Where was Israel?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Beavers
How can the biblical Israel be on the coast of the med when it says this in Moses' 5th book:.

Deuteronomy 2:23 "...until I shall pass over Jordan into the Land which The LORD our God giveth us"

Now, I flunked Geography, but if the slaves left Egypt and had to walk THROUGH Jordan to get to get to their promised land, wouldn't that put the land of milk & honey far away from where everyone is fighting today??

Thoughts welcome, as this has left me baffled!

edit on 17-11-2012 by Beavers because: (no reason given)

Greater Israel. He gave them all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates and as far south as Jubal Al'Lawz
(Mt. Sinai) in northern Saudi Arabia which was ancient Midia back then, where Moses dwelt with his wife and father-in-law while he tended his sheep. Here's a map below:

Modern Israel is less than 15% of what Yahveh actually gave the decendants of Jacob so them asking for a tiny bit of what he gave them isn't the way people make it out to be today. If they wanted to push the issue, they'd go after all of Greater Israel. Question is who are the real jews and who are the Synogogue of Satan?

edit on 17-11-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

No, it's a huge issue because of the 70 weeks of years prophecy (if you really must use religion which is bias) says that they lost a lot of entitlement because he put them on probation for straying and asking for a King...but they did ok till he gave them that king and then they crucified him.

Rome was already burned with fire and Jerusalem already destroyed shortly after all this well within that same century. some prophecy, I believe has already come to pass. Israel lost it's status as a nation. It was to be almost entirely lost to the Philistines. When Rome destroyed Jerusalem they (in a very bad and unknowing way) were fulfilling a prophecy. It has not been Israel since it was renamed by roman as far as i know even though it has been under all sorts of control....mostly Arab and even Arab Christian for hundreds of years.

This isnt about the name or the people because all that has been constantly changing and shifting and there are nearly two thousand years of non Hebrew orientation in that area.

In the 19th century they started moving a lot of immigrants around and decided to bring back the Hebrew language.

I think the Church simply wanted to resurrect the temple as a Beacon for the remains of the empire expanding into the east.... what it has always tried to do.

these people of this generation who are so indoctrinated on this Jewish culture were done so artificially and purposefully. It is ingrained into them and these last generations of Jews have seen a lot of crap, a lot of war. They don't realize they were essentially bred into this with the help of the church for this next crusade. Their last crusade failed and so will this one.

They themselves are deceived... were deceived by the previous architects of history and it has a lot to do with the church and the crown.

They don't understand this has great meaning to many people.... mostly Muslims but if you look at the prophecies (because Christianity and Islam are splintered by the church from the same Abrahamic faith... and hopefully more and more Christians will realize this too even though they don't read their bibles because Greek and Hebrew poorly translated into the kings English makes for a ridiculous read in some cases... and they seem to have wanted it that way.... but we see that this is about more than a name of a country because of the hallmarks.... the way it is funded and propagated. It is HUGE, it is no small thing. It is the starting gate of WW3. They were bred and abused for it.

they have gone to great lengths with these crusades and they seem to coincide with certain time frames as they come into fruition and it's actually pretty startling.

I think some of these warlords are previous victims of mind control... if not still, but to most of the elite.... they see the horror of the old pattern and most are not religious so why keep playing along. Because it plays right into global power.... the stage is already set. They can play on religion all day, but even in ancient times it was all about the coinage... it always has been.

And now, as absurd as it all really is, many of these IDF soldiers are too brainwashed to realize they and the Palestinians are pawns in a game and that they are actually brothers.... and one brother needs to ask the other brother for forgiveness for stealing his land.

There is no evidence of peace talks. There is only evidence of brothers arguing over whose father is best and they are brothers the whole time.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Does he say that to Jacob or Abraham tho. If it was to Abraham, then he's not talking about the Nation of Israel, but the Nation of Abraham, which would include all of his offspring, who also have as much right to their own plot of land in that area.

Deuteronomy 2:

4 And command thou the people, saying, Ye are to pass through the coast of your brethren the children of Esau, which dwell in Seir; and they shall be afraid of you: take ye good heed unto yourselves therefore:

5 Meddle not with them; for I will not give you of their land, no, not so much as a foot breadth; because I have given mount Seir unto Esau for a possession.

Esau was the brother of Israel (aka Jacob, both Grandchildren to Abraham) and Mount Seir is well within the borders of your picture. There are a few other people's along the journey in this map who Moses is told he can't have too.

You've used IAMTHATIAM in your reference too, so I'm assuming he actually did say it Moses, rather than Abraham, which just makes the whole thing a massive contradiction . Where does your 'Nile and the Euphrates' quote come from again, just so I can reference it?

This is like arguing just where exactly did Harry Potter fight the mermaids in Hogwart's lake whilst using a Google map of Alnwick and Northern England.

