The Biggest Lie in Medicine: The Cholesterol Conspiracy

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by FissionSurplus

This thread is extremely stupid and based on misconceptions about science.

reply to post by Ghost375

 

You insult the thread, but provide ZERO evidence to back that point of view, which has been fairly typical of the few naysayers who have appeared on here to pass out insults but nothing else.

I think your response is stupid, and typical of people who chant the mantra of "science" but can only parrot what the television tells them.

I've shown plenty of evidence...where have you been?

And I don't get my information from the TV.

I'm afraid you're on to plums if you are trying to highlight the gross deficiencies in the main argument. The stance taken has absolutely nothing to do with evidence (you may have noticed how it gets dismissed or completely forgotten after a page of replies !!!!) it has everything to do with an unfounded belief that everything is a lie , scientists are scheming liars, doctors want to eradicate us by surreptitious methods!

Look on the bright side Darwinism is at work here.........

They should encapsulate the statins in flouride just really get them going

Originally posted by Ghost375
You people keep mentioning these drugs have severe side effects....but you fail to mention the rate of these side effects....
the most serious one for statins is ALS.....it was found to have a rate of 9 in 60,000 people.
The memory loss that someone mentioned is found in rare cases. That means less than 1%.

Learn some science.

edit on 4-12-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

Doctors are trying to help you!! and the Pharmaceutical industry IS trying to make money, just like everyone else in this country.....but they have high standards.

edit on 4-12-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-12-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

So I suppose all the people that posted on this thread and related their side-effects is not scientific enough for you. PLEASE provide the links for the statistics that you are citing.

"Learn some science"...? WTF does that mean, Ghost? As far as I'm concerned, my science is as solid as yours, only mine is backed also by the real world and the people who are inhabiting it.

If you think that all doctors are only concerned with helping their patients, and actually take the time to listen to them, I want to know what color the sky is in your world. I'm not saying they're all money-grubbing, greedy jerks, but their schedules are so packed, they may see a patient for less than 5 minutes, and do very little listening. They are walking prescription pads.

If you think the pharmaceutical companies have "high standards", I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. They USED to have high standards, but sometimes, the pursuit of insane amounts of profit will take precedence over the health of the population. Why do you think they advertise drugs to the general population? Why do you think that pharmaceutical reps wine and dine doctors and give them nice fat "incentives" to prescribe their drugs? Haven't you noticed that all the drugs which are pushed through, marketed heavily, and passed out like candy end up being pulled from the market, and class actions lawsuits filed, a few years later? Why is that? It is possible that, although they have insufficient data to release this drug into the general population, they push for it anyway (thanks to their buddies in the FDA, who were previously employees of these same drug companies), because the money they make will far surpass whatever they will have to pay later in court?

Western medicine has been hijacked by monetary interests, and YES, there is a conflict when you place a person's health against the corporate bottom line.

To top all this off, you haven't debunked my original OP. You are side-tracking on statins and how the government and big pharma / big med is our friend. I have to wonder why.

reply to post by FissionSurplus


seems to me the system wants us to give all our money to capitalism before we die, forcing our children to keep working for tptb. The government wants out of this, they can't afford to be in this deceptful practice even though they are allowing it. Right now the medical industry, including pharmaceuticals, is the biggest employment industry in the USA when you consider all the side jobs it creates including the insurance jobs.. They got rid of the real jobs, making appliances and tools. Even many of the parts for cars are made elsewhere. Pretty soon they will export most of the food industry and turn all the fields to corn for gasahol. I don't understand how they think anyone will have the money to pay for all this stuff if noone is working. Make us think that we are sick from our own actions is the plan. If they tell us we have high cholesterol we automatically feel we have messed up and are willing to give them money for it. As I quoted before, Too high cholesterol is just a symptom, we are not inferior because of this, we just need to try to use more moderation in our life and get a little exercise, not intensive, just do more in our lives.

