceptably unfair. This is the truth of the situation, and people are trying to express this all over.