New Russian UFO Video -- Tolyatti, Nov 21

reply to post by JimOberg

Does this conform to past patterns?

For a rocket launch yes , but you already know that so why post this minimal thread on an IFO
Seems to me your just playing games Jim

How many times have these types of missile launches gone astray been debunked? ...and not only on this site, I've seen these videos broken down on debunking television shows.


If these videos strike a fancy, use the search function on here and try to convince yourself these are anything but a missile launch. I'll admit, at first sight I thought that was some out of this world phenomenon...but after doing some reading and being shown conclusive evidence in threads here and else where...it's safe to say these "sightings" are in fact man man, missile launches.


Just to keep the conversation going.


Why is it that Russians are having these issues? Do other countries have these same problems (missiles exploding into insane spirals)? Is this caused from a lack of quality product or simply a failure during testing? Are these videos not found from U.S. cameras because of secrecy?


What's the deal ATS?

Originally posted by BurialKing
Agreed this looks pretty identical to a Missile....... Nothing to see here people.

Would you please provide any videos of known missiles which are similar in appearance? The country and date would be helpful to establish the authenticity, thanks.

No gimmick here, the issue of spectacular sky apparitions and how many of them are caused by space/missile activity remains a serious topic.

This one looks like a 'normal' rocket launch, and when the date can be established -- something that too often is hard or impossible to do -- a matching launch will probably be found.

BUT....

'Space spirals' have always fascinated me as a real-life 'rocket scientist', and calling them all 'failed rockets' just doesn't wash.

I believe most are NOT caused by 'failures', since many are observed on identified missile.launcher ascents that did NOT fail, or at least, did not fail during the early ascent stage that was observed.

On ICBM test flights, especially out of Kapustin Yar, a brief spiral at the end of powered flight is almost certainly the equivalent of the MX warhead spin-up and deploy on US missiles. There are MX launch animations on youtube that show exactly that phase of launch.

On solid-fuel ICBM launches, the spirals that have been for at least 30 years observed in northern Russia and neighboring countries are much longer in duration, so spin-up is implausible as the cause. They are also quite uniform: usually two streamers, and usually seen to cut off suddenly and sharply at both ends. That also argues against them being a reuslt of an out-of-control tumbling rocket [there ARE a few such videos of this on youtube and those spirals clearly are irregular in direction and duration].

I suspect the 'normal' solid-fuel ICBM spirals are a feature of thrust-dumping, a feature of a solid rocket -- which cannot be shut down once ignited -- being launched toward a target at significantly shorter than maximum range. From the submarine launch areas in the White Sea, or even Plesetsk, the Kura-Kamchatka impact range is nowhere near as far as the missile's maximum range. So to prevent overshoots, the missile must 'shed' excess thrust, and the most common method of doing so is to long-axis rotate the missile and open opposing side thrust-dumping ports. This creates a tightly-wound double-spiral [ when seen on or near the horizon this has sometimes been reported or dran as 'expanding circles']

Once actually IN orbit, spirals have been seen to have been created by fuel dumps as the booster randomly rolls or tumbles -- the Australia sighting of the SpaceX Dragon first orbital mission, for example, a few years ago. This has been a feature of orbital missions since the dawn of the Space Age and has been seen for nearly as long. Just not widely videotaped until recently.

So I wanted to stress the multiple potential prosaic causes of 'space spirals' so that any additional stimuli can be filtered out and focussed in on.

Launches -- particularly Russian and Chinese ones -- have been sparking UFO reports over Eurasia for decades, as well, and many 'classic' signtings on long-published archival chronicles, including sightings by pilots, remain to be filtered out. What I find distressing is not just the initial inability of researchers to do so, but even more, their continuing defiant denial of the NEED to do so.

UFO sightings caused by satellite reentries, particularly the spectacular fireball fragment fleets from falling rocket stages, are another categoty entirely. We discussed that in the "1996 Yukon" thread not long ago.

The degree to which witnesses, INCLUDING PILOTS, misperceive and misinterpret such visual stimuli is pretty shocking, and needs to be more precisely mapped out. That's why these kinds of UFO reports deserve serious attention and study, for 'instrumental calibration' purposes if nothing else.

IMHO, of course.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Another one...

11/21/2012 11:41:00
(видео) В Тольятти засняли НЛО
tltgorod.ru...

Does this conform to past patterns?

Sorry but this video is not new but from 2006, the famous sighting from Tomsk
and yes, already discussed here several times. here is the original 2006 thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...]

You may want to consider to change the false title of this thread of yours, not new
not Tolyatti and certainly not Nov. 21. Or simply close the thread and turn the page.

Originally posted by free_spirit
Sorry but this video is not new but from 2006, the famous sighting from Tomsk
and yes, already discussed here several times. here is the original 2006 thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...]
You may want to consider to change the false title of this thread of yours, not new
not Tolyatti and certainly not Nov. 21. Or simply close the thread and turn the page.

Wow!! Definite 'hit', I screen-capped your cited video and compared the street-light pattern to this one labeled 'Tolyatti', and they are a perfect match. That was a surprise to me, but it shouldn't have been --
so many of these videos get relabeled and recycled.

Maybe that should be the main theme -- how unreliable the descriptions of such videos often is, and how important it is to involve interested entghusiasts with good visual memories to 'vet' them.

BIG favor, you've done me and all of us. Dang, this is the ATS hive-mind at its cosmic best!

Let me see what I can do about the thread title.... [edit -- nothing, apparently]

ADD: The 'original' video has no pedigree I can read, no source and no date of origin. So that posting may not even be the first one.

Originally posted by JimOberg

No gimmick here

So you didn't know what it was when you posted it?

Or you did know but posted it in the UFO forum anyway?

I think you should be banned, others have been banned for posting similar kinds of threads.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

15). Posting: You will not Post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate. You will not solicit personal information from any member. You will not use information gathered from this website to harass, abuse or harm other people.

Originally posted by JimOberg

So I wanted to stress the multiple potential prosaic causes of 'space spirals' so that any additional stimuli can be filtered out and focussed in on.

You certainly didn't accomplish that with your 1 line OP.

Originally posted by JimOberg

The degree to which witnesses, INCLUDING PILOTS, misperceive and misinterpret such visual stimuli is pretty shocking, and needs to be more precisely mapped out. That's why these kinds of UFO reports deserve serious attention and study, for 'instrumental calibration' purposes if nothing else.

So what does your video, which was taken from the ground, have to do with PILOTS in all caps?

Originally posted by gortex

Seems to me your just playing games Jim

I agree. Good luck calibrating your instruments Jim.

Originally posted by freelance_zenarchist

...Good luck calibrating your instruments Jim.

The 'instruments' in question is human eyewitness testimony, and missile/space events provide a unique mechanism whereby what people report can be compared to known visual stimuli.

The original link was to a genuine 'UFO story', like so many others that serve as opening posts hereabouts.

I had tentative ideas about what it might have been but chose not to prejudice the responses, and correctly so -- since a later poster revealed the link i gave was NOT a current sighting/video but was several years old. So my own 'suspicions' were unprovable.

It was a good cautionary tale for me and others.

Meanwhile, snce the actual time/date of the video is unknown, the identification of its stimulus remains unknown.

It LOOKS like a rocket launching but I can't prove it is one.

How is that a misleading UFO thread?