Syria - Update and Information thread

reply to post by intrptr


They're not "US Patriots" they're German Patriots, operated by German troops, and owned by the Bundeswehr. Yes, they were built in the US, but they were sold to the Germans, and operated by the Germans.

As for McCain, he's an idiot. You can dress it in any other term you like, but that doesn't change the fact that he's an idiot.

As for Desert Shield, it started defensively for a reason. We needed time. Time to negotiate, and more importantly time to build up our forces in case of war. When Iraq named Kuwait its 19th province, then the chances of a peaceful resolution were going away quickly. Everyone knew a war was coming, but you can't have a war without troops being present. So we went in to defend Saudi Arabia with air units, and built up the ground units to take Kuwait back.

Rules of engagement?

www.euronews.com...

reply to post by intrptr

"Turkey's request, when it came to Patriots, was to augment its air defences with the capacity to deal with the threat of ballistic missiles and particularly the threat of ballistic missiles potentially armed with chemical warheads," another NATO diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity, said.

www.reuters.com...

Rules of engagement: Protect Turkey from missile attack.

Both NATO and Turkey have insisted that the deployment of the U.S.-made surface-to-air missiles was a purely defensive move. Turkish President Abdullah Gul said last week that it was a “precautionary measure”.

“An attack (by Turkey on Syria) is out of the question,” he added.

The NATO spokeswoman said “such a deployment would augment Turkey’s air defense capabilities to defend the population and territory of Turkey (...) It would serve as a deterrent to possible threat”.

Source

If they do go ahead with the deployment, which it looks like they will, it will be up to 6 batteries, with 300-400 troops to operate them. The deployment time is in the weeks to months time frame.

Even if you just read the titles of these articles and the dates you can see the number of bombing raids in the Northern part of Syria along the border with Turkey. All that will stop when the Patriot missile batteries are activated.

Syrian air raids near Turkish border...

reply to post by intrptr


Yes, I realize this. But that doesn't change the fact that McCain is an idiot, and Patriots are not offensive weapons systems.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Syria attack NATO----err, I mean Turkey? Riiiight. NATO isn't looking for an excuse or anything to wage aggressive war on Syria. So far, All the bombing raids in the North are directed at "rebels" and their command and supply lanes supporting the insurgency inside Syrian borders.

Asking Nato what they are doing in Turkey right now in regards to Syria is like asking the fox what it is doing in the hen house.

"Ohhh, nothing". I expect NATO, the Pentagon and the US state department to lie their asses off. But we'll see huh?

Waiting for the first shoot down of a Syrian jet along the Turkish border on the Syrian side. I suppose when the YouTube comes out people say it was a meteor...

reply to post by intrptr


Well we'll be waiting awhile, because it will be at minimum several weeks before anything is in place. Probably closer to two months minimum.

reply to post by intrptr


It sure gets suspicious in my ears when I hear in the news that syria might attack turkey or even their own people with chemical weapons soon.

On the radio this morning in my car they said the change of Assad attacking his own cities with chemical weapons is pretty big.
As Assad said himself; only a madmen will attack his own people.
And just before this a total black out of the internet there, sure sounds like a false flag attack coming soon?

reply to post by Plugin

It sure gets suspicious in my ears when I hear in the news that syria might attack turkey or even their own people with chemical weapons soon.
---
As Assad said himself; only a madmen will attack his own people.

Uh, huh. Ramping up the rhetoric. It is imperative that the world have some sort of excuse to justify another invasion? Seeing as how there isn't really any justification?

Just so it's clear.
Syria has not used one ounce of chemical weapons on anyone ever. Syria has never threatened to employ chemical weapons either. As far as I can tell there is not one shred of proof that he is intending to use them, either in war or against his own people.

On the other hand NATO, Israel and the US have employed vast quantities of "chemical weapons" in war and against indigenous populations including but not limited to Napalm, White Phosphorous, Agent Orange and Depleted Uranium.

reply to post by Zaphod58

As far as tactics go? If I was in charge of press releases I wouldn't let on I was going to deploy a weapons system in advance. I would wait till it was in place, then announce it slowly in stages.

The "approval stage" has just been announced today:

Patriots for Turkey approved...

If you scan the article titles coming out across the internet today you'll notice that every one of them begins with the sentence:

"Nato approved the installment of Patriot missile systems along the Turkish border in order to bolster its defense..."

And all the other defensive measures like military bases and naval elements in the gulf that surround the region generally, but Syria and Iran specifically? Purely defensive.

Just observing...

"Syrian rebels kill 29 students in attack on school near Damascus"
rt.com...

A mortar attack by Syrian rebels on a school near Damascus has reportedly killed 29 students and a teacher,local SANA news agency reported.

Earlier reports by a local TV broadcaster said that eight students and a teacher were killed in the attack on Bteiha School in the Wafideen camp, about 20 kilometers northeast of Damascus.
The Wafideen camp is home to some 25,000 people forced out of the Golan Heights, which has been occupied by Israel since 1967.

Although the attack was confirmed by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, the identity of the attackers remains unknown. Syria's state news agency reported that an unspecified group of rebels shelled the school.
“They were killed by a mortar launched by terrorists,” the broadcaster said, referring to the rebels fighting the pro-government forces.

We'll have to watch for details to see who was responsible.

Just came across a few things from this site here, which I haven't looked through myself yet, thought I'd post 'em while I had a minute:

willyloman.wordpress.com...

"Syria - Situation in Aleppo"

willyloman.wordpress.com...