A niacin deficiency can make cholesterol levels higher. Nuts have nicotinic acid and help keep the body working properly. Too much niacin and you can get an AFIB like event. Don't overeat those hot peppers. An imbalance can throw everything out of whack. Eating too much of a certain kind of food is not good. Certain foods should be eaten in the fall, certain foods in the spring. The catholic tradition of Lent and friday fish has merit as a healthful practice. Lots of traditional diets are based on health reasons. Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners to build up a little extra fat for winter, we cannot change these things in a few generations, we are messing up with the western diet. From studying traditional diets of the major cultures, I have seen the same things done over and over, these things are necessary to health but each culture uses a little different system. Then comes along modern chefs, changing and combining things so our bodies have to detox more. Line the cans with plastic so we get tin and zinc deficient. Lots of changes that are hidden from our sight. El-dente spaghetti, what a joke. The anhydrates will make us just a little sick, they can cause inflammation if over consumed. Too many changes too fast.

Sorry about the wandering in this post, I was trying to get my son-in-laws snowblower running right, got a little scattered from the exhaust. I know, what is my excuse for all the other posts

well it comes down to this......everything in moderation! peolple worry too much nowadays about what to eat! just eat a varied diet and not too much and you'll be as healthy as you can be, well throw a bit of exercise into the mix aswell

reply to post by FissionSurplus


It is the exact thing with sugar. According to biology, the body needs 90% of sugar, and the main users of this sugar is the brain cells, and the body cells. Our brain works on 90% sugar, and "science" is claiming it dangerous.
But great find, mate! I never knew that we needed so much cholesterol, nor did i knew its use on our body.
Yes, the government is trying to softly kill us.

Originally posted by starheart
reply to post by FissionSurplus

 

It is the exact thing with sugar. According to biology, the body needs 90% of sugar, and the main users of this sugar is the brain cells, and the body cells. Our brain works on 90% sugar, and "science" is claiming it dangerous.
But great find, mate! I never knew that we needed so much cholesterol, nor did i knew its use on our body.
Yes, the government is trying to softly kill us.

OTOH, too much dietary sugar increases the risk of insulin resistence and diabetes. Everything that is beneficial can be harmful in large quantities,

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by Ghost375

 

would you link to solid scientific proof cholestorol is a proven cause of heart disease please?
thanks in advance

edit on 4-12-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

There's tons of evidence.
It's probably not the only factor, but it is a factor.

Here's just one study.

Again, it doesn't say in the study you cited that it causes heart disease. It claims "greater risk", without looking at all the other factors. Without looking at the patient as a whole person, including actitvity level, general health, etc., this is what I call JUNK SCIENCE. Without the whole picture, it is pointless.

It's like saying that a person with a broken leg has pain, and so those with increased pain have increased injury, so they need to address the level of pain. Doesn't cure the broken leg, does it?

Plus, your link is only an abstract of what was, basically, a seminar. Gotta wonder who provided the funding for it.

reply to post by FissionSurplus


Already knew this, but thanks.

If you pair LDL with HDL, not only will it help your body recover a lot faster, it'll also enhance it in ways you want.

May seem far fetched, but so far it worked for me.

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by BuffDaddy
I was given 8 different pills to take by my heart doctor, most were to lower my cholesterol. The thing is, I do not have high cholesterol. I went to see the doc because my heart was hurting one day while I was at the gym (I was sprinting like a mad man on the treadmill, doing some high-intensity interval training). I asked him why they were treating me for something I did not have and he said, "We prescribe the same regiment to all our patients for heart troubles." My diagnosis was, they did not know what was wrong with my heart. I was pretty blown away that they would prescibe me all those drugs when they did not know what was wrong. I asked him how many side effects would result from taking all those meds and he gave me a contemptuous look as though I was insulting his intelligence. I never took one pill and I never went back.

dude, it isn't a perfect science. He probably was just trying to help you.
They check for drug interactions. He probably gave you a look that said you were questioning his integrity and care for your well being, not intelligence.

Obviously something was wrong with your heart to the best of his abilities. Sue him for trying to help!

Oh, NOW I know what you mean by "science". Some doc guessing without doing the necessary work-ups that are usually required when one comes in with chest pains and heart palpitations.

If that's the best of his abilities, Buff got seriously ripped off. Dragging in a ton of drugs without so much as a blood test is bad doctoring. That's not helping, that is being guilty of malpractice. And he probably has been sued, a lot, so he cuts back on actually spending time with the patient, in order to get as many patients in as possible, for maximum profits.

