Father's frustrated letter goes viral; highlights the generation gap

reply to post by Annee


Hi, Annee,
According to the article, the mother and father both were children of military families.

I think there is certain "culture" and "expectation" in multi-generational military families. It's not the same as civilian culture, and it's a sort of "culture shock" for military personnel to hear about non-military (read: less strict discipline) types of leadership.

The article also said their own parents were OPPOSED to their marriage as well. Sounds like a family system of rigidity, high expectations, and military/regimental technique. The armed forces profoundly change the adolescents that they recruit (at least here in the USA; not aware of the UK being any different in terms of "shut up and do it" and "following orders", but it might be). When a person with military background becomes a parent, s/he has to remember that his/her own adolescence was tailored to being a warrior, NOT a civilian.

If he's blaming his kids for being too soft and underachieving, he needs to look at HIS OWN expectations, and what he put into the family to help instill those values.

reply to post by PrplHrt


Ya because everyone is completely honest with their parents about every aspect of their life.....riiiight.

Originally posted by wildtimes

If he's blaming his kids for being too soft and underachieving, he needs to look at HIS OWN expectations, and what he put into the family to help instill those values.

I totally agree with you.

However. My angle is - - the very first sentence is about how they treat their mother. That is a Red Flag.

If you have children - how do they treat you? Do they respect you? Children only respect you - - if YOU demand it. I don't mean brutal demanding. But kids will take advantage if you let them.

If the mother is being disrespected - - - she is not demanding respect.

He is a strong personality and seems protective of his wife. Does his wife really need protection?

His wife might be a very sweet woman who was a bit over indulgent of her kids. That is not the kids fault.

And I'm not saying the wife/mother is wrong - - - but she was the primary care taker - - - he wasn't.

I think the letter should have never been made public, thats the one thing I dont understand. Oh boo who, try being homeless or having a incurable disease. Sounds more like this guy "invested" in his children hoping he could retire easy. But yeah I dont care for the letter itself, I just dont think it should be on a popular news website in the first place.

reply to post by FailedProphet


Well, he is right. I wholly agree. I was talking in another thread about how education throughout the world under the thumb of the Reserve Banking Cartel seems to have stopped teaching people HOW to think, and instead started teaching them WHAT to think.

Of course, in every sea of drab and grey stones there are a few that are either black or white. Those folks are the folks like many here at ATS (where we instinctively teach ourselves HOW to think and forget what we were told to think). That is me. White or black, take you pick....i just know I am not grey.

If you spend a fortune in your kids college, and they don't monetize that in a way that gives you a return on your investment (peace of mind, as an example of a return), then you have a right to express buyers remorse. I have a similar issue right now, with my oldest son doing absolutely nothing to prepare for his post-college life. No work history, and a degree in journalism/english....good luck with that. But he won't listen to my input (never really has) and will have to sleep in the bed he is making.

But I am no college graduate. I do work that displaces people with a business degree or a finance degree. You don't need a degree to do the work of someone with a degree. You just need to be insightful and intellectually spry. If you have a degree to go with that, you should do quite well.

reply to post by Annee


Respect = 1 part fear + 1 part love.

Plain and simple. If someone loves you, and fears your reprisal (not violence), then they respect you.

The 1 thing that scares my youngest son more than anything is disappointing me. Even with that, i can't get his lazy butt to carry out the trash on a daily basis without a fight.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Annee

 

Respect = 1 part fear + 1 part love.

Plain and simple. If someone loves you, and fears your reprisal (not violence), then they respect you.

The 1 thing that scares my youngest son more than anything is disappointing me. Even with that, i can't get his lazy butt to carry out the trash on a daily basis without a fight.

LOL Good for you.

I only had me and my 2 daughters. We went through our challenges - - but we're good right now.

Except I recently de-friended my oldest from Facebook - - - because of her ups and downs with her husband. The roller coaster emotions were making me physically ill - - - so I cut her off. She can deal with it. She says I'm being childish. I said "I choose to be happy and not deal with your emotional roller coaster".

Oh yeah the trash thing. I have a 12 year old granddaughter I am helping raise. They sure live in their own universe.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by FailedProphet

 

Well, he is right. I wholly agree.

I finally read the entire article and email.

I totally agree with the Dad. He's right.