Originally posted by The_Phantom
"These are the words Moses spoke to all Israel in the wilderness east of the Jordan" -Deuteronomy 1:1
"...until we cross the Jordan into the land the Lord our God is giving us." -Deuteronomy 2:29

At that point they were east of the river and they went west when they crossed it.

edit on 18-11-2012 by The_Phantom because: (no reason given)

This would make sense, but why didn't God just tell them to head north up the coast after parting the Red Sea for them.... why send them on a 40 year slaugh-tour through suadi arabia, jordan, modern day palestine, and seemingly, cities on either side of the Dead Sea to eventually need to head back west over Jordan again!

Originally posted by Beavers

Originally posted by The_Phantom
"These are the words Moses spoke to all Israel in the wilderness east of the Jordan" -Deuteronomy 1:1
"...until we cross the Jordan into the land the Lord our God is giving us." -Deuteronomy 2:29

At that point they were east of the river and they went west when they crossed it.

edit on 18-11-2012 by The_Phantom because: (no reason given)

This would make sense, but why didn't God just tell them to head north up the coast after parting the Red Sea for them.... why send them on a 40 year slaugh-tour through suadi arabia, jordan, modern day palestine, and seemingly, cities on either side of the Dead Sea to eventually need to head back west over Jordan again!

It's been awhile but if I remember it's because they were being really annoying, so he told them that they could walk around for awhile with the hopes that their kids wouldn't be as difficult to deal with as they were and maybe he might help them. So they traveled around and ended up over there.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
This is like arguing just where exactly did Harry Potter fight the mermaids in Hogwart's lake whilst using a Google map of Alnwick and Northern England.

I disagree.

We may never know if some of the outlandish claims of the OT are fiction or fact, but you only have to read Leviticus to know that is not only a historical account from Moses' perspective, but also that the teachings within it were vital to their survival and culture at the time and taken very seriously.

It's too boring to be 100% fiction

Originally posted by The_Phantom
It's been awhile but if I remember it's because they were being really annoying, so he told them that they could walk around for awhile with the hopes that their kids wouldn't be as difficult to deal with as they were and maybe he might help them. So they traveled around and ended up over there.

edit on 18-11-2012 by The_Phantom because: (no reason given)

This wouldn't surprise me, but it's very ironic

I think he tells them they'll never see the promised land for not believing that they'll ever get to the promised land.

What a tease...

Originally posted by Beavers
reply to post by new_here

 

Ok, here's the river Jordan.

Deuteronomy 3:20 Until the Lord have given rest unto your brethren, as well as unto you, and until they also possess the land which the Lord your God hath given them beyond Jordan: and then shall ye return every man unto his possession, which I have given you.

Coming from Egypt, how can you travel beyond either the river or the plains and end up back on the coast of the med?

Unless they walked arse about face for 40 years and ended up on the wrong side of Jordan? (or the planet has changed the direction it spins in since then

)

And they possessed his land, and the land of Og king of Bashan, two kings of the Amorites, which were on this side Jordan toward the sunrising

Oh my. What a conundrum! This is certainly a brain-twisting thread, and I am enjoying reading about the research of heads-together!

reply to post by Beavers


please explain the locations of herods palace and the great synagogue

Originally posted by Beavers
This would make sense, but why didn't God just tell them to head north up the coast after parting the Red Sea for them.... why send them on a 40 year slaugh-tour through suadi arabia, jordan, modern day palestine, and seemingly, cities on either side of the Dead Sea to eventually need to head back west over Jordan again!

The narrative in Numbers ch13 shows how they were supposed to be entering the land from the south, but they chickened out because they were afraid of the "giants" who were living there at the time. Hence the forty-year detour.

I thought I heard the garden of eden was somewhere in Iraq? You know, ancient sumeria?
www.asa3.org...

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Beavers

 

please explain the locations of herods palace and the great synagogue

I've not got to the sequel yet!

Sounds interesting tho, are you leading me somewhere?

In 1999, Russian archaeologists announced that they had successfully reconstructed a Khazarian vessel from the Don River region, revealing 4 inscriptions of the word "Israel" in Hebrew lettering. It is now the accepted opinion among most scholars in the field that the conversion of the Khazars to Judaism was widespread, and not limited merely to the royal house and nobility. Ibn al-Faqih, in fact, wrote "All of the Khazars are Jews." Christian of Stavelot wrote in 864 that "all of them profess the Jewish faith in its entirety."

Source



Before this, It was Egypt and Iran.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


I think you've summed this situation up pretty well. I already basically knew this but you explained it in an easy to understand way for those who may not know.

I especially liked how you described this:

"In the 19th century they started moving a lot of immigrants around and decided to bring back the Hebrew language.

these people of this generation who are so indoctrinated on this Jewish culture were done so artificially and purposefully. It is ingrained into them and these last generations of Jews have seen a lot of crap, a lot of war. They don't realize they were essentially bred into this with the help of the church for this next crusade. Their last crusade failed and so will this one.

