What this new flare-up in the Middle East is all about. We're being thrown a curve people.

Originally posted by frazzle
The point you seem to be missing is the source of capital. Money has no preference as to how its used or what its called, it’s just a tool and can be used to create any form of government or commerce.

The source of capital has nothing to do with our original discussion.

No matter how hard you argue capitalism is the disease, 'banksters' are a symptom of that disease. Just like corporatism, outsourcing, wage slavery, recessions, unemployment, poverty etc.

Without capitalism there would be no 'banksters'. It takes a capitalist economy for a minority class to make enough wealth that it can dominate the economy, that is where the 'banksters' money comes from. The capitalist economy is the original source of the banksters capital.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by frazzle
The point you seem to be missing is the source of capital. Money has no preference as to how its used or what its called, it’s just a tool and can be used to create any form of government or commerce.

The source of capital has nothing to do with our original discussion.

No matter how hard you argue capitalism is the disease, 'banksters' are a symptom of that disease. Just like corporatism, outsourcing, wage slavery, recessions, unemployment, poverty etc.

Without capitalism there would be no 'banksters'. It takes a capitalist economy for a minority class to make enough wealth that it can dominate the economy, that is where the 'banksters' money comes from. The capitalist economy is the original source of the banksters capital.

Okay, back to the cliff, the BIS and austerity.

You have it backwards, without banksters there would be no crony capitalism or vulture capitalism. There is no such thing as pure capitalism in the world but it's what my earlier linked article about wampum describes, where the SOURCE of money is not centralized but is a manufacture of the people, by the people and for the people. And as noted in that article, the English occupiers destroyed it.

Same as "free trade" was destroyed. As long as the only countries allowed to play the game have to sign multiple free trade AGREEMENTS giving up their natural rights to trade freely, it isn't free. Right? Everybody else is SOL. And as long as there's an outfit known as the WTO calling the shots for the free traders, it isn't free. Trade, like money, has been centralized for the benefit of the corporations and bankers, and ultimately for the banker's bank (BIS).

People think the crony capitalism that's eating our lunch is a brand new thing in America. What a joke. Private central banking was the first block laid in the construction of the United State's financial system and if you think that's hooey, read about the founding of the first bank of the US by constitution signer and "founding father" Robert Morris. He was an aristocratic Englishman whose primary goal was self-aggrandizment, nothing to do with the best interests of the people.

Congress (with difficulty) agreed to permit a private company (Morris) to engage in commerce, but would never have tolerated the government doing so. When the goal is to transfer money from the private sector to the public one, the public insists on the ability to limit the amount. Otherwise, the transfer is a confiscation.

www.philadelphia-reflections.com...

And all those who think running a country without some kind of currency should read more about what happened to those who tried it before jumping on the bandwagon. It seldom works as advertised.

War Communism had six principles:

1) Production should be run by the state. Private ownership should be kept to the minimum. Private houses were to be confiscated by the state.

2) State control was to be granted over the labour of every citizen.

3) The state should produce everything in its own undertakings. The state tried to control the activities of millions of peasants.

4) Extreme centralisation was introduced. The economic life of the area controlled by the Bolsheviks was put into the hands of just a few organisations. The Commissariat of Agriculture controlled what the peasants did.

5) The state attempted to become the soul distributor as well as the sole producer. The Commissariats took what they needed to meet demands.

6) War Communism attempted to abolish money as a means of exchange. The Bolsheviks wanted to go over to a system of a natural economy in which all transactions were carried out in kind. Effectively, bartering would be introduced. By 1921, the value of the rouble had dropped massively and inflation had markedly increased.

www.historylearningsite.co.uk...

As I said before, none of the isms are designed to benefit the people. We need a new plan, Stan.

Protesting Spanish Cops: "Forgive Us For Not Arresting Those Truly Responsible For This Crisis: Bankers & Politicians"

www.zerohedge.com...

Originally posted by doug r
Protesting Spanish Cops: "Forgive Us For Not Arresting Those Truly Responsible For This Crisis: Bankers & Politicians"

www.zerohedge.com...

