Israel authorizes construction of 3,000 new settlements

reply to post by dsmg012

and btw this "Zionist regime" is still the only true democracy.

What defines a democracy?

it's still better than any regime you want to be established there.

No, it is not better. It is worse if it means to abondon and to violate the same fundamental values it is pretending to defend, all in the name of democracy. What's left is the Rule of Force.

...a fact which led Aharon Zisling, the minister of agriculture, to tell the Israeli cabinet on 17 November 1948: "I couldn't sleep all night. I felt that things that were going on were hurting my soul, the soul of my family and all of us here (...) Now Jews too have behaved like Nazis and my entire being has been shaken.

source

The problem with the anti-israel crowd is just plan outright belligerance to believe and justify their own ignorances with continual refusal to listen to the other side or brush them all off as rubbish or lies, while every droplet of BS from their own side is considered fragrant, no matter how bad it smells in reality. Anti-Israel BS proganda works I suppose.

My plea is for BOTH sides to listen to each other's perspectives with an open mind, then share, talk and discuss so as to find a solution and common ground to live in peace.

I know it can be painful, to watch what you had believed for long being torned down before you. I am a follower of our Messiah, but for the sake of truth, I forced myself to listen to atheists view and their perspectives. Initial times, I could not take their trash for more than 5 minutes without blood draining from my veins.

But listen to them I must, so that I can understand where they are comming from. Over time, it became easier. I held an open mind, ready to be changed, but unfortunately, they presented no logical or reasonable or even scientific basis for their beliefs. I do not wish to change their views instead, for religion is personal and must come from one's free will.

Similarly, I can understand the anti-israel crowd's mentality, in their outright rejections of any evidences, truths or logic on the tragic history of Palestine. It is done more out of fear of being caught wrong and watch what you believed in come crashing down.

The issue of Palestine is not like religion, where it is more difficult to prove as we are dealing with the metaphysical. The Palestine issue is based upon historical evidences and facts, for less complex, and is something the anti-Israel crowd must do if they want to be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem by refusal to accept facts.

For centuries, arabs had lived side by side in peace. Prophet Muhammad's allies were jews and had never made any directive to 'Kill all jews'. He only ordered killings upon those whom had cause harm and hurt to innocents, including equally upon muslims who commit crimes.

He chosed logic and reasoning MORE often than violence. Take the case of the conquest of Mecca for example. Instead of war, he sought peace, and was given unfair terms by the bloodthirsty Meccans. He accepted it, despite initial anger by his followers, he was proven right as Meccans and arabs were impressed by his non-violent and humble attitude, join his faith, and within a year, he simply walked into Mecca and took over with his mass followers, without a drop of blood shed.

It was only after the fall of the Ottoman empire that blatant outright naked hatred to jews came to the fore with mass torture, deprivations and slaughtering under the direction of one man.

His name - Amin al-Husseini, the Islamic grand Musfti of Jerusalem. I refuse him the title of Haj for he had profaned that right. He is no muslim but an apostate with blood and blasphemy to the name and teachings of the prophet Muhammad. If ever an anti-christ exists, he is one of them, co-conspirator of Hitler and the cause for the sufferings of both palestinians and jews for decades.

Ok so I had to jump back into this again.

1. Back in biblical times when the Jewish people first came about they were in Egypt hence that was their ancestral land if you really want to get technical. I believe they were lead by an "angel" if you are a believer in the bible to a new home after being ousted by the Egyptians of the day. That land was Israel.

2. After WW2 when they were settling everything after Hitlers fall. The US gave Israel back to the Jewish people and if I am not mistaken the British Commonwealth gave land every close by Jordan I believe.

3. Originally Israel was a small mass of land after the 6 day war they took huge chunks of Egypt, Syria,and Jordan. The Chunks taken from Jordan became the Palestinian state if I am not mistaken.

4. 45 yrs later Israel still occupies most of the land taken during the war. While it is common for land captured during war time to be kept. It is also common for said land to be returned as part of treaties etc. In the case of Israel they decided well we needed more land anyway so lets expand our colonies.

5. Ever since the 6 day war Israel has grown more and more bold (not dissimilar to the US after WW1 and 2) Israel went from being the victim to the aggressor.

