I know what Abraham saw. I know What he Witnessed and What Happened to Sodom.

reply to post by ericblair4891


When something is hit with sulphuric acid does it first turn white, like it's salt?

reply to post by ericblair4891

Genesis 19 26
"But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt."
I say she was a pillar of salt- in the rain. It was raining sulfur. And she was a pillar of salt. What happens to a pillar of salt in the rain. It dissolves.

What you say is irrelevant......if you are quoting the bible, then quote it!......where does it say she was a "pillar of salt in the rain"?

Assumptions on a 2000 year old book that has been translated to death and then re-translated to form assumptions are nothing more than flights of fancy.

reply to post by MCCXLIV


I was posting some experiments with sulfuric acid and sugar. This reaction turns the material pure black. That's carbon. The combustion is not really complete. Chemistry isn't my strong suit. I like history, geology, etc. But when you add an oxidizer, like potassium clorate, etc, it then causes materials to combust fully and you get a much more energetic reaction. Wood when it burns will turn black as it turns to charcoal. Then as it burns more fully, it turns grey then white. The final ash would be white. All that would be left of Lot's wife would be a white salty ash. Her burned corpse may have still been in a human shape and would to some extent resemble the corpses found at Pompeii and Herculanium.

Acutally, I'm all up for an argument and a fight. Respectfully of course. Because I'm damned right, And have an answer for everything. And everything I say will stand up to reason and physical experiment. Those bricks will burn baby. I'd love to do the experiment. Remember, they also used straw and animal manure. This stuff burns. You get that rain and stuff starts to burn and change in a chemical reaction. Well, you get all hell breaking loose. It is horrible. Can you imagine?

I can
it was horrible.

So, just to answer the question where it says she was a pillar of salt in the rain. It's in the previous verse. God made it rain brimstone. That's the rain she was in. It hadn't stopped raining. Lot out ran the ran and made it to the caves. He and his daughters were safe. Lot's wife looked back, and in the same translations the say it can mean went back or stayed behind. Lot's wife because she was "back" looked upon the face of God and was turned into a pillar of salt. So. She was back (looked back) and saw the firestorm/hellrain/sulfuric acid rain (face of God) turned (changed) in to a pillar of salt. (something piled high, grandular, white, salty) I'm translating the text and trying to keep it as close as I can to the original. Making it truer. It says she was a pillar of salt. I'm not changing that. I'm expanding on that exact same imagery and metaphor and she would be unstable to say the least. Pillars of salt are unstable and short lived. Even in the desert. Wind blows them away.

reply to post by Argyll


I think the theory is sound. We weren't there. We don't know. Eric's explanation is the first one I've read that makes sense scientifically.

As you yourself wrote, the bible has been rewritten many times over the years. We don't know what has been lost in all those translations and interpretations.

reply to post by MCCXLIV


How can the theory be sound when the source of the theory isn't?

reply to post by Argyll


How do you know the source isn't sound? Can you prove it isn't? Are you in doubt because the story originates from a controversial book, or is that just your personal opinion? Why are you opposed to considering it a plausible explanation? Are you an atheist?

The basic story still exists. Lot's wife looked back and turned into a "pillar of salt". At the time that was probably the most accurate explanation of what was witnessed.

reply to post by MCCXLIV


I agree with you that this was their best explanation. Up until this very weekend, I was thinking that Sodom and Gomorrah melted. I thought it was a figurative burning and the fire was assumed because Abraham saw the aftermath and witnessed the smokey ruins. He said it looked like a furance had been burning. Oh gosh, l may have to quote from the bible again. I'm not a believer. I believe in me. Nothing is absolute and the bible is a source. Imperfect but still a source. This weekend I learned that if you add potassium chlorate to the mix, sulfuric acid will become a catalyst and with the oxidizer, you will get a real fire. Wow. Some my modern understanding has been shaped in just one weekend.
Imagine a person 3366 years ago trying to describe the red skies opening up with a hell stinking rain that burns your skin and starts fires and turns people to chemical ash. I think people on the street would do terrible jobs trying to explain what happened. Heck, people on the street can't name all their politicians and can't explain how their governments work. Imagine a bunch of sheep herders trying to account for the most awesome display nature can produce right in front of them. And a display with leaves the land and all things within its path dead and destroyed.

Call me athiest. Call me Agonsitic. Call me born agin Christian. Call me late for supper. Even with all my skeptisism, if I'd see that, I'd be probably believing in God myself.