It is obvious that you hold doctors in high regard, but don't be condescending for those of us who have paid a great deal of money for quack medicine that did more harm than good.

I've got high cholesterol and it's not like that at all.
they don't say "all bad cholesterol is bad", but "at high enough levels it can cause all sorts of problems". get a blood test, you should see that each substance they check have a "low level" "normal level" and "high level"

Did anyone point out that saturated fats are needed for the body to produce hormones?

I eat no more than two slices of whole-wheat bread a day,get most of my calories from fish,brown rice and cheese.

34 inch waist(I'm 41,so don't worry )210 pounds-eat about 3300 calories a day.

Been eating like this for three years.

My resting heart rate is 42 bpm.

I haven't had a cold or 'flu for three years either.

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by FissionSurplus

This thread is extremely stupid and based on misconceptions about science.

reply to post by Ghost375

 

You insult the thread, but provide ZERO evidence to back that point of view, which has been fairly typical of the few naysayers who have appeared on here to pass out insults but nothing else.

I think your response is stupid, and typical of people who chant the mantra of "science" but can only parrot what the television tells them.

I've shown plenty of evidence...where have you been?

And I don't get my information from the TV.

Two links, both debatable. Not exactly plenty. I've been right here. And, yeah, you do sound like somebody who parrots what they hear on TV. "Big pharma has high standards"...."Doctors care and only want to help"....yet, there are too many on this thread who say differently. Quality medicine has been sacrificed on the alter of profits, in many cases. You debate that this isn't so, but you only offer platitudes and niceties.

reply to post by NavyDoc


You're right, I can't improve on the truth.

All the chemistry that they put in foods to make us eat more is causing a lot of problems.

I have been researching these additives but some don't have to be listed because they are natural and considered GRAS. Spices can mean a lot of things. A person can get overloaded with annatto.

Science isn't some know-all perfect doctrine

reply to post by Ghost375


Yet you hold up science as the be-all and end-all, and tell me to learn it. If you are correct in your assertion (and in this singular case I believe you are), then science is to be taken with a grain of salt, knowing that it is not perfect, it can be wrong, and often, as time goes by, it is proven to be.

So you say my thread is nothing but "bad science"....and then you say the above thing. LOL!

Please illuminate us as to what constitutes "good science".

Originally posted by FissionSurplus

Originally posted by Ghost375
You people keep mentioning these drugs have severe side effects....but you fail to mention the rate of these side effects....
the most serious one for statins is ALS.....it was found to have a rate of 9 in 60,000 people.
The memory loss that someone mentioned is found in rare cases. That means less than 1%.

Learn some science.

edit on 4-12-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

Doctors are trying to help you!! and the Pharmaceutical industry IS trying to make money, just like everyone else in this country.....but they have high standards.

edit on 4-12-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-12-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

So I suppose all the people that posted on this thread and related their side-effects is not scientific enough for you. PLEASE provide the links for the statistics that you are citing.
I got the numbers from a journal that you have to have a subscription to access. A link will do you no good. But you're so paranoid you'll probably think I'm lying. I really don't care if you think I'm lying. I hope others don't, just so they know eating tons of cholesterol is dangerous.

"Learn some science"...? WTF does that mean, Ghost? As far as I'm concerned, my science is as solid as yours, only mine is backed also by the real world and the people who are inhabiting it.
Your science is awful. Quit fooling yourself. My science has numbers to back it up. Your "science" is a conspiracy theory that you made up with no evidence to support it, and the few facts you used are misinterpreted

If you think that all doctors are only concerned with helping their patients, and actually take the time to listen to them, I want to know what color the sky is in your world. I'm not saying they're all money-grubbing, greedy jerks, but their schedules are so packed, they may see a patient for less than 5 minutes, and do very little listening. They are walking prescription pads.
Most doctors are trying to help their patients. end of story.


To top all this off, you haven't debunked my original OP. You are side-tracking on statins and how the government and big pharma / big med is our friend.
I ONLY said doctors are your friend. I said nothing about Big pharma being friends with anyone, you read into that. I specifically said they are trying to make money. I ONLY used the government as an example because you said they don't say sugar is bad for you....when they DO!
I have to wonder why.