The problem with Israel is not what happened in the past its what they do now. Instead of trying to make peace with anyone they are constantly threatening every one around them. The bully theory as I call it. They assume that by being bullies they are protecting themselves. When in fact they are just pissing off their Arab neighbors. In my humble opinion it is not that all the Arab's want to kill Israel it is more that they feel Israel wants to kill all of them.

There is absolutely no difference in what Israel is doing vs what was happening in Bosnia. The only difference is that the UN stepped in when it came to Bosnia. No one steps in when it comes to Israel. Even though Israel is committing the same Ethnic Cleansing in the form of carpet bombing the Gaza strip after Hamas lobs a few missiles over the border. Even though it is clear that Hamas is a terrorist organization not part of the Palestinian Government. The Hamas Government is the farce. The Palestinian people do not want them they have even ousted their leaders. Kind of like the Taliban government in Afghanistan just because they were run by the Taliban does not mean all Afghans are terrorists.

The problem in this world is that we Americans tend to see everything in black and white. So because our government told us that we were attacked by Muslim extremists we have now dubbed all Muslims as Terrorist regardless of their locale. Our media tells us that Palestine has attacked Israel again we assume that all Palestinians are out to kill Israel (even though they clearly state Hamas 9 times out of 10) Just because Israel claims that Iran has nuclear ambitions we assume that Iran is out to kill everyone. Just because a loose translation of the Iranian president has been spread around the internet (the internet never lies) does not mean that Iran wants to destroy Israel.

The questions I ask are simple.

1. Who is the one that is always threatening to kill everyone?
2. Have you ever heard the beloved Netanyahu call for peace?
3. Did you know that even when Israel attacked an American ship and killed several US servicemen nothing was even said to Israel?
4. Did you know that Jerusalem is a major part of the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim faith? (Funny how we fight over a religion that is about identical)
5. When people say that the Muslim faith calls for the eradication of all non Muslims were you aware that in 1100 AD to 1600 AD Christians conducted a war against anyone that was not Christian? ( I know a bit off topic)


Ok done with my rant

Just thought of one last question that must be asked.

Why is it that anyone that disagrees with or questions the Israeli government is dubbed a Anti-Semitic?

1. PLO had been given back West Bank and Gaza for SELF RULE. Ruling over the Palestinian people is a power and comes with responsibilities.

So why are the missiles, even the deadly fajar 5 series being launched into innocent Israeli population centres, uncontrolled by the PLO authorities? Had they failed to clean up their own land and need Israel's decision to eradicate the naughty little boys Hamas from 'lobbing a few grenades to kill jews'?

And why are the 'naughty little boys' still swaggering in their walk freely, and worse, even praised by PLO and arab neighbours for their actions against innocent humans - including both jews and palestinians use as human shields?

Do muslims take joy in baiting killing innocent humans, espacially jews?

I seriously doubt so.

Thus the need to hold Hamas in check, end their agression, and Israel too will end its agression. No one wants war, least of all true muslims. And it can only begin by getting the 2 sides to negotiate for a lasting peace now, not more tit for tat, and let the conflict end once and for all. Both sides had paid the price, for in wars, often it is the innocents that pay the bill in blood.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

Thus the need to hold Hamas in check, end their agression, and Israel too will end its agression. No one wants war, least of all true muslims. And it can only begin by getting the 2 sides to negotiate for a lasting peace now, not more tit for tat, and let the conflict end once and for all. Both sides had paid the price, for in wars, often it is the innocents that pay the bill in blood.

You say the above, but this entire thread was started due to that exact sentiment. Israel taking more tit for tat as you say. They authorized construction of new settlements in the Gaza strip one day after Palestine is officially recognized by the UN. How is that not a complete contradiction to the above quote?

reply to post by DarknStormy


hmm what do you mean? like a case of war between Arab nations? the whole area that is called Palestine was under British mandate when Jewish people started immigrating to the now Israel area. the question is what is "provoking". is wanting to live in an area that belong to Britain considered provoking? there were Arab immigrants to the British mandate as well, so does it mean that they were provoking the Jewish people? also the largest increases of Palestinian Arab population occurred close to Jewish population centers in Palestine, so does creating better conditions of living with the help of Britain can be considered "provoking"? the provoking started in the mind of religious antisemitic Muslims that provoked Arabs against the Jews, and started a circle of hatred. when you hear Palestinians shouting to the death of Israel( and America) you can hear the famous "alla acqubar", they see their religion as the judge that rules for Israel's death. those are not cries to end a war, those are cries to start a war, those are not cries of sadness, those are cries of hate, not revenge, hate. why are the Arabs nations divided by many factors, but when it comes to Israel they are united? because they are moral? you can go to Syria and see the overflow of morality. it's because their hate, the fire that was sparked by Islam and breathes through Islamic terror organizations.

