Where was Israel?

How can the biblical Israel be on the coast of the med when it says this in Moses' 5th book:.

Deuteronomy 2:23 "...until I shall pass over Jordan into the Land which The LORD our God giveth us"

Now, I flunked Geography, but if the slaves left Egypt and had to walk THROUGH Jordan to get to get to their promised land, wouldn't that put the land of milk & honey far away from where everyone is fighting today??

Thoughts welcome, as this has left me baffled!

I think that whole area may have been Jordan at one time. But who knows all these holy wars have changed the borders so much no one really knows.

Originally posted by Beavers
How can the biblical Israel be on the coast of the med when it says this in Moses' 5th book:.

Deuteronomy 2:23 "...until I shall pass over Jordan into the Land which The LORD our God giveth us"

Now, I flunked Geography, but if the slaves left Egypt and had to walk THROUGH Jordan to get to get to their promised land, wouldn't that put the land of milk & honey far away from where everyone is fighting today??

Thoughts welcome, as this has left me baffled!

edit on 17-11-2012 by Beavers because: (no reason given)

Good point. Going by what you have said then Israel should be in modern day Saudi Arabia.



Looks like the Zionist need to move but then again when did the Zionist pay attention to what a Jewish prophet (pbuh) said?

Originally posted by Beavers
How can the biblical Israel be on the coast of the med when it says this in Moses' 5th book:.

Deuteronomy 2:23 "...until I shall pass over Jordan into the Land which The LORD our God giveth us"

Now, I flunked Geography, but if the slaves left Egypt and had to walk THROUGH Jordan to get to get to their promised land, wouldn't that put the land of milk & honey far away from where everyone is fighting today??

Thoughts welcome, as this has left me baffled!

edit on 17-11-2012 by Beavers because: (no reason given)

No wonder they wandered around in the desert for 40 years...

ETA: In all seriousness, when I read your post, what came to mind was crossing the Jordan River. Usually when speaking of land, we say "pass through" --as in pass through Jordan. "Cross over Jordan" does sound like crossing a body of water (to me anyway.) Still, the Jordan River is... East of current Israel and North of Egypt... right? (sheesh, I didn't flunk Geography, they just didn't teach it worth a flip!)

What if Israel is really in Iran (Persia) and this whole time we are being slowly tricked into starting Armageddon?

Just what if?

This indicates the Jordan River, not what we today know as the country of Jordan. The scripture you are referring to is actually Deuteronomy 2:29 (Not 2:23).

"(As the children of Esau which dwell in Seir, and the Moabites which dwell in Ar, did unto me; ) until I shall pass over Jordan into the land which the Lord our God giveth us."

From what I understand, Moses is asking another king to allow him passage through his land and describing where he will stop. The river Jordan ran down the middle of the land that Moses was told to inhabit, so there is really no issue with geography here (just an issue with interpretation).

Originally posted by Beavers
How can the biblical Israel be on the coast of the med when it says this in Moses' 5th book:.

Deuteronomy 2:23 "...until I shall pass over Jordan into the Land which The LORD our God giveth us"

Now, I flunked Geography, but if the slaves left Egypt and had to walk THROUGH Jordan to get to get to their promised land, wouldn't that put the land of milk & honey far away from where everyone is fighting today??

Thoughts welcome, as this has left me baffled!

edit on 17-11-2012 by Beavers because: (no reason given)

Greater Israel. He gave them all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates and as far south as Jubal Al'Lawz
(Mt. Sinai) in northern Saudi Arabia which was ancient Midia back then, where Moses dwelt with his wife and father-in-law while he tended his sheep. Here's a map below:



Modern Israel is less than 15% of what Yahveh actually gave the decendants of Jacob so them asking for a tiny bit of what he gave them isn't the way people make it out to be today. If they wanted to push the issue, they'd go after all of Greater Israel. Question is who are the real jews and who are the Synogogue of Satan?

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
This indicates the Jordan River, not what we today know as the country of Jordan. The scripture you are referring to is actually Deuteronomy 2:29 (Not 2:23).

"(As the children of Esau which dwell in Seir, and the Moabites which dwell in Ar, did unto me; ) until I shall pass over Jordan into the land which the Lord our God giveth us."

From what I understand, Moses is asking another king to allow him passage through his land and describing where he will stop. The river Jordan ran down the middle of the land that Moses was told to inhabit, so there is really no issue with geography here (just an issue with interpretation).

edit on 17-11-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

Moses wanted to take the decendants of Jacob by the King's Highway, Edom and Moab refused to allow them passage.

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
What if Israel is really in Iran (Persia) and this whole time we are being slowly tricked into starting Armageddon?

Just what if?

Creepy thought. Creepy creepy thought!
Everybody sure is looking for a reason to take Iran, I'll give you that!

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
This indicates the Jordan River, not what we today know as the country of Jordan. The scripture you are referring to is actually Deuteronomy 2:29 (Not 2:23).

"(As the children of Esau which dwell in Seir, and the Moabites which dwell in Ar, did unto me; ) until I shall pass over Jordan into the land which the Lord our God giveth us."

From what I understand, Moses is asking another king to allow him passage through his land and describing where he will stop. The river Jordan ran down the middle of the land that Moses was told to inhabit, so there is really no issue with geography here (just an issue with interpretation).

edit on 17-11-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

Just curious... If they had to "...pass over Jordan into the land which the Lord our God giveth us" then then why would the promised land be on both sides of the Jordan River?