Originally posted by MCCXLIV
reply to post by Argyll

 

How do you know the source isn't sound? Can you prove it isn't? Are you in doubt because the story originates from a controversial book, or is that just your personal opinion? Why are you opposed to considering it a plausible explanation? Are you an atheist?

The basic story still exists. Lot's wife looked back and turned into a "pillar of salt". At the time that was probably the most accurate explanation of what was witnessed.

edit on 12/3/2012 by MCCXLIV because: (no reason given)

Was her action of "looking back" the cause of her turning into a "pillar of salt"? We see in an earlier verse in the same chapter, Genesis 19:17:

"As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, “Flee for your lives! Don’t look back, and don’t stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!"

-- So, did Lot's wife STOP and get rained on, or did she merely look back and got rained on?

Does that mean Lot got rained on as well, but since he didn't look back, nothing happened to him?

reply to post by Philippines


I don't think we need to get so technical about it. For whatever reason, Lot made it and his wife did not. Maybe it was a translation issue. Maybe she didn't look back but went back.

reply to post by Philippines


There is a very logical answer for Lot's wife "looking back". She stayed behind. Or, half way through the journey she turns and tries to return to the city and her home. I think she stayed behind and refused to go. It would seem that Lot tried to get others in his family to evacuate the city and they mocked him and the "angels", or envoys. So, Lot's wife may have stayed put and had a fit and refused to move. Why would she want to surrender her secure place on the advice from some angels that God was on his way to destroy the city? She didn't believe it. She didn't heed the warning. Either way. She was warned, don't look back. She did. She was befell the same fate as those in the city and perished. She was turned into a pillar of salt.

12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:

13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it.

14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.

15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.

16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.

17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:

19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:

20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.

21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.

22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.

23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.

24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;

25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the Lord:

28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.


I don't think it matters much. They barely mention Lot's wife except to say she didn't listen. And paid.




And just so we're being technical. It is said that Lot's wife was behind him. So, she was not with him directly. This information is telling us they were not together. Which is why she is turned to a pillar of salt, and why Lot's finds a cave and survives.

Originally posted by MCCXLIV
reply to post by Philippines

 

I don't think we need to get so technical about it. For whatever reason, Lot made it and his wife did not. Maybe it was a translation issue. Maybe she didn't look back but went back.

Of course it's easier to not get so technical about it, but then again, whats the point of this thread if we're not talking about technicalities like volcanoes and acid rain?

reply to post by Philippines


Volcanoes and acid rain make far more sense than the biblical explanation, don't you think? They're in the realm of proof, for those who need it, rather than faith.

reply to post by MCCXLIV


I have thought long and hard about how to answer the question of faith. I've discussed this with a religious person and they were a bit taken back becaue they said it was God and not a volcano. I said that God controls volcanoes doesn't God? God designed everything and had it planned from day 7 at least. God can at any minute use any instrument of nature here on earth to do anything that God wishes. So. I don't think we need worry about whether God did it directly, or indirectly, or just let nature take its couse and let the volcano explode and create an sulfuric cloud that would hit some human settlements. Maybe all God did was blow a little wind in from north. I don't know. But I do know that Santorini did explode in 1600 BCE and the exhalations from the eruption ended up somewhere. Considering the winds. This is why my theory aims at the Holy Land. It's just in the way is all. Nothing personal. I'd be just as content to have my cloud go elswhere, but this is where the prevailing winds often go across the Medditerrreanean. So. And I can't help that the Dead Sea is the lowest point on earth. It's like a low spot where things collect. That's physics.

Topography.

Sorry. I was going to remark that I just found out something amazing. There is a description of the event in Peter. In the Greek, over throw originates our word catastrophe. Gee. I thought it was a french word. Wait, the Greek is turn under. So, catastrophe is turn under in the sense of a disaster such as the fiery destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Don't you like knowing where your knowledge comes from.


oh and for those that focus mostly on the new testament. the keys for the story are ashes. God burns the city and all that is left is ashes. So. God burned Sodom and Gomorrah to the ground until there was nothing left but ash.





Had to add to this. The is a cave which is said to be where Lot and his daughters took shelter. This cave had a temple built believing this was the actual place.

www.johnsanidopoulos.com...

Originally posted by GFB12
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Everything in the Bible actually happened.

I agree, yet the story is often locked by a symbolic retelling that actually points to the root story. We see the outer shell without knowing the inner meaning of the symbols. We cannot know the inner meaning apart from living to the end of the story and then starting over. The Bible is then our guidebook the next time around. Deuteronomy is our instruction manual for Earth II.