secondly, Democracy is an angel, an angel that is torn of his wings when handed to the wrong people. you do not seem to understand, the government is the people, well in this case those who represent their views. when handed to the wrong people, those people seem to remember very well the majority rule part, but seems to forget about human rights, religious freedom and the obligation to protect the minority. what I just described btw is Islamic "democracy".
democracy is not a way to end wars, it's a way to give better life to groups that choose to acknowledge each other as equals. if the government is wrong and the people don't acknowledge it, then it is the peoples fault.
the killing of the innocent is because those who are guilty use the innocents as shields, those are the ways of the non democratic organizations.

and btw you seem to forget that "back then" a LOT more innocent people were killed. you want the world to face the Islamic terror problem? well get ready to WWIII.
oh and when Israel confronts Hamas "head on" , they are wrong right?

Originally posted by Phantom28804

You say the above, but this entire thread was started due to that exact sentiment. Israel taking more tit for tat as you say. They authorized construction of new settlements in the Gaza strip one day after Palestine is officially recognized by the UN. How is that not a complete contradiction to the above quote?

Let's all grow up. This is getting tiresome.

Why is Israel behaving this manner with its settlement building or any other supposedly NON-LETHAL actions such as temporary withholding funds and taxes?

Some again moronically call them 'Dispropotionate Response' to PLO belligerance at UN to get recognition as UN Observer Status WITHOUT resolving the truly critical matters - peace between 2 states. That status is almost only symbolic, but Israel's response is real and has an impact.

Fact is, Will those few miles of land make Israel any bigger? Will those taxes withheld make Israel any richer? Or does the palestinians prefers another 'cast iron' action instead?

The non-lethal actions are nothing more than to prod the PLO - the worldwide recognized authority of the palestinian people, to get its act together, sit down for negotiations for a final lasting peace treaty between the 2 peoples. Once that is done, rest assured, Palestine will not only be recognised in full by all nations as observer status in UN, it will gets it long cherished Independence as a nation.

Israel has shown itself ready to remove settlements and angry minority Israeli voters if it can obtain peace in exchange for the majority, as proven in Gaza and West Bank.

Those settlements are but only ploys to get the PLO come to its senses, but if not, it will expand and grow into sticking points later if the PLO prefers to play up to the audience, play the sympathy card and consign the destiny of palestinians to further hatred, vengences and sufferings.

The PLO owes the 138 nations that voted for its recognition in UN, an honor debt, in the sunnah (tradition) of arab culture. Those 138 nations did NOT vote for PLO to continue its genocide upon jews, but to seek for peace.

May the PLO and all palestinians including Hamas remember and honor its debt.

Israel owes its debt to US and the other nine nations that supported it, as well the nations that abstained, for they abstained in the belief that negotiated peace is more critical than recognition right now so that no more innocents die. And those nations will be responsible to 'assist' Israel see the light, end any further agression or stupid moves, to accept lasting peace BUT as long as it is sincerely and honestly offered by the 'death to jews' palestinians.

T -19......

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


The point is that Israel has imposed itself on Palestine for years and years. You say the genocide of the jews. I would love to see the statistics on how many Israeli citizens have been killed in attacks by Hamas vs how many Palestinians have been killed in attacks by Israel?

What about the armed taking of a international ship in international waters bring aide to the Palestinians that was taken by the Israeli Army, as they said there will be no aide to the Palestinians. What about the beatings and the attacks on Palestinian protestors by the IDF? Did they have weapons? No they throw some rocks and the IDF responds with automatic weapons.

The Israelis have a very old memory some of which exceeds most of their lifetimes. It's been almost 80yrs ago and the Israelis still use that as a sympathy card. I mean I am sorry for what happened to them at the hands of the Nazi's but that does not mean the whole world is out to wipe them off the face of the earth, and Palestine is far from committing Genocide as you put it.

I found what I was looking for. Now tell me who is the real victimized side based on these numbers?