Well now that austerity is hitting THEM, they're not beating in the heads of others who were hit by austerity before them.

several thousand Spanish policemen took the streets of Madrid protesting the latest round of austerity, which included frozen pensions and the elimination of the Christmas bonus

And will they now start arresting those responsible?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07
Move to North Korea you will love it .

reply to post by ANOK


There will always be the Elite . You must not have anything or rely on other people to support you . Yes the Elite Banksters are having their way with us . I'm sure that you will be pleased when those same Banksters do take away our freedoms , put us under their form of socialism / communisum and tell you what and when you can do it . That is if you make it through the population reduction .

reply to post by SimonPeter


The meaning of what it takes to be "elite" must change.

reply to post by doug r


No one likes to hear it but , there is something much larger than mans plan going on . The Mark of the Beast in Revelations 13 verse 16 has to happen . It may sound far fetched but such an event could never happen as long as there is a physical currency world wide . Now with the Internet E- currency has almost taken over . The NWO would issue a world currency and you would have to have their permission to use it or starve .
We both know that the Global government is becoming reality and the global currency will follow quickly . A collapse of the worlds trust in fiat currencies would stop the economies world wide with mass chaos and starvation. The new Beast system would be welcomed in for sure then .
The 10 Kings who have not received their kingdoms as yet would give their power to the One (AC) . ARe those 10 Kings the 10 heads of the richest Jewish families who are the real Elite . They own the Federal Reserve and most likely the World Bank and IMF .
There is more going on than is evident to the world .
Now in the absence of better explanation the Biblical explanation stands out .

Originally posted by doug r
Protesting Spanish Cops: "Forgive Us For Not Arresting Those Truly Responsible For This Crisis: Bankers & Politicians"

www.zerohedge.com...

You cannot arrest someone unless first you have a warrant. Arresting someone on the spot means something happened in the eyes of the cops and arrests were necessary.

The state will never arrest the people who finance it unless they are pressured to the point where they have no choice. White collar crime is seldom punished because they people exert huge influence in society and can almost always buy their way out. Arresting people who steal candy or piss in the streets is much easier....

It is amazing how little respect the media and government have for the people anymore. Even dogs get better treatment. They assume most people are dumb, so feed them anything and all is well...

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Move to North Korea you will love it .

I don't support communism any more than I support capitalism. Both are extreme systems, but you need some first hand knowledge to know/acknowledge this. Western european nations such as UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Holland, Ireland, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Greece, etc have mixed economies which is what socialism is really all about.

Forget the ex-USSR which was really a hardline communist regime masquerading under the socialist banner. Ex-USSR is similar to North Korea, Cuba, ex-Yugoslavia, etc. Most communist nations, because they are dictatorships do not like to admit they are communist orientated. Communism has been a dirty word and rightfully so.

I much prefer a mixed-economy with a public central bank! The central bank determines what kind of system is truely in place and if some folks are leeching democracy and the general public.

www.publiccentralbank.com... We never had socialism in the true sense anywhere. That is why nations have to borrow constantly and the IMF imposes austerity measures. Sovereign nations DO NOT borrow money! They issue it themselves! And austrian economics is a pathetic joke, because you do not need to base currency on anything. You simply establish a value, called pegging, in relation to other currencies. No forex, no gdp, gnp, etc.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by doug r
Protesting Spanish Cops: "Forgive Us For Not Arresting Those Truly Responsible For This Crisis: Bankers & Politicians"

www.zerohedge.com...

You cannot arrest someone unless first you have a warrant. Arresting someone on the spot means something happened in the eyes of the cops and arrests were necessary.

The state will never arrest the people who finance it unless they are pressured to the point where they have no choice. White collar crime is seldom punished because they people exert huge influence in society and can almost always buy their way out. Arresting people who steal candy or piss in the streets is much easier....

It is amazing how little respect the media and government have for the people anymore. Even dogs get better treatment. They assume most people are dumb, so feed them anything and all is well...

I fully understand that such arrests need to be AUTHORIZED. Which is why I propose:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Bank of International Settlements yanks the pull string on Ben Bernanke and:

BERNANKE SAYS FISCAL CLIFF WOULD POSE `SUBSTANTIAL THREAT'

BERNANKE SAYS CONGRESS, WHITE HOUSE NEED TO AVERT FISCAL CLIFF
www.zerohedge.com...


BERNANKE SAYS FED ABILITY TO OFFSET HEADWINDS `NOT INFINITE'

BERNANKE SAYS FED DOESN'T HAVE TOOLS TO PREVENT GOING OFF CLIFF

"S&P futures fell around 8 points as he uttered these words but was rescued by some anxious BIS scrambling in EURUSD..."
www.zerohedge.com...