He has posted this video:



"FSA preparing for a FAKE massacre to blame Syrian Govt (more examples of fabricated news)"

Go to this facebook page to view a video of some FSA “professional jihadists” putting on fake blood and laying down in a couple piles in order to make it look like a massacre conducted by the Assad regime. I cannot verify the date of the video since it isn’t listed on the page but it goes to show you the lengths they will go to in order to carry out Hillary’s regime change plan in Syria. Below is a video from a couple months ago detailing several fabricated stories, from al Jazeera and CNN.

reply to post by intrptr


Actually they announced it last night. Again, how is a SAM system anything but defensive? Oh wait, because McCain said it isn't?

Turkey is a NATO ally. NATO is following through on their treaty, by assisting a member that has requested aid. What would you have them do, ignore them, and tell them to piss off? If they do that, what's the point of the treaty?

Originally posted by intrptr

On the other hand NATO, Israel and the US have employed vast quantities of "chemical weapons" in war and against indigenous populations including but not limited to Napalm, White Phosphorous, Agent Orange and Depleted Uranium.

White Phosphorus and DU aren't chemical weapons. WP is prohibited for use against people, as it is used to mark targets, and as a smoke screen, but it's not on the list of chemical weapons. Neither is DU.

reply to post by Zaphod58

White Phosphorus and DU aren't chemical weapons. WP is prohibited for use against people, as it is used to mark targets, and as a smoke screen, but it's not on the list of chemical weapons. Neither is DU.

Yes, "the list". When you get right down to it, chemicals are used in all military ordnance. Chemicals make up the propellant charge, the fusing and the explosive fillers to every bullet and bomb. It is the chemical reaction of detonation that causes concussive effects, burns and blast damage. The humane killing in war is allowed, but the inhumane is not? Whats the criteria, how long it takes to die?

The list of weapons aren't any more inhumane than the other kind. "Rules of engagement" are euphemistically designed for the people who's governments wage aggressive war on other countries. Violations are excused as the Fog of War.

By the way, Depleted Uranium (DU) should head that inhumane list.

reply to post by Zaphod58

Again, how is a SAM system anything but defensive? Oh wait, because McCain said it isn't?

Actually, you said it too...

There is no offensive capability to the Patriot, unless it's shot at a plane or helicopter.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So if McCain is "an idiot" for saying the Patriot might be employed as an offensive weapon, what do you have to say about your statement?

Wait... don't answer that. Your posts are knowledgable on here Zaphod, The last thing I want to do is alienate you.

Truce... okay?

Senate orders report on military options in Syria
The US Senate has voted 92-6 to require President Obama to review and report on the possibility of US involvement in Syria. The purpose of the legislation is “to advance the goals of President Obama of stopping the killing of civilians in Syria and creating conditions for a transition to a democratic, pluralistic, political system in Syria.” The resolution gives Defense Secretary Leon Panetta 90 days to provide a classified report on at least three options: deploying Patriot missiles in neighboring countries, imposing a no-fly zone in Syria and conducting airstrikes on Syrian military assets.

Syrian civil war spills into Lebanon

reply to post by intrptr


Because when you're a pilot, ANYTHING shot at you is an offensive weapon. When you're looking at the weapons themselves, there are offensive and defensive weapons. The closest a Patriot can be to an offensive weapon is to shoot at planes.

A few articles to post:

On the chemical weapons:

"On Syria’s Alleged Chemical Weapons and the Prospect for War" December 03, 2012
antiwar.com...

A little more info, and pretty much what we've been saying - highly suspicious.

The only thing worrying the Assad regime more than the rebellion is the prospect of some kind of US-led bombing campaign or invasion, which could undoubtedly topple the regime but would then lead to such destruction and chaos that the country would be ruined and a lengthy occupation and counter-insurgency effort would inevitably follow, à la Iraq. So Assad isn’t about to attract that sort of attention.

Additionally, for what its worth, Russia has guaranteed Assad’s restraint on chemical weapons use. That’s not a pledge one of the the five most powerful nations in the world makes lightly.

If I were to speculate, again, assuming the reports are true, Assad could be making such moves in order to deter international action against his regime.

"Thousands of Jihadists Joining Syrian Rebels - Radical clerics are calling on jihadists to join the fight against Assad, ironically with US help" December 03, 2012
news.antiwar.com...

Nice to see more and more people acknowledging it.


"U.S. might name Syrian rebel Nusra Front a foreign terrorist group" December 4, 2012
www.mcclatchydc.com...

WASHINGTON — In an apparent bid to isolate Islamist extremists and bolster a new Western-backed Syrian opposition alliance, the United States is moving to declare one of the most effective Syrian rebel groups a foreign terrorist organization because of its alleged ties to al Qaida.

Definitely some funny business here...Trying to regain some credibility? Reinforce the illusion that they haven't been colluding with AQ for years now? Who knows...

"Israel Repeatedly Asked Jordan to Back Attack on Syria in Past Two Months. Official: 'You Know the Israelis - Sometimes They Want to Bomb Right Away' " December 03, 2012
news.antiwar.com...

They've been in this since day 1 , IMO

"Iraq Blocks Turkish Energy Minister’s Visit, Forces Plane to Turn Around
Revoked Permits for Flight Into Kurdish Capital" December 04, 2012
news.antiwar.com...

"Rachel Maddow, War Propagandist: Syria, the media, and the search for another “Benghazi Moment”
December 05, 2012 original.antiwar.com...

This one's really snarky, lol.

twitter:

30m jim mc donald @ Jimmcdoo
# Islamist and # FSA terrorists dying in huge numbers throughout # Syria . NATO's PSY-OP chemical weapons, cover for poor rebel performance

Probably...I read that in Libya, they brought in trained forces to 'win' areas and then let the 'rebels' take credit for it, both for morale and public perception...