Source

Even if you take out the 1593 people killed by other Palestinians the numbers are still far higher on the Palestinian side vs the Jewish side.

Talking about numbers now to find comfort, are we?

How more LUDICRIOUS can one get?

EVEN one life lost is critical. Each life is precious and means something special to another.

The crux of the matter is NOT how many lives had been lost on which side, BUT rather, HOW MANY MORE LIVES WILL BE LOST IF THIS TRAGEDY CONTINUES ON.

End the delusions, crocodile tears and excuses I plead, support and seek for negotiated peace now.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


I am 100% for peace between Israel and Palestine. I am merely pointing out that Israel is 9 times out of 10 the aggressor and it is always excused by the majority. It doesn't just take an action to spark a fight. If a kid at school sits in the corner calling you names, poking you, hitting you, stealing your lunch money. Eventually you are going to strike back.

With all due respect if you are to blind to see that then you are the one that needs to look again.

I am not seeking comfort. I am firm in my belief on the issue. If anything I would say you are the one seeking reassurance in what you believe.

reply to post by Phantom28804


if you punch a 2 meter tall guy on steroids and get beaten up, you can't say this guy is more violent than you, he is simply stronger. if you had the the needed strength to fight back this would look a lot different.
btw notice the civilian percent.
continuing with this metaphor, it's kinda like if you had the same strength, you would also be more likely to hold a knife.

Originally posted by dsmg012
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

because they are moral? you can go to Syria and see the overflow of morality. it's because their hate, the fire that was sparked by Islam and breathes through Islamic terror organizations.

Yeah, and democracy is sponsoring those terrorists. Killing more innocent people in the name of Dictator/Oppresor and others. I didn't answer to the rest of you first paragraph because trying to read it is giving me a headache.

Originally posted by dsmg012
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

secondly, Democracy is an angel, an angel that is torn of his wings when handed to the wrong people. you do not seem to understand, the government is the people, well in this case those who represent their views.

No the government are not the people. The government are far from it. Maybe somewhere back in the past they were but today, the government may aswell be a dictatorship. They do not care about my or your views. They care about their pathetic agenda and would kill even us if we questioned their legitimacy..

When handed to the wrong people, those people seem to remember very well the majority rule part, but seems to forget about human rights, religious freedom and the obligation to protect the minority. what I just described btw is Islamic "democracy".

Rubbish Islam all you want, it does't mean your system is any better. Democracy is based off keeping the rich in power whilst the poor suffer and continue to suffer. Apart from that, democracy really isn't that special. Democracy could end tommorow and I wouldn't care.

Democracy is not a way to end wars, it's a way to give better life to groups that choose to acknowledge each other as equals. if the government is wrong and the people don't acknowledge it, then it is the peoples fault.
the killing of the innocent is because those who are guilty use the innocents as shields, those are the ways of the non democratic organizations.

BS.. Its never the peoples fault. The people do not breach contitutions, implement oppressive or ridiculous laws. The people are being screwed over and the sad thing is, they embrace it.

and btw you seem to forget that "back then" a LOT more innocent people were killed. you want the world to face the Islamic terror problem? well get ready to WWIII.
oh and when Israel confronts Hamas "head on" , they are wrong right?

Its funny,.have you ever thought that maybe the Muslims look at us as Terrorists? You know, because we continuously invade their lands time and time again? Kill their children over and over again? Yet when they pull off a couple of attacks, they are the worst people on the planet.. We probably deserve everything we get.

Originally posted by seenavv
well well well... fantastic... /claps
the warmongering crocodile wipes it's tears away and shows its true colors. Observable only by those with their head ABOVE the sand
To all the Zionists out there: take your "Israel has the right to defend itself" argument and SHOVE IT. Articles like the one above should convince EVERYONE with a sense of objectivity that, since their inception, the Israeli's have ultimately been the aggressors in the region. Yesterday's vote is only proof that the world has had enough of Israel; it's actions, and it's rhetoric

P.S. For Zionists weary of RT's credibility, here is a Zionist source that'll make sense just for you!
in.reuters.com...


Also here's another article about Israel's recent "defense" tactics, dated November 6th, 2012:
Israel advances plans for 1,213 new West Bank settlement homes


rt.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 30-11-2012 by seenavv because: (no reason given)

Mod Note -- Please Review Post Before Replying

edit on 11/30/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

Well, personally I am getting tired of the rhetoric that both sides try to play - YOURS INCLUDED.