You say that I don't debunk what you said....but you came up with some insane theory about how cholesterol is a wonder drug for the brain and health providers are lying and recommending people eat less cholesterol in a grand scheme to make people stupid!

How the F am I supposed to debunk that crazy theory?
There's no evidence for it whatsoever. You know what, I do have some evidence that debunks your theory....
There's tons of people who eat junk food all day long and are fat. They don't take statins, and guess what, they're still dumb!

You can't come up with a bat-# crazy theory, not provide any evidence for it, then say you're right because people can't debunk it. There are some theories that are so crazy they can't directly be debunked.

reply to post by FissionSurplus


AT one point, after my mother stent the doctor had her on 9 different medications, because I am here in the US and not in PR where the rest of the family resides, I was off on my sister that works for the medical community on how she allowed our mother to be on so many medications.

She said that she had no clue that she was, well to make matters worst my mother could no even eat, walk or even get off the bed with so many side effects and she was only in her late 50s at the time, so thankfully my sister was able to have all the medications reviewed and only those that were necessary to stay.

Well the side effects of the medications didn't stay there, my mother pancreas shut down, making her a type 1 diabetes, as you know this type is what is call childhood related, but for some reason some adults are starting to suffer from this, she now needs insulin shots to survive, the doctors claim is due to a viral infection.

After almost 7 years of this problems we are happy to say that she is doing fine, with less medications and her hart has improved.

BTW is not diabetes at all within our family history

reply to post by FissionSurplus


I eat Brown Bread now (for the last 5 years at least) . Are you tryin to tell me tha I should eat less Brown Bread??

As far as I know its supposed to be good for us.... Barley, Oats, Grain, Wheat, Soya.

I also eat cheese... been having this since I was a baby and while growing up, I used to eat 4 wheatabix every morning for about 10 years!!

Mind you... I went for a test earlier this year as was recommended by my Doctor and I was told i'm in a very healthy state, everything is fine!!

Anyway, I eat almost anything...

What about 'Brown Sugar'? I have that in my coffee... 2 flat teaspoons! Used to have white sugar and white bread but switched around 5 years ago and I drink De-Caff! I find its much easier to let loose in the toilet!!

Originally posted by FissionSurplus

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by Ghost375

 

would you link to solid scientific proof cholestorol is a proven cause of heart disease please?
thanks in advance

edit on 4-12-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

There's tons of evidence.
It's probably not the only factor, but it is a factor.

Here's just one study.

Again, it doesn't say in the study you cited that it causes heart disease. It claims "greater risk", without looking at all the other factors. Without looking at the patient as a whole person, including actitvity level, general health, etc., this is what I call JUNK SCIENCE. Without the whole picture, it is pointless.

It's like saying that a person with a broken leg has pain, and so those with increased pain have increased injury, so they need to address the level of pain. Doesn't cure the broken leg, does it?

Plus, your link is only an abstract of what was, basically, a seminar. Gotta wonder who provided the funding for it.

Just to step in and make a point of order: a lot in science is not about "cause" or "not cause." We can't be trapped in binary thinking. Most of medicine (and life for that matter) has more to do with identifiying risks, stratifying them, and then reduced them while taking into consideration the risk/benefit ratio. For an 80 year old, the benefit to risk ratio of taking a statin is not there, for example, but in a 30 year old with familial hypercholesteralemia, the benefit to risk ratio is there. The debate really lies in those people where the risk stratification is much less cut and dry.

reply to post by yorkshirelad


Feel free to point out the "gross deficiencies" in the main argument. The only one who has come even close to doing this with any degree of validity is NavyDoc.

So much easier to insult, isn't it?

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

You're right, I can't improve on the truth.

All the chemistry that they put in foods to make us eat more is causing a lot of problems.

I have been researching these additives but some don't have to be listed because they are natural and considered GRAS. Spices can mean a lot of things. A person can get overloaded with annatto.

edit on 4-12-2012 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)

Even a completely natural plant can be unhealthy for you, just ask Socrates about hemlock.