Deuteronomy 6 (Let me show you the future)

10 “Then it shall come about when the Lord your God brings you into the land which He swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you, great and splendid cities which you did not build, 11 and houses full of all good things which you did not fill, and hewn cisterns which you did not dig, vineyards and olive trees which you did not plant, and you eat and are satisfied, 12 then watch yourself, that you do not forget the Lord who brought you from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

Egypt is Earth One.

This will be read on the day we arrive.

From the King James, have you cross referenced the Hebrew word for sulfur with a Strong's Exhaustive concordance?

You might find that word they used for Sulfur is incorrect - or it might be accurately literally translated which would make it more correct.

We do have tons of bad translations all over the bible. This has been proven bu Christian scholars over many times. It's a wonder God can speak through it at all.

Start there. Then look at the new findings of those two cities that happened a couple of years ago. ( they were recently discovered) Get a geological survey of that area.

reply to post by ericblair4891


I'm not knocking faith, but a suitable scientific explanation does not hurt the cause. People do tend to forget that God, having made all, proceeds from all. Everything fits neatly in its place and no one need be disturbed that science was called upon to verify the faith.

Originally posted by ericblair4891
reply to post by Philippines

 

There is a very logical answer for Lot's wife "looking back". She stayed behind. Or, half way through the journey she turns and tries to return to the city and her home. I think she stayed behind and refused to go. It would seem that Lot tried to get others in his family to evacuate the city and they mocked him and the "angels", or envoys. So, Lot's wife may have stayed put and had a fit and refused to move. Why would she want to surrender her secure place on the advice from some angels that God was on his way to destroy the city? She didn't believe it. She didn't heed the warning. Either way. She was warned, don't look back. She did. She was befell the same fate as those in the city and perished. She was turned into a pillar of salt.

12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:

13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it.

14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.

15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.

16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.

17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.



I don't think it matters much. They barely mention Lot's wife except to say she didn't listen. And paid.

edit on 3-12-2012 by ericblair4891 because: (no reason given)

And just so we're being technical. It is said that Lot's wife was behind him. So, she was not with him directly. This information is telling us they were not together. Which is why she is turned to a pillar of salt, and why Lot's finds a cave and survives.

edit on 3-12-2012 by ericblair4891 because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the reply =)

1. In verses 16 and 17 it says that Lot, Lot's wife and his 2 daughters were "escorted" out of town by the men, and told to flee to the mountains. This is all very ambiguous.

2. How did Lot know his wife turned into a pillar of salt? Did he turn around to look? Did he daughters see it and then caught up with Lot?

3. If we look at the supposed location of Sodom, where Lot was located (according to the links below), this means that Lot and fam got up before dawn and started to walk to Zoar, which is more than 10 miles away, maybe a 4 hour walk.

Sodom and Gomorrah

Zoar

Then it starts getting real freaky in the next chapter when Lot's 2 daughters decide to get their father, Lot, drunk and proceed to have sex with him so they can have children. This is after Lot offered his virgin daughters in Sodom to the angry mob who wanted to lay with the men who visited Lot.

What a great guy!

I read enough to catch the base of it. You're saying that Sodom was destroyed by sulfur rain. It's a theory I suppose. A possibility at that..

Anyway, I know this is off-topic, but your avatar is probably the most distracting thing I've seen on ATS. Why a bruised toe? I could barely get through half of your first post due to an automatic reaction of terror/disgust/confusion.

reply to post by Argyll

It's a nice theory...... but.... I don't want to get into too much history or debate. I know what I know and it's my way or the highway I don't care. I know what happened. And if I argue too much. I'll have a stroke. Seeing as your arrogance appears to prevent debate on your theory.......and as I'm someone who does not believe the vast majority of what is written in the bible, I'll abide by your wishes and refrain from debating the issue. signature:

It is called emotion. The great and sworn enemy of logic. Emotion has been an enemy of mine my whole life.

Not a bad hypothesis there, Its a fascinating idea that could even have left
evidence behind, i don't know why people assume you will get yelled at for
suggesting things in the bible actually happened, this is a perfectly natural
way it could have happened without the need for a god to intervene.

Just as we now know the natural way seas turn red and that tsunamis
happen from time to time, to say everything in the bible is a lie would be
wrong, im sure the stories of many natural disasters are recorded in there,
only thing is god isn't required to cause them.

I always thought that most likely if the description in the bible is true those
cities were destroyed by a volcano or maybe even a meteor air bursting
near them. many religious texts have real history in them veiled in the
"supernatural". nothing wrong with looking for the real natural cause.