Yes, Israel in its decision to move ahead with construction plans does nothing but further instigate more violence, but Palestine is not innocent in all of this.

Hamas broadcasts "death to Israel" music video the day after agreeing to ceasefire




Hamas will not accept that Israel has a right to exist and Abbas 'Victory Speech': Jerusalem 'Eternal Capital of Palestine' isn't a step in the right direction either.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
Talking about numbers now to find comfort, are we?

How more LUDICRIOUS can one get?

EVEN one life lost is critical. Each life is precious and means something special to another.

The crux of the matter is NOT how many lives had been lost on which side, BUT rather, HOW MANY MORE LIVES WILL BE LOST IF THIS TRAGEDY CONTINUES ON.

End the delusions, crocodile tears and excuses I plead, support and seek for negotiated peace now.

edit on 2-12-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)

Oh hush. When the rats you support agree to pull back to 1967 borders and agree to landswaps....THEN we will negotiate.

reply to post by Phantom28804


People like you are the problem why there is no peace between Israel and Palestinians, simply because your kind allow emotions to cloud your rationality.

Your kind simply REFUSE to confront reality, prefering the comfort of delusions, crocodile tears, wallowing in self pity, belligerances and expect others to follow such ways. Misery loves company I suppose.

That is all about to change. If the terrorist group hamas and petrified Abbas who thinks supporting hamas bullies is the way to win, best they think again. The 138 nations that voted for peaceful palestinians are expecting payback soon, or equally they will be ready to dump Palestine if they refuse to end the 'death to jews' calls. No respectable nations will condone genocide or terrorism.

So cut the BS about you loving peace. You don't, as long as you continue to look the other way as many innocents on BOTH sides continue to die in the past and will continue to die in the future as Hamas and the terrorist bootlicking Abbas takes joy in your kind's support for the genocide of jews by hammering of Israel for every little fault.

How the border of a Palestine nation will look like in the end depends SOLEY upon peaceful sincere negotiations, and not from the likes of you and me, for we have no acess to land records sold or abandoned, which only the 2 parties can sit down and work it out carefully so that no side loses.

Support negotiations, not preconditions, espacially preconditions of death to jews as a condition which is clearly no desire for any negotiations at all. If one side refuses to talk, it only means war. Is hamas prepared to kill all jews alone, or are they hoping that the 138 nations that voted it will join in their slaughter of jews?

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by Phantom28804

 

People like you are the problem why there is no peace between Israel and Palestinians, simply because your kind allow emotions to cloud your rationality.

Your kind simply REFUSE to confront reality, prefering the comfort of delusions, crocodile tears, wallowing in self pity, belligerances and expect others to follow such ways. Misery loves company I suppose.

That is all about to change. If the terrorist group hamas and petrified Abbas who thinks supporting hamas bullies is the way to win, best they think again. The 138 nations that voted for peaceful palestinians are expecting payback soon, or equally they will be ready to dump Palestine if they refuse to end the 'death to jews' calls. No respectable nations will condone genocide or terrorism.

So cut the BS about you loving peace. You don't, as long as you continue to look the other way as many innocents on BOTH sides continue to die in the past and will continue to die in the future as Hamas and the terrorist bootlicking Abbas takes joy in your kind's support for the genocide of jews by hammering of Israel for every little fault.

How the border of a Palestine nation will look like in the end depends SOLEY upon peaceful sincere negotiations, and not from the likes of you and me, for we have no acess to land records sold or abandoned, which only the 2 parties can sit down and work it out carefully so that no side loses.

Support negotiations, not preconditions, espacially preconditions of death to jews as a condition which is clearly no desire for any negotiations at all. If one side refuses to talk, it only means war. Is hamas prepared to kill all jews alone, or are they hoping that the 138 nations that voted it will join in their slaughter of jews?

Sorry, but you have no credilble argument.

The IDF is formed from groups that were both international terrorists, and collaborators with the Third Reich.

You defending them is just a step below deplorable.

3000 is a very very VERY good start.

30,000 is more my taste though.

BRAVO Israel, Bravo my strong and righteous friends.

It makes me want to donate more $ to the Israeli cause.