These are the kind of things you don't necessarily understand until you do watch your own kids become adults.

reply to post by Annee

If you have children - how do they treat you? Do they respect you? Children only respect you - - if YOU demand it. I don't mean brutal demanding. But kids will take advantage if you let them.

Oh yes, they certainly WILL take advantage....of your crazy love for them, of your wish for them to be happy.....

But, yes, I DO have children, and they treat me as a person. I think they respect me more as they are getting older and able to extract some wisdom from my "tenure" as their mom. I was not so much of a disciplinarian; I urged my kids to learn to identify their emotions, to explore their interests, to "deconstruct" their experiences, and to talk to me about whatever was on their minds.

I'm sure I don't know EVERYTHING about their lives, but, OTOH, I was advised (took confession?) of their early adolescent goings-on (sexual activity, substance use, etc). I helped them both whenever I could, and it was really hard for me to learn that as their Mom, I could not also be their therapist.

It's hard, thinking-on-your-feet, needing-the-info work. Parenting. The hardest and most rewarding job on the planet.

It makes me sad that people are more focused on keeping their "careers" on track than striving to be the best parent they can be. I've known women in their mid- to late-thirties who had kids "because it's now or never", but knew from the get-go that they would put those kids in daycare.

I made sacrifices so that I KNEW I was raising my own kids. Those sacrifices were NOTHING compared to the rewards of having successfully kept them alive, learning, and growing, and being available to them. My kids were everything. I think anyone who has kids has to be aware that your life is no longer "your own." You are beholden to them, and they depend utterly on you. Handing them over to someone else is tragic.

Originally posted by theMediator
Ok so a 67 year old retired navy submarine captain isn't happy how his children turned out.

Seriously, what did he do better? Obviously, he must of just shut up and follow orders to get promoted, got a good salary and high retirement bonuses.

His kids might not make that much money but at least they haven't joined a murderous terrorist group to get there.

Poor man's ego, can't even boast with his children.

edit on 25-11-2012 by theMediator because: (no reason given)

"high retirement bonuses". What are these. I would like even a small one. Thank you. Life is fricken tough even loaded with skills and qualities. No more retirement handouts for those who show a lifetime of loyalty.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by FailedProphet

 

Generational differences are real, and they matter.

Can't argue with that. Responsible parents usually means somewhat strict parents. Their kids grow up thinking that they wouldn't raise their kids that way. Then these free-spirited parents leave their kids frustrated because of a lack of firm guidelines, so they grow up to be responsible parents with firm rules. And so on and so on.

This can go either way, you can be so strict that you shelter your children and stop them from learning crucial social skills required -- out there.

I was brought up with stupid strict parents and it has produced a conundrum that I cannot seem to solve.

I wasn't allowed to cross the street, go anywhere without chaperone, stay home by myself, go out with friends.

Therefor, a large amount of my childhood was being bullied and picked on, and being alone with a guardian in the other room.

Suffice it to say -- currently, I don't find interesting what most find interesting. I'm very quiet unless there is something to talk about specifically.

I am pretty much incapable of "Idle" chit chat -- it's just.... awkward. I read, I post about things that interest me -- the things that interest me are usually macro. What I find entertaining is otherwise a miss to people that aren't me. I like to read/write and study. I watch no television apart from 1 tv show, which I stream off the internet since I don't even have tv since I don't watch it. I don't like to go out -- because what's there to do? Wiggle and gyrate to god awful music? Talk about celebrities that I've never heard of? How about those cowboys? I wouldn't know a thing about that stuff because to me it's just dumb.

I understand the interest in playing a game or sport, I understand less the interest in watching a game or sport.

It makes sense to me, for those that play said game to watch said game, to improve at said game. If you don't play said game, what is the point in watching it? I often find that people who are into stuff like this are generally bland/shallow/not really intelligent people. They don't know the difference between a republican or a democrat, furthermore, they are blind to the fact that in actuality -- it doesn't really matter, history proves the only difference is how they shuffle the deck. One side bridges, the other side cuts -- in the end, the deck is shuffled the same, is it not?

So yeah -- strict parents ruin their kids. I find that, the more freedoms parents afford to their kids, the better they grow.

Parents are supposed to teach you common sense and manners, the rest you kind of have to develop through your own experiences, if you aren't allowed to have any, that development doesn't really take place.

Affording your kids freedom does not equate to free reign either, but you must use discretion.