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by ANOK

 

There will always be the Elite . You must not have anything or rely on other people to support you . Yes the Elite Banksters are having their way with us . I'm sure that you will be pleased when those same Banksters do take away our freedoms , put us under their form of socialism / communisum and tell you what and when you can do it . That is if you make it through the population reduction .

Arrrghhh!

Banks are not going to 'put us under' communism or socialism, that is the last thing they want.

Socialism/communism is what WE want, the bankers want you to be a corporate slave, a profit maker for capitalists. Socialism, worker ownership, would mean no more bankers exploiting you. No more private property owners taking a portion of what you produce just because they supplied the property you work with.

The Baking system is a part of capitalism, capitalism can be totalitarian.

Capitalism, socialism/communism are economic systems and both can come with totalitarian state systems. Socialism/communism is the only economic system that can work without a state-system. The ONLY way we can ensure we don't have a totalitarian state system is if the workers own the means of production, in common, to ensure no minority group can use that ownership to exploit the rest of us.

The Elie only exists because we allow them, and finance them with our labour. WE have an economic system based on elitism.

Think about it!

reply to post by ANOK


You might want Socialism or Communism . You are one of the few helpless people that wants the Government to take care of you . The Banksters are leaning towards Feudalism . I like having private property . I have worked hard for what I have . You should really read about Agenda 21 and the NWO plan before you get started .I just can't see why anyone would want to be subject to the prison like atmosphere in Socialism that always moves to communism and always with heavy handed enforcers . Do you work for the NWO as a propaganda agent ?

"The Banksters are leaning towards Feudalism"

I agree 100%

The banks (led by the BIS) are taking away the sovereignty of the US (and Greece, and Portugal and Spain, etc.)

"Global central banks' (led by the BIS) assets now comprise at least a quarter of all global GDP"

www.scribd.com...

Assets = ownership.
At this point the banks have ownership claims on an amount equal to 1/4 of ALL global production.

The move to bring everyone under "austerity" is a move to secure another 25%. And with it, BIS dominance over Europe's and the US's sovereignty.

As shown in the following tables the US produces 25% of global GDP.

en.wikipedia.org...(nominal)

So RIGHT NOW, the banks own the equivalent of one year of EVERYBODY's labor in the US.

A single person or entity owning the product of a population's labor is feudalism.

Once they own over 1/2 of the WORLD's output, they are essentially a king.

Greater austerity coming to Europe and now a big, smelly heap of austerity coming to the US (under the guise of the contrived "fiscal cliff"/congressional compromise to "avoid" the "cliff"/engineered threat of Middle East war) may very well put the banks over that 50%.

Originally posted by doug r
A single person or entity owning the product of a population's labor is feudalism.

Of which capitalism is nothing more than an extension of...

1. The end of the High Middle Ages

"Capitalism was not, by any means, a "free market" evolving naturally or peacefully from the civilization of the high Middle Ages. As Oppenheimer argued, capitalism as a system of class exploitation was a direct successor to feudalism, and still displays the birth scars of its origins in late feudalism...

Feudal Origins of Capitalism

reply to post by doug r

So RIGHT NOW, the banks own the equivalent of one year of EVERYBODY's labor in the US.

Since the banks have been creating more debt than money to repay that debt for centuries already, it would take all of the land of all of the world, and all of the labor of all the world's people multiplied by who knows what number of years to repay the debt. All the while piling more new debt on top of what's already unpayable. It was designed that way.

Foreclosure on the US was declared in 1933 (bankruptcy) and as mentioned a few times already on this thread, possession by the world banks is quietly happening under the auspices of Agenda 21.

We don't have many choices here, but default on odious debt sounds reasonable to me. Too bad stupid people will always clamor for more public and private debt and tell us to worry about paying later (which we will).

reply to post by doug r


In Feudalism the people belongs to the person in charge . That King can do anything he wants to the people . They are essentially chattel and without rights .That King sets up his army of thugs to keep you inline . When we see those Black Body Armored DHS federal enforcers opposing our demonstrations with billyclubs it is the start of what is to come . Next give them live ammo and the order to use it anytime they want , then you are a slave to the governing body .