My understanding was that Moses was indicating where his sojourn would stop, not where boarders would be.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Modern Israel is less than 15% of what Yahveh actually gave the decendants of Jacob so them asking for a tiny bit of what he gave them isn't the way people make it out to be today.

I understand where you're coming from, yet it seems a bit unreasonable to expect another group of people, of a different religion, to forfeit land because the first group believes God gave it to them for all eternity.

Also, he did give it to them, then they displeased him, they lost it, and I don't know that he said they could have it back after WWII. In fact, in line with your question about 'who are the real Jews?" I'll just add that zionists in control of Israel are not genetically linked to the Jews of the old testament. (You can tell by looking at them!) They come from a line of people who converted to Judaism in the 700's.

Many devout Jewish people all over the world do not believe in the creation of the state of Israel.

This is part of the Mission Statement on the "True Torah Jews against Zionism" website:

TRUE TORAH JEWS AGAINST ZIONISM - OUR MISSION
Zionism began only about one hundred years ago and since that time Torah-true Jewry has steadfastly opposed the Zionist ideology. This struggle is rooted in two convictions:

1. Zionism, by advocating a political and military end to the Jewish exile, denies the very essence of our Diaspora existence. We are in exile by Divine Decree and may emerge from exile solely via Divine Redemption. All human efforts to alter a metaphysical reality are doomed to end in failure and bloodshed. History has clearly borne out this teaching.

2. Zionism has not only denied our fundamental belief in Heavenly Redemption it has also created a pseudo-Judaism which views the essence of our identity to be a secular nationalism. Accordingly, Zionism and the Israeli state have consistently endeavored, via persuasion and coercion, to replace a Divine and Torah centered understanding of our people hood with an armed materialism.

True Torah Jews is dedicated to informing the world and in particular the American public and politicians that all Jews do not support the ideology of the Zionist state called "Israel" which is diametrically opposite to the teachings of traditional Judaism.

We are concerned that the widespread misconception that all Jews support the zionist state and its actions endangers Jews worldwide.

We are NOT politically motivated. We are motivated by our concern for the peace and safety of all people throughout the world including those living in the Zionist state. We support and pray for peace for the people of the Zionist state but have no interest in and do not support the Zionist government.

True Torah Jews

Thought you might find that interesting, per your question at the end of your post! (I just stumbled on it in the last year myself.)

reply to post by new_here

Also, he did give it to them, then they displeased him, they lost it, and I don't know that he said they could have it back after WWII.

A door he opens, no man can close, a door he shuts no man can open. What he does, no man can undo, when he scattered them, no man could bring them back together, and when he cast them out of their lands, no man could give it back to them. They wouldn't be there if he didn't put them there. Yes they defiled the land but it was prophecied they would be redeemed and he would regather them from where he drove them. Their redemption has not yet come, thats still a ways off, but it will come. This crap going on in Israel is leading them towards saying "Baruch haba b'Shem Adonai".

They first originated from Babylon, the flood
destroyed their homeland.
However, in reality the holy-land was and should be
inhabited by christians, muslims and all Abrahamic faiths.
Anything less is NOT democratic but an apartheid .

____________________

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000



Moses wanted to take the decendants of Jacob by the King's Highway, Edom and Moab refused to allow them passage.

I'm sorry, and it's probably off topic, but that sounds like a code would for 'buggery'.

I'll come back to this with even more quotes from Deuteronomy soon, but all you need to do is read it for yourself to add even more to the mystery!!

It speaks of Jordan, the plains, owned by Jacob's (Israel) brother Easu who resides in this land and specifically says that the children of Israel shouldn't mess with anyone in Jordan as that land was promised to Easu's Nation, much the same as the land of milk and honey was being offered to Jacobs!

It also very clearly states that the land promised to the Jews is EAST of Jordan and in the direction of the rising sun.

The more I read the OT, i can't help but think Ancient Israel was more towards Iraq/Iran than where it is today.

Also someone mentioned the slaves coming from Babylon after the flood. I think it more likely that the flood was the melting of sea ice from the 12,000 BC end of the Ice age. This would explain why the same creation story was passed on to so many other historical books and, in my mind probably meant that the Red Sea was the flooded land forcing some of Noah's offspring to end up in Egypt and others (Enoch?) to end up in Ethiopia and the surrounding areas.

reply to post by buster2010


Yeah, Saudi Arabia or some of Today's Jordan or maybe Iraq? Nice picture!

reply to post by new_here



Ok, here's the river Jordan.

Deuteronomy 3:20 Until the Lord have given rest unto your brethren, as well as unto you, and until they also possess the land which the Lord your God hath given them beyond Jordan: and then shall ye return every man unto his possession, which I have given you.

Coming from Egypt, how can you travel beyond either the river or the plains and end up back on the coast of the med?

Unless they walked arse about face for 40 years and ended up on the wrong side of Jordan? (or the planet has changed the direction it spins in since then )

And they possessed his land, and the land of Og king of Bashan, two kings of the Amorites, which were on this side Jordan toward the sunrising

"These are the words Moses spoke to all Israel in the wilderness east of the Jordan" -Deuteronomy 1:1
"...until we cross the Jordan into the land the Lord our God is giving us." -Deuteronomy 2:29

At that point they were east of the river and they went west when they crossed it.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Yeah, 2:29, thanks

Yeah, he's asking the Sihon king if he can pass through his land to get to his own promised land, which is over Jordan. Be that the plains or the land.

The king says no tho, so:

2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:

Actually, that sounds just like the people that live there now