For instance; my little brother is ten years old and his parents won't let him stay home alone. My parents didn't either until they got divorced, then it was because there was no other choice. However, I was around the same age as him when that happened.

A kid should be fine for short bids on his own as young as 8, sheltering him so he never has to do anything for himself all the way up to 15 isn't doing any good for him, in fact -- it's doing more harm then good.

There is such thing as protective, and then -- classically, over protective.

Strict is over protective. Not caring is under protective. That middle ground is the best for raising children.

It's a parents job to make sure that their child understand reality, not some twisted variant that only exists within your childs own experience bubble.

My dad was born in '51 and he's afraid of everything. "Don't drive on holidays, you'll die" -- "Watch out, this lane merges" -- "Never ride a motorcycle, they all lose legs or die eventually" -- "Don't go skydiving, the chute may not open" etc.

That's strict. Can't do anything, because of what *COULD* happen. That's no way to live and experience life, IMO. It's certainly an environment that stifles growth of character and self development.

I must add, that -- no matter how smart you are, if you don't obtain a good set of social skills, you're not going anywhere productive in life.

Job interview? Good luck with getting hired "weirdo." Promotion? Not likely, since you go to work to work, and not to socialize. Get married have kids? Where does that start for the kids that were bullied their whole life, and were beaten into thinking their "less" than acceptable.


There will always be a generational gap as long as people continue to grasp to ideologies that are false. The world changes, what was true yesterday is false tomorrow -- if we aren't raising our kids to accept this fact and we just pass down the stupid from the previous generations -- how will we ever grow as a society?



What the world needs, is a proper shift. We went from tribes to cities. From Chief's to dictator, from dictator to limited dictator....

We went from stone, to metal, to wood, to plastic...

It's time for a world shift to happen, for society to become a new with these principles in mind.

It's time to usher in the age of glass. The first true transparent society where freedom is of utmost priority.

To those who disagreed with me:
I stand by my comments that the father is a shallow man who cares more about what other people think, than what his own children think or feel.

I completely understand how some are missing that this is not being shallow.
Life isn't really about caring what other people think and having something to show off about..
Nobody wants to listen to you show off anyways.

The definition of ignorant is when you don't know you are being ignorant. I was this ignorant.
I probably still am, it's hard to change how you were raised
Its not a generation gap at all. It's cultural or the pressure put upon people by society in general.

No I do not know him personally. I only know from experience. I was born in England and have British family who acts like this. To me its just so typical and probably not fully understood by those not having ever lived in this culture. To those still living there, they might not see this either. Maybe i lived in the wrong part of UK, or i just have this type of fam ily. i didn't think about this until I was older and married with my own children and living in Canada. I'm the odd one out in my family because I refuse to adhere to certain standards others feel the need to remind me of. When I was doing that I was completely miserable. I've never asked for any help from my parents, my siblings have. My kids are all grown up and in my opinion are doing good. My daughters lost their jobs after I was paralyzed in 2010 and they helped take care of me. I have set them back in life. I don't like that I've caused this. I am thankful they help me.

When my daughter worked at a subway for a few months, my family made me feel embarrassed about that and she in turn was made to feel like a loser. She said " why do they keep asking where I work?" I replied they just do that, ignore them.

Yes I call my father to chat and as of late I've cried my woes to him but only because he is calling everyday and asks how I am. I just came home from hospital.

My kids said " why do you have to call grandad and tell him this stuff?" He said to tell them " I tried calling the manager at Safeway and he wouldn't listen and hung up on me".

I'm not trying to be a know it all.
Sorry if I came off that way. It wasn't my intention.
It's just an observation on my part.

I don't understand why it should bother him so, he brought them into this world but he can't live life for them.

People need to start living their own lives and stop trying to live through their kids. Whether it's this father or those pathetic women to dress their babies up like 20-year-olds and put them in pageants! I could see upset if they were addicts or criminals, but everyone has a story. If people are "all that" in thinking they can get on the high horse when their kids don't live up to their ideals, then they need a reality check. Some need to do a little soul searching and become satisfied with themselves.

there is a quote that comes to mind about casting stones.....

The problem as I see it, being the father of three underachievers myself, is not so much that the kids are underachieving, but that they lay the drama of it all back on the parents, in this case primarily the mother. If you want use your $100K Marine Science degree that I paid for into watching goldfish at Starbucks for the rest of your life, have at it! It's just that I don't want the blowback.

