The folly of atheism

reply to post by windword


Upon what greater authority do you base your decision ? Is it because you dislike the bondage of the Law or do you think that it is wrong . Have the naysayers offered you a more factual answer of how we came to be on this earth or just another theory that gives you more freedom to livewithin the gray areas of right and wrong ? Everyone finds what they seek in the bible . What have you sought ? Have you actually taken a really deep third party look into who and what you are and who you want to be ? Then your last question will be answered .

reply to post by SimonPeter

Upon what greater authority do you base your decision ? Is it because you dislike the bondage of the Law or do you think that it is wrong .

I think it's wrong. Laws created by a creator who chose to develop the necessity for those laws instead of preventing the necessity entirely. There is no free will, there is do or die. He chooses to pull strings so that his son's death is required to right the wrongs that he allowed to happen and in fact instigated. Quite arguably, the son paid for the father's crimes in order to save the people who are condemned by the father because of how he made them.

None of this makes sense. And if it real, it is an abomination, from beginning to end.

Have the naysayers offered you a more factual answer of how we came to be on this earth or just another theory that gives you more freedom to livewithin the gray areas of right and wrong ?

Well, let's put it this way. If the naysayers have come up with a more plausible explanation that still isn't perfect, what does that say about Christianity, which is neither perfect nor plausible?

Everyone finds what they seek in the bible . What have you sought ? Have you actually taken a really deep third party look into who and what you are and who you want to be ? Then your last question will be answered .

Not exactly. I find lessons, but not history nor prophecy.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Krono

 

Why do athiest deny God without a clue of an alternative answer to the big question ? How did life begin ? Scientist have backed away from a spontaneous occurence of life .The Big Bang does not explain life begining .DNA has complicated things now . Athiest are by nature opposed to the existance of God . They are offended by the existance of a God who will hold them accountable . If they were not still concerned they would not be on this site .

I'm not concerned about an non existent being, I'm concerned about the mental well being of people who believe in false "prophecies" and stories. But, I'm sure I wont change peoples minds on this extremely sensitive matter which is why, believe it or not, I actually respect peoples opinion.

Again, it may seem I don't but I'm just trying to give some balance to the topic.

reply to post by SimonPeter

Why do athiest deny God without a clue of an alternative answer to the big question ? How did life begin ? Scientist have backed away from a spontaneous occurence of life.

Oh boy. Really? Listen, just because we don't have a perfect answer doesn't mean we should automatically default to the most effortless explanation we can think of. Oh, we don't have a definite answers, so we're just going to make stuff up!

Well, by that reasoning, we'll never know! We'll just keep making up more stuff until we actually try to find answers! :bnghd:

The Big Bang does not explain life begining .DNA has complicated things now . Athiest are by nature opposed to the existance of God . They are offended by the existance of a God who will hold them accountable . If they were not still concerned they would not be on this site .

I'm not an atheist, but I do understand the atheist perspective. What you are suggesting here is an extremely idiotic misunderstanding of the atheist viewpoint. Sorry for the less-than-tactful approach, but this is seriously ridiculous.

Atheists aren't offended by being held accountable. They are offended by a being creating them from a flawed design and then holding them accountable even though they had nothing to do with it. Figure in the fact that at any time this being could have restarted from scratch and avoided all the trouble any time he chose, but he preferred to go ahead because it's no skin off his back. So really, according to your Bible, the entire thing is pointless. It's the Hunger Games, designed to keep us in check and distract us at the same time while our father in heaven just sits back with a martini and laughs at our stupidity and hopelessness.

That's what offends the atheists. And they're on this site because, unlike you, they believe deep down that there might be an answer they haven't found yet. And until they find a suitable replacement for their beliefs, they will continue to laugh in your face.

reply to post by godlover25

There are no atheists in foxholes,

Yeah, let me tell you a little bit about that. Humans use god to make their lives seem meaningful, to keep the horrors and chaos at bay. In a foxhole, you are shoulder deep in the purest form of chaos imaginable.

You have two choice: believe there is a higher power waiting to deliver you from this horror, or there is no purpose at all and you'd be better off dying in this foxhole alongside your fallen brothers. And since "God" is the most familiar deity, guess who they turn to in their time of need for reassurance and comfort?

If there was any place that someone could think rationally and logically about anything, it would not be a foxhole.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by windword

 

Upon what greater authority do you base your decision ?

When the OP opines on the "Folly of Atheism" he is only talking about the belief in HIS god. I am very familiar with the Bible and the Christian religion, as I grew up in a Pentecostal, Assembly of God Church. When I left that church and those teaching behind, I said goodby to fear, bigotry and narrow mindedness. I was a self proclaimed atheist for a while, then I had a number truly spiritual experiences that convinced me that there is a "God" or "Christ" consciousness that we can tap into. But is, by no means, exclusive to Christianity.

Is it because you dislike the bondage of the Law or do you think that it is wrong .

What law? The Old Testament law is absurd, mostly illegal and irrelevant. Jesus offered a condensed law, to love God and others. I can follow that law, but my definition of "GOD" is not the Biblical God.

Have the naysayers offered you a more factual answer of how we came to be on this earth or just another theory that gives you more freedom to live within the gray areas of right and wrong ?

What has one got to do with the other? How we came to be has nothing to do with Biblical morality.

Everyone finds what they seek in the bible . What have you sought ? Have you actually taken a really deep third party look into who and what you are and who you want to be ? Then your last question will be answered .

It's true that you can find just about anything in the Bible to justify just about anything you like. In the Old Testament, I see ancient aliens. In the New Testament, I see some good teachings from a heretic, who was murdered by an angry crowd for his age old philosophy. Above that, there is a bunch of manipulation and contradictions that made the New Testament the foundation of a new religion, called Catholicism, thanks to Paul, the self appointed non-apostle who distorted the teaching of Jesus.

I don't believe that Jesus was born from a virgin, I think his miracles can be explained, probably not to your liking. I don't believe that Jesus did die on that cross, and certainly don't believe that he rose from the dead or that his death was a blood sacrifice for my sins.

If Jesus did die on that cross, he did so to fulfill the punishment leveled on the "sons of god," in Psalms 82, that they must die like mortals, because of their failure to fulfill the mandate that they were given by their leader, The Most High. If so, his death had nothing to do with us, and everything to do with him.

I believe in a God, but my GOD is not the guy that sat in Abraham's tent and ate BBQ and cakes. Yahweh is liar and a murderer.

The word of GOD is written in the fabric of the universe. The creation is GOD's body and it's spirit is reflected in our lives and alive in our souls. We are not separated from God, we are part of GOD. It is by the authority of the totality of the universe that I draw my information on the nature of GOD.

reply to post by windword


Thank you for that. A very compelling and thoughtful argument, and it rings more true than many of the beliefs held to be truth by these Christians.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I have found that people who are not interested in understanding a topic will not . First of all the loosly explained beginning of the earth in the bible was written that way for a purpose . The fact is that you can not understand even a fraction of 1 percent of it now . If you can't understand why the bible is explained in the way it was , your understanding has not matured enough yet . When you asked your mother where you came from was she to go into microbiology to explain just a fragment of how it happened . The fact is that you did not need to know . If she said a stork brought you and she never told you different she was still your mother . God who put man here will always be the God and superior . No matter if he was a being from space who created us he will always be God . Think about how impossible to explain to one of your childrenhow they got here and the workings of the world and heavens around them . Im' talking about what man does know for a fact and not any science theory or even biblical theory . Or even what you know . Now think about the Biblical explanation .

Your second statement. I do suppose you like to watch a good football game ! You like a good movie !
God created Man in his own image . In Genesis God said concerning the Tower of Babel that with one mind and one language that nothing would be impossible for man so he confounded their languages to prevent that .
Now my point is we are not unlike God in some ways .
God purposley set up this world for his amusement . Just like when we play chess . If the chess pieces were made alive they would have their own views of your moves also . They would call you stupid for losing pieces not knowing you have sacrificed a piece to take the queen and eventually check the King .
In real life as we call it everybody is a player. Those that deny God are players as well as those that follow God . Everybody plays a part , everybody like it or not ! The lack of a decision to follow the Lord is still a decision to deny him .

reply to post by SimonPeter

I have found that people who are not interested in understanding a topic will not .

Interesting allegation. I'm thinking that perhaps a valid observation is being used as a thinly veiled justification for having a less than stable philosophy. I understand this topic far more than you seem to give me credit for. I can point out a dozen fallacies and at the end of the day, you would be walking away from me, not the other way around.

First of all the loosly explained beginning of the earth in the bible was written that way for a purpose . The fact is that you can not understand even a fraction of 1 percent of it now . If you can't understand why the bible is explained in the way it was , your understanding has not matured enough yet .

Because it was written by sheep herders ignorant by our standards?

When you asked your mother where you came from was she to go into microbiology to explain just a fragment of how it happened . The fact is that you did not need to know .

I didn't have to ask. She said she needed to talk to me, and she pulled out a book and showed me all the clever pictures illustrating copulation, conception, development, and birth. She showed me what all the reproductive organs did, and explained everything that I asked. My mother is very open with me.

And I daresay it was because she has a fair bit more respect for me than you have for your children. I wouldn't keep secrets from my kids. The more secrets you keep, the more opportunities for them to learn a lie in place of the truth. And then guess what happens? They don't trust you anymore.

Oh, dear, sounds like the human race and its relationship with "God".

If she said a stork brought you and she never told you different she was still your mother .

Actually, I probably would have stated in not very nice terms that she was either stupid or very unsupportive of my ability to handle the truth. There was one rule in our family: be honest with us, and we'll be honest with you. Never ever tell a lie.

God who put man here will always be the God and superior . No matter if he was a being from space who created us he will always be God . Think about how impossible to explain to one of your childrenhow they got here and the workings of the world and heavens around them . Im' talking about what man does know for a fact and not any science theory or even biblical theory . Or even what you know . Now think about the Biblical explanation .

No god will ever be superior to me. That god will be my potential self, and if they care anything about me, they will agree that I'm just as valuable as they will ever be.

You know, I get the distinct impression that you don't understand the first thing about being a god. And yet you pretend to understand YOUR god. How pathetic. How pathetic, that the human race will LIE to itself in order to stave off its self-imposed helplessness.

You don't know anything about what it is to be godly. Why do you persist?

Your second statement. I do suppose you like to watch a good football game ! You like a good movie !
God created Man in his own image . In Genesis God said concerning the Tower of Babel that with one mind and one language that nothing would be impossible for man so he confounded their languages to prevent that .

Just another example of how he knew what was going to happen and still did it, then punished us for doing exactly what he knew we would do. Bah!

Now my point is we are not unlike God in some ways .
God purposley set up this world for his amusement . Just like when we play chess . If the chess pieces were made alive they would have their own views of your moves also . They would call you stupid for losing pieces not knowing you have sacrificed a piece to take the queen and eventually check the King .
In real life as we call it everybody is a player. Those that deny God are players as well as those that follow God . Everybody plays a part , everybody like it or not ! The lack of a decision to follow the Lord is still a decision to deny him .

The "God" you worship is a hybrid of who we are and who we want to be. We want to be merciful and benevolent, but we also want to be omniscient and omnipotent, so that we need no longer fear. We're having difficulty balancing these things, because we are unwilling to overcome our fear.

reply to post by AfterInfinity
Oh ! What a disappointment you will be to your self . You will fail yourself miserably and become critical of your own ability to make a resonable decision continually .But that is a lesson you will have to learn on your own. The thing I love is that you will eventually remember this conversation and will it will add to your humiliation . I know I have been there . Thats if you live long enough to see the folly of your own conciet .
Have a good day .

reply to post by SimonPeter

Oh ! What a disappointment you will be to your self . You will fail yourself miserably and become critical of your own ability to make a resonable decision continually .

I hadn't realized that insulting those who disagree with you was a productive argument. And looking upon the fruits of such an endeavor, I can see that it really isn't.

But that is a lesson you will have to learn on your own. The thing I love is that you will eventually remember this conversation and will it will add to your humiliation . I know I have been there . Thats if you live long enough to see the folly of your own conciet .

I hope that, one day, we may sit down over a cup of coffee and I can explain to you that how, even if the historical account portrayed in the Bible is accurate, it still paints this "God" to be a tyrannical paradox of astronomical narcissism and some severe bipolar issues. Maybe, at that time, we will come to know each other better and respect each other's philosophies. Maybe you'll even have a better understanding of your religion.

reply to post by godlover25

I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.

See, that's not how a real GOD would behave.

That's how you would behave, though, right?

That's not love, bro. That's vengeance and spite and callous retribution. Any parent (Father-figure, such as GOD is presented in the Bible) who treats their children that way would be disdained as unfit and incapable of love. That kind of parenting creates pycho kids who become pycho adults.

BTW, where do you guys who do this no-more-than-a-few-lines, non-discursive type of online proselytizing learn how to do that? Is there some club or online course or Bible study class that teaches "how to be abstruse"?

ab·struse
/abˈstro͞os/
Adjective
Difficult to understand; obscure.
Synonyms
obscure - recondite - deep - profound

reply to post by wildtimes

BTW, where do you guys who do this no-more-than-a-few-lines, non-discursive type of online proselytizing learn how to do that? Is there some club or online course or Bible study class that teaches "how to be abstruse"?

They do that on purpose, to prevent their pupils from thinking too deeply about it. Otherwise, these sycophants-in-training would discern exactly what you just posted.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

It reminds me of the dimwit greeter at the Costco in the movie Idiocracy (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED VIEWING!!) - as the shoppers file in he says only 'Welcome to Costco. I love you.'

No one pays him any attention at all.



So as to not to be off-topic,
I'd really like to know what effect these members hope to have by just repeating over and over these "poetic" phrases.

Thomas Paine states in the Age of Reason that the word PROPHET should be "POET".

The Proverbs which are said to be Solomon's, though most probably a collection, (because they discover a knowledge of life, which his situation excluded him from knowing) are an instructive table of ethics. They are inferior in keenness to the proverbs of the Spaniards, and not more wise and oeconomical than those of the American Franklin.

All the remaining parts of the Bible, generally known by the name of the Prophets, are the works of the Jewish poets and itinerant preachers, who mixed poetry, anecdote, and devotion together -- and those works still retain the air and style of poetry, though in translation. [NOTE: As there are many readers who do not see that a composition is poetry, unless it be in rhyme, it is for their information that I add this note.

Poetry consists principally in two things -- imagery and composition. The composition of poetry differs from that of prose in the manner of mixing long and short syllables together. Take a long syllable out of a line of poetry, and put a short one in the room of it, or put a long syllable where a short one should be, and that line will lose its poetical harmony. It will have an effect upon the line like that of misplacing a note in a song.

The imagery in those books called the Prophets appertains altogether to poetry. It is fictitious, and often extravagant, and not admissible in any other kind of writing than poetry.

reply to post by wildtimes


Vengeance is Mine, saith Yod-Hovah

reply to post by godlover25

Vengeance is Mine, saith Yod-Hovah

Oddly enough, that sounds more like a Sith Lord than a loving god. Can anyone else see Darth Vader saying this?

*hoooooooo pa* "Kneel to me, Jedi Council. Vengeance is mine." *hoooooo pa*

reply to post by godlover25


Cursing is a form of sorcery, don't ye know? It is illegal under Biblical law.

reply to post by windword


Haha! If only they knew that every form of church service is actually a form of witchcraft. It's PAGAN, that's why it's part of Christianity! It was brought in with the rest of the slaughtered rags from the spiritual massacre! All part of the Christian "Frankenstein"...

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Words of reason , you don't have it all figured out . Your view now is a defiant one . You don't even know the right questions to be asked , how could you know the answers . And yes you will fail yourself and others miserably . Humility is an exellent teacher and is visited upon all but the very ignorant people . And you are not ignorant , only young and seemingly bullet proof and defiant . Your real education will start when the world kicks your tail just like it does to everyone who came before you . LIve long and pay attention .

reply to post by SimonPeter

Words of reason , you don't have it all figured out . Your view now is a defiant one . You don't even know the right questions to be asked , how could you know the answers .

Please, enlighten me. What questions should I be asking?

And yes you will fail yourself and others miserably . Humility is an exellent teacher and is visited upon all but the very ignorant people . And you are not ignorant , only young and seemingly bullet proof and defiant .

I talk to people twice my age who agree with me, here on ATS. It has very little to do with age. I appreciate your degrading tone, though. It speaks of the "Holy Spirit" within you. I'm sure a man who has been touched by "God" has earned the right to address people like they're garbage, like they aren't worth the space they occupy. You have truly shown me the depth of compassion one can achieve through Christianity.

The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." - Mark 12:31

...oh, well, that chances matters now, doesn't it?

Your real education will start when the world kicks your tail just like it does to everyone who came before you . LIve long and pay attention .

Your manner is quite compelling. I almost want to listen to you, despite your continued attitude. Might want to do something about that, actually. A friendly suggestion from a friendly neighbor.