They themselves are deceived... were deceived by the previous architects of history and it has a lot to do with the church and the crown.

They don't understand this has great meaning to many people.... mostly Muslims but if you look at the prophecies (because Christianity and Islam are splintered by the church from the same Abrahamic faith... and hopefully more and more Christians will realize this too even though they don't read their bibles because Greek and Hebrew poorly translated into the kings English makes for a ridiculous read in some cases... and they seem to have wanted it that way.... but we see that this is about more than a name of a country because of the hallmarks.... the way it is funded and propagated. It is HUGE, it is no small thing. It is the starting gate of WW3. They were bred and abused for it. "

and this:

"And now, as absurd as it all really is, many of these IDF soldiers are too brainwashed to realize they and the Palestinians are pawns in a game and that they are actually brothers.... and one brother needs to ask the other brother for forgiveness for stealing his land.

There is no evidence of peace talks. There is only evidence of brothers arguing over whose father is best and they are brothers the whole time. "

Originally posted by thesmokingman
I thought I heard the garden of eden was somewhere in Iraq? You know, ancient sumeria?
www.asa3.org...

edit on 18-11-2012 by thesmokingman because: (no reason given)

Isn't Sumer, that large block of land that almost looks like and upside down pyramid (currently owned by Egypt?) to the right of the Suez?

Fantastic read tho, thankyou. Especially this.

9. Six thousand years ago, the Persian Gulf may have been located as much as 150 miles inland from where it is today, and it might have been at this inland position where the four rivers confluenced near Eden.

Originally posted by Beavers
Isn't Sumer, that large block of land that almost looks like and upside down pyramid (currently owned by Egypt?) to the right of the Suez?

No, that's Sinai.
Sumer is the south end of Iraq.

And about this theory;

Originally posted by Beavers
9. Six thousand years ago, the Persian Gulf may have been located as much as 150 miles inland from where it is today, and it might have been at this inland position where the four rivers confluenced near Eden.

The four rivers which come out of Eden, in the Genesis story, have been identified with four rivers which flow out of the highlands at the north end of Iraq, just south of the Caucasus.
This is also the area where, according to modern pre-historians, people probably first learned how to cultivate plants instead of just picking wild ones. So that identification does make sense.

Wasn't that Land Palestine before Israel ?

Originally posted by jaytay
Wasn't that Land Palestine before Israel ?

No, it belonged to the Canaanites before they were slaughtered for it!

reply to post by NotAnAspie


Islam is not Abrahamic. Just because a book mentions Abraham using gross inaccurcies and outright fallacies doesn't mean it came from him, expecially if you consider Muhammad's track record.

Rome wanted the temple mount, the Popes always have. Julian the Apostate wanted to rebuild the temple in 363 A.D. and dedicate it to the pagan roman gods and the workers were consumed by fireballs when they tried to rebuild it and they stopped messing with it, considering the place cursed. Go look at the Arch of Titus, they carried off every artifact that was in the temple before it was destroyed and the Vatican has it all now, so it's no surprise the Arch of Titus survived the Dark Ages, it survived because it was meant to and the jews who want to rebuild the temple know this and Daniel 11:39 Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.

The Vatican is going to broker the 2 state deal to create 2 seperate states. The price the land will be divided for will be the temple artifacts Titus ran off with which are depicted on the Arch of Titus and he took the Ark of the Covenant, the Altar of Incense, the Table of Showbread and the Great Menorah.


The jews were supposed to crucify Jesus, it was a fulfillment of prophecy, the sacrifice of the Passover Lamb. They were merely playing a part God had already dictated to them looong before the event occurred, symbolized in the first Passover in Egypt and subsequent Shavuot at Mount Sinai 50 days after that which parellels Christ's crucifiction and Pentecost which, were the spiritual fulfillments of the prophecies.

Man didn't put the tribes of Judah and Benjamin back in Judea, God has already stated no man can undo what he does, and no one can open a door he shuts, or close a door he opens, it was prophecy being fulfilled when that happened. Jesus is bringing Ephraim (northern kingdom of Israel) back through christianity, as he was sent to the "Lost Sheep of Israel" that were assimilated by the gentiles as punishment for their idolatry. God caused the breaking of his staff called Bonds in Zechariah 11:14 which was symbolic for the breaking between judaism and christianity in the first century A.D.

Yes indeed we are living in prophecy, even right now prophecy is being fulfilled. There is no mistaking what is coming for those that know and understand. Isaiah 19 was fulfilled back in June, the stage is being set for the war in Ezekiel 38/39 which will put the Son of Perdition into power and kickstart Jacob's Trouble (Great Tribulation) which will then fulfill Hosea 5:15 that Jesus mentioned in Matthew 23:39 which hen brings on Zechariah 12:10.