I don't want the blowback from your three failed marriages, each to a train wreck I'm expected to "respect and love" until you dump or get dumped and I'm supposed to transfer all my affections to the next crazy bag of issues you drag home, and all the in between one night stands besides. You never seem to learn.

I don't want the blowback the next time you get fired because your pregnant girlfriend calls your personnel office so many times they decide your "character is lacking" and they get rid of you because they don't want to be associated with your reputation. You never seem to learn.

And I don't want the blowback because you decide to have four kids you can't possibly pay for, hint, hint, and can no way pay their college costs, hint, hint, and then lie to me about your extra-marital affairs I found out about. What the hell is wrong with you?

And I'm sick and tired of listening to nightly phone calls where you unload your entire day's events, including every breath you took, while all I hear her say is, "Oh, no!" "Oh, my God, I'm so sorry!" as you bask in your day's worth of sympathy.

And I'm especially tired of you coming over here with your brood, completely taking over the house with constant demands for movies, entertainment, and the ever-present, "I'm hungry!" only to have me spend $100 to feed your fat asses and have your husband drink so much he pukes on the carpet all night. Oh, so sorry. Guess it snuck up on me.

And yeah, putting your name on the pictures on my wall you fancy may seem hardy har funny to you, but it frankly pisses me off. Obviously you can't wait for the day you can swoop in and confiscate every penny I have saved so you can blow it all on another boat or muscle car. But I'll tell you what. One of you is already written out of the will, and the others are tilting at the brink. I'm going to do everything I can to make sure you don't get it.

So you want to live your life free from the demands of interfering parents? I understand that. To do so requires leaving me alone and dealing with all your issues yourselves rather than dumping them on us. When I was 40 years old I didn't have a mother to even call, much less seek daily advice from, which I would never think of doing.

So if you don't want me to interfere with your life, that entails you getting one.

As Marcus Aurelius said (in "Gladiator" at least):

"Your faults as a son is my failure as a father."

I am a son and a father who stands by the above quote 100%.

reply to post by schuyler


I would give that reply of yours a million stars if I could!

Originally posted by schuyler
The problem as I see it, being the father of three underachievers myself, is not so much that the kids are underachieving, but that they lay the drama of it all back on the parents, in this case primarily the mother. If you want use your $100K Marine Science degree that I paid for into watching goldfish at Starbucks for the rest of your life, have at it! It's just that I don't want the blowback.

Love it. You must have actually raised kids.

Neither of mine were students. One has ADD. But both have worked since they were 14. They began in an insurance office making phone calls to clients. One tried to play hookey from work once - by calling in sick. You would've thought it was world war III by the time I got done with her. She never did that again.

Today both have good jobs - - - probably making more then a lot of those with college educations.

reply to post by schuyler


You should send your kids a link to this page, and let them figure it out from there.

Great post.

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
As Marcus Aurelius said (in "Gladiator" at least):

"Your faults as a son is my failure as a father."

I am a son and a father who stands by the above quote 100%.

Agreed. As a father, he gets to assume the responsibility of the failure of his own children. Obviously, he screwed up in the parenting department or would not be so ashamed and embarassed of the children HE had a hand in raising.

Good job Dad!

and really it comes down to his view of hiself for everything is but a reflection. He sounds like a miserable old man who failed to discover what is truly important in life.

Maybe a new approach to parenting is needed so that you don't end up with failures as children.

Golden

Note: I am a father and I feel highly responsible for how my children develop, and they have love most of all and I love them for who they are. They are a blessing and should always be viewed, appreciated, cared and nurtured, IMO.

To answer the OP's questions:

I don't care either way.. It is none of my business how this man raised his children, what his expectations were or how his children turned out.

And neither should you..

I see what has transpired in this thread as being prime examples of at least two of the biggest problems with society today which includes the very occasion of this letter going viral.

1. People need to mind their own business.

2. People need to stop jumping to conclusions and spouting their "expert" opinions as if they actually have any idea of what the situation really was with this family or the condition of their upbringing. You do not know these people personally so you do not know who they are, how they are or whether they deserved it.

Unless you are someone that is a member of this family or a family friend that has known them for years and years STFU and mind your own business..

That includes everyone especially the person responsible for something like this going viral.

To all the posters in this thread: You look like a bunch